| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:12 - Mar 5 with 209 views | earlsgreenblue |
| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 09:40 - Mar 5 by Guthrum |
It would be great, but Russia, China and the USA would refuse to join and it would have no strength.
What the UN has done very successfully is provided a forum where great powers can continue talking without resorting to war, helped suppress a lot of conflicts between minor powers and clamped down on human rights abuses. Plus all the stuff the organisation does with refugees, children, culture, health, etc.
Where the UN breaks down - as all diplomacy will - is when the ruler of a major power decides they are going to get what they want by whatever means, including violence. The Kaiser in 1914 seeking to humiliate Russia and France, Hitler's territorial ambitions in the late 1930s. No diplomacy on Earth was going to stop them (enough people tried). |
Guthrum, keep up the good work, I enjoy reading your take on this.
I wonder what is the consensus on the likes of Finland & Sweden joining NATO, the reasons behind them not already being in it (cost) ?
Certainly would make sense for them to be in it, BUT, how would that be perceived in Putinograd as NATO gets even closer & probably why Putin decided to act in the way he has to the Ukraines attempts to join both NATO & the EU.
The question of how far will he go after the Ukraine is conquered is the overriding one, yes it will be protracted, but almost inevitable it will fall in time, Moldova next? [Post edited 5 Mar 2022 10:17]
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| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:13 - Mar 5 with 207 views | WD19 |
I think that bit of Russia needs to be militarily neutralised like Ukraine. Seems only fair. |  | | |
| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:29 - Mar 5 with 178 views | Guthrum |
| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 09:50 - Mar 5 by bluelagos |
I disagree with you Guthers.
I think we are witnessing the Russians attempt to split the country - so they can assimilate / take the Eastern portion and the remaining part stays as a Ukraine (of sorts), The East is where the majority of the industry lies plus it is ethnically more Russian that other parts.
To make that a success, then it would make sense for the Ukraine population to move westards out of the areas the Russians want.
And as you will be aware, the languages spoken by people in the area are by no means exact correlations with their ethnicity. Many Ukranians speak Russian and vice versa.
I think we are witnessing the start of ethnic cleansing of areas the Russians want - and the human escape routes facilitate that. Am not arguing against those safety routes - just pointing out my view that they assist in the future division of Ukraine. |
Mariupol (where the ceasefire to allow civilians to escape is - supposedly - in operation) is part of that primarily Russian east and voted for a pro-Moscow candidate in the 2019 election. |  |
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| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:35 - Mar 5 with 170 views | pointofblue |
| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:12 - Mar 5 by earlsgreenblue |
Guthrum, keep up the good work, I enjoy reading your take on this.
I wonder what is the consensus on the likes of Finland & Sweden joining NATO, the reasons behind them not already being in it (cost) ?
Certainly would make sense for them to be in it, BUT, how would that be perceived in Putinograd as NATO gets even closer & probably why Putin decided to act in the way he has to the Ukraines attempts to join both NATO & the EU.
The question of how far will he go after the Ukraine is conquered is the overriding one, yes it will be protracted, but almost inevitable it will fall in time, Moldova next? [Post edited 5 Mar 2022 10:17]
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Putin has already threatened Sweden and Finland with a Ukraine-like response should they look to join NATO. Historically, Finland has declared its intention to remain neutral. | |
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| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:43 - Mar 5 with 167 views | Guthrum |
| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:12 - Mar 5 by earlsgreenblue |
Guthrum, keep up the good work, I enjoy reading your take on this.
I wonder what is the consensus on the likes of Finland & Sweden joining NATO, the reasons behind them not already being in it (cost) ?
Certainly would make sense for them to be in it, BUT, how would that be perceived in Putinograd as NATO gets even closer & probably why Putin decided to act in the way he has to the Ukraines attempts to join both NATO & the EU.
The question of how far will he go after the Ukraine is conquered is the overriding one, yes it will be protracted, but almost inevitable it will fall in time, Moldova next? [Post edited 5 Mar 2022 10:17]
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Finland and Sweden have, up to now, always preferred to remain neutral, tho with close military ties to NATO (e.g. joint excercises). Polls on the subject have shown a consistent disinterest among the populace for joining - until the last few weeks. The alliance would welcome them on board, but it would certainly upset Russia.
Moldova would be the next logical target, tho they are overwhelmingly Romanian speakers (of which Moldovan is a notional dialect). | |
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| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:47 - Mar 5 with 162 views | bluelagos |
| Should the UN enforce protected zones in Ukraine? on 10:29 - Mar 5 by Guthrum |
Mariupol (where the ceasefire to allow civilians to escape is - supposedly - in operation) is part of that primarily Russian east and voted for a pro-Moscow candidate in the 2019 election. |
Humanitarian routes are being reported as currently being negotiated/agreed for evacuating civilians are from many areas, include safe routes from Kyiv.
I somehow doubt that if/when the Russian military gain control of Kyiv (or Mariupol) and then retain control - that ordinary Ukrainian refugees are going to flood back to life under Russian control. Rather more likely is that most will stay displaced people.
I think that is what is playing out in front of us, the evacuations of civilians can/will lead to these areas later being retained by the Russians as they become "Russianised" (my word).
Hope I am wrong. |  |
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