| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 11:04 - Mar 13 with 766 views | bluejacko |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 08:41 - Mar 13 by Churchman |
I’ll be very surprised if Russia doesn’t swallow Ukraine by surrender of straight conquest in the next week, ten days. It’s what Everybody wants, bar the poor Ukrainian people. The west, bar chucking a few toys over the fence, has not given much real support (no fly zone) and the sanctions won’t last much beyond the surrender document.
I’d love to see the transcript of Macron/German blokes chat with Putin. I’d wager most of it was about getting back to normal, Nord2, trade etc. The issue is what happens next with those on Putin’s target list, given Europe is pretty much defenceless. Will it accommodate Putin’s demands or will it try and re-arm and another Cold War break out?
I believe it’ll accommodate in the hope Putin dies of something, because there’s no appetite to face Putin’s Russia down by anybody and there isn’t the money. The situation is totally different to 1945-1989 not least because America is retreating on itself. The outlook for the countries on Russia’s new border will be bleak, but there will be no WW3. |
To swallow or conquer Ukraine will need the Ukrainians to stop fighting! That is not going to happen in the very near future, to hold Ukraine Putin would need the consent and support of the police and armed forces,again something he is not going to get so the bulk of his armed forces will be stuck fighting trying to keep control of a very hostile population!
How is Europe “defenceless”? You might have noticed an organisation called NATO! If push comes to shove it will react to any attack on one of its members.
As for America they are deploying troops to Poland as we speak! [Post edited 13 Mar 2022 12:37]
|  | |  |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 14:06 - Mar 13 with 717 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 11:04 - Mar 13 by bluejacko |
To swallow or conquer Ukraine will need the Ukrainians to stop fighting! That is not going to happen in the very near future, to hold Ukraine Putin would need the consent and support of the police and armed forces,again something he is not going to get so the bulk of his armed forces will be stuck fighting trying to keep control of a very hostile population!
How is Europe “defenceless”? You might have noticed an organisation called NATO! If push comes to shove it will react to any attack on one of its members.
As for America they are deploying troops to Poland as we speak! [Post edited 13 Mar 2022 12:37]
|
Indeed. Also, a no fly zone isn't going to be much help as the war isn't being fought in the air. All a no fly zone does is bring NATO properly into it and have us tumbling towards WW3.
Sorry, Churchers, but you've got quite a lot wrong there IMO. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:01 - Mar 13 with 673 views | Churchman |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 09:18 - Mar 13 by solomon |
This is the real dilemma though, if putins gets away with this, anything, absolutely anything is fair game. Unleashing chemical weapons and nerve agents in the streets of nations that harbour his enemies or critics, downing airliners that cross borders or stray close to conflict zones he’s done all of this before the events we now witness,Appeasing men like Putin is equally as dangerous as fighting him. |
Agree entirely with your post. Appeasement never works. He is a beast and has to be fought in my view, but not now. I believe he will succeed in Ukraine. He will have his victory, sadly.
The rest of Europe isn’t strong enough politically, militarily or economically at the moment and what happens next will be determined by what it has done by the time Putin wants to make his next move. |  | | |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:05 - Mar 13 with 661 views | jeera |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:01 - Mar 13 by Churchman |
Agree entirely with your post. Appeasement never works. He is a beast and has to be fought in my view, but not now. I believe he will succeed in Ukraine. He will have his victory, sadly.
The rest of Europe isn’t strong enough politically, militarily or economically at the moment and what happens next will be determined by what it has done by the time Putin wants to make his next move. |
Sanctions have got to remain in place long-term, but as has already been said, we know they won't.
Whilst our first priority is money nothing else in this world will get resolved. |  |
| |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:09 - Mar 13 with 667 views | blueasfook |
It's the media whipping up fear. Was the same during Covid pandemic. The media love fear mongering. Some worse than others. Grauniad have WW3 starting next week. BBC spurting out "Breaking News" alerts every time a shell gets fired. Daily Mail have turned Putin into Hitler.
Tune out, watch Netflix, listen to some good albums, whatever. |  |
| |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:27 - Mar 13 with 635 views | bluejacko |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:01 - Mar 13 by Churchman |
Agree entirely with your post. Appeasement never works. He is a beast and has to be fought in my view, but not now. I believe he will succeed in Ukraine. He will have his victory, sadly.
The rest of Europe isn’t strong enough politically, militarily or economically at the moment and what happens next will be determined by what it has done by the time Putin wants to make his next move. |
I have to ask why you insist we are not strong enough militarily?
At the moment Russian forces are being held by a mainly infantry orientated army,against NATO they would be facing a combined army of nations that practice fully combined operations! Just imagine what the carnage would actually be if Ukraine had a functioning airforce and attack helicopters!
The Russians have now resorted to type and are using their artillery to hammer defenceless cities as they can’t make progress on the ground. | | | |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 17:34 - Mar 13 with 606 views | Churchman |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:27 - Mar 13 by bluejacko |
I have to ask why you insist we are not strong enough militarily?
At the moment Russian forces are being held by a mainly infantry orientated army,against NATO they would be facing a combined army of nations that practice fully combined operations! Just imagine what the carnage would actually be if Ukraine had a functioning airforce and attack helicopters!
