| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling 20:34 - Sep 13 with 4146 views | SitfcB |
Your stance on the selling of tickets via this forum? Will it now change?
Do we have to be a bit more wink wink nudge nudge.
No one has ever sold for more than face value on here, and all usually very fair, sometimes given away or sold cheaper than face value.
It’s been a bit more ‘loud’ so far this season but you will genuinely get the few pop up when people can’t make a game after thinking they could. |  |
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| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling on 08:33 - Sep 14 with 590 views | HighgateBlue |
| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling on 22:22 - Sep 13 by Daninthecampo |
Theoretically you can gift the ticket to a fellow fan and they're so happy they buy you all the match day beers etc ,all legal |
It's very unlikely that any prosecution would result from this kind of friendly behaviour, but this is dubious legal advice for two reasons:
(i) s. 166(1)(b) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 makes it an offence "otherwise to dispose of such a ticket to another person". So it's not just sale that's an offence (if you're an unauthorised person); and
(ii) the 2006 changes in the law were to get round precisely this sort of supposedly clever logic - touts would offer something of low value at inflated prices (such as a pen), and give a ticket free with it. Now, s. 166(2)(aa)(v) means that the following is an offence: "giving a ticket to a person who pays or agrees to pay for some other goods or services or offering to do so". So if it is clear that the arrangement was that you'd get a couple of drinks in return, that would fall foul of s. 266(2)(aa)(v).
But yeah, one would hope the police would have better things to do, and to be fair, I've not heard of well-meaning fans ever being prosecuted when they have not made a profit. I would not have made the 2000 playoff final if it weren't for a well-meaning fan disposing of his ticket at face value, so I am very much in favour of such activity continuing. Maybe the ITFC touting policy will address this. (See my post elsewhere on the point). |  | | |
| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling on 08:47 - Sep 14 with 572 views | BlueDouglas |
Isn't the issue people on Twitter buying tickets to away games then selling them for profit and points before the tickets open up to general sale? Completely different to people passing on a season ticket through TWTD because they don't want to see empty seats at PR! |  | | |
| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling on 08:48 - Sep 14 with 567 views | HighgateBlue |
| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling on 21:56 - Sep 13 by PhilTWTD |
I think that's probably right. The law is there to address an issue which isn't Fan B borrowing Fan A's ticket - even if technically illegal, there's little chance of prosecution - but wider abuse. However, presumably that would be ruled out as a result of the club's new policy, which is definitely required given the current situation.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I think it's worth being quite clear as to what the law is (although I do appreciate that in the real world the chances of an individual decent fan being prosecuted are, one would hope, low).
Under s. 166(1) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (which was tightened up to avoid certain loopholes in 2006), it is an offence for an "unauthorised person" to sell (s. 166(1)(a)) or otherwise dispose of (s. 166(1)(b)) a ticket to a designated football match.
I'm not really sure why it is necessary to have two separate offences of selling AND otherwise disposing, as they both carry the same maximum penalty. In any event, selling is deemed to include a number of different activities, set out at s. 166(2)(aa):
"(aa)a reference to selling a ticket includes a reference to—
(i)offering to sell a ticket;
(ii)exposing a ticket for sale;
(iii)making a ticket available for sale by another;
(iv)advertising that a ticket is available for purchase; and
(v)giving a ticket to a person who pays or agrees to pay for some other goods or services or offering to do so."
The last of those was to get round the argument used by touts who would give tickets away for "Free" along with the sale of a valueless item for an inflated price.
Now, by s. 166(2)(a), a person is “unauthorised” unless he is "authorised in writing to sell or otherwise dispose of tickets for the match by the organisers of the match."
I would suspect that the organisers of the match would be the home team, although I am not 100% on that. If that is the case, the place where "common sense" comes into all of this is that the home team can, in writing, set out who can dispose of tickets, and how.
There are two potential places where this has been/will be done:
(1) in any existing terms and conditions. I believe, having looked this up a little while ago, that the terms and conditions of ITFC season tickets expressly allow ST holders to pass their ticket for a particular match to a friend (not certain of the wording). It seems to me that in respect of that transaction, the ST would therefore NOT be an unauthorised person, and the disposing would be lawful. If the terms and conditions forbid resale, and the ST holder asks for payment, then presumably the ST holder would then fall foul of s. 166(1) as they would be an unauthorised person in respect of that transaction. I do not know what the terms and conditions of one-off tickets say. I doubt they would include a similar provision, but I don't know; and
(ii) Town's forthcoming touting policy could in theory include provisions expressly allowing fans to pass on tickets at face value, or for free, possibly by using certain apps, or registering certain details. That would then mean that if all terms are correctly followed, the reseller/disposer would not be unauthorised, and would not be committing an offence.
These laws look and feel highly draconian, but do often leave open the possibility for clubs to render them less so. Pitch invasions are another case in point - they are not a criminal offence if you are a person who has "lawful authority", which would include (I assume) the goalkeeping coach, or someone who has been expressly told they can go on the pitch - Bluey, child mascot, cheerleaders, bloke trying to kick a ball into a car boot at half time, or even fans en masse at the end of the season IF the club has authorised it. As regards