The Russians have now resorted to type and are using their artillery to hammer defenceless cities as they can’t make progress on the ground. |
From Forces.net
U.K. v Russia
https://www.forces.net/news/russia-vs-britain-how-do-militaries-stack
France v Russia
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=russia&
Basically weight of numbers. Cuts for years have eroded U.K. capability. It’s army is equipped with second rank Challenger 2 tanks and old artillery with a lack of logistical support for its 86k personnel (to be cut by 10k). Strike aircraft are 18% in number compared to 1989. Qualitatively the Typhoon (137 of those) is ageing but good, the 21 F35s are top line.
France has marginally larger armed forces than the U.K. and has the Rafale which is around Typhoon performance level and they have 237 of those, but enough missiles for one sortie. The rest of European defence really doesn’t add up to much. Germany had four operational Typhoons two years ago, according to German media. That was it.
Qualitatively, the U.K. and I suspect France is far better than Russia, not least because Russia uses conscripts. Some of the U.K. (and France I suspect) people and kit is truly exceptional but that’s not for discussion.
However it’s true that for many good reasons, military has been way down the priority list for years and it’ll take time to remedy that. The US, upon which NATO is totally reliant, spends 3.7% GDP on defence, U.K. 2%, France 2.07%, Germany 1.4%, Italy 1.5%.
This is why I think Europe without full US support, is not nearly strong enough. With US, Russia wouldn’t survive in the air or any other way without using nuclear. It’s all a question as to whether Europe continues to depend on US or as I’d like to see starts to depend on itself - just my opinion, obviously. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 18:16 - Mar 13 with 582 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:09 - Mar 13 by blueasfook |
It's the media whipping up fear. Was the same during Covid pandemic. The media love fear mongering. Some worse than others. Grauniad have WW3 starting next week. BBC spurting out "Breaking News" alerts every time a shell gets fired. Daily Mail have turned Putin into Hitler.
Tune out, watch Netflix, listen to some good albums, whatever. |
....get some brown, it will all be fine! |  |
| |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 18:48 - Mar 13 with 535 views | bluejacko |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 17:34 - Mar 13 by Churchman |
From Forces.net
U.K. v Russia
https://www.forces.net/news/russia-vs-britain-how-do-militaries-stack
France v Russia
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=russia&
Basically weight of numbers. Cuts for years have eroded U.K. capability. It’s army is equipped with second rank Challenger 2 tanks and old artillery with a lack of logistical support for its 86k personnel (to be cut by 10k). Strike aircraft are 18% in number compared to 1989. Qualitatively the Typhoon (137 of those) is ageing but good, the 21 F35s are top line.
France has marginally larger armed forces than the U.K. and has the Rafale which is around Typhoon performance level and they have 237 of those, but enough missiles for one sortie. The rest of European defence really doesn’t add up to much. Germany had four operational Typhoons two years ago, according to German media. That was it.
Qualitatively, the U.K. and I suspect France is far better than Russia, not least because Russia uses conscripts. Some of the U.K. (and France I suspect) people and kit is truly exceptional but that’s not for discussion.
However it’s true that for many good reasons, military has been way down the priority list for years and it’ll take time to remedy that. The US, upon which NATO is totally reliant, spends 3.7% GDP on defence, U.K. 2%, France 2.07%, Germany 1.4%, Italy 1.5%.
This is why I think Europe without full US support, is not nearly strong enough. With US, Russia wouldn’t survive in the air or any other way without using nuclear. It’s all a question as to whether Europe continues to depend on US or as I’d like to see starts to depend on itself - just my opinion, obviously. |
Well how is Putin going to ‘control’ the Ukraine AND take on NATO? You can post stats all you like when it comes down to the dirty stuff it is being proven in Ukraine Russians are not 10ft tall!
A NATO battle group in defence will be an entirely different proposition to what the Ukrainians are able to muster! They are well used to combined operations unlike the Russians who have not had any experience since WW2 and now it is showing.
As I have said Putin can’t have his troops in two places at the same time!
You are also comparing UK and France against Russia on their own that’s not how it works! You attack one NATO country you attack them all. [Post edited 13 Mar 2022 18:49]
| | | |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 19:12 - Mar 13 with 512 views | DeepBlueSea |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 16:27 - Mar 13 by bluejacko |
I have to ask why you insist we are not strong enough militarily?
At the moment Russian forces are being held by a mainly infantry orientated army,against NATO they would be facing a combined army of nations that practice fully combined operations! Just imagine what the carnage would actually be if Ukraine had a functioning airforce and attack helicopters!
The Russians have now resorted to type and are using their artillery to hammer defenceless cities as they can’t make progress on the ground. |
One of the few positives of this situation is that it has shown what the Russian army is made of. I suspect they’ll still win the war (if not the peace) but Putin has talked time and again about how modern and organised his army has been since the debacles in Afghanistan and Chechnya, and that’s looking a lot like hubris now. | | | |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 19:18 - Mar 13 with 499 views | DeepBlueSea |
| I'm not afraid to admit ..... on 18:48 - Mar 13 by bluejacko |
Well how is Putin going to ‘control’ the Ukraine AND take on NATO? You can post stats all you like when it comes down to the dirty stuff it is being proven in Ukraine Russians are not 10ft tall!
A NATO battle group in defence will be an entirely different proposition to what the Ukrainians are able to muster! They are well used to combined operations unlike the Russians who have not had any experience since WW2 and now it is showing.
As I have said Putin can’t have his troops in two places at the same time!
You are also comparing UK and France against Russia on their own that’s not how it works! You attack one NATO country you attack them all. [Post edited 13 Mar 2022 18:49]
|
It’s worth noting that Russia has committed virtually all its land forces to Ukraine. I don’t think they’d be capable of fighting another war until they extricate themselves from this mess. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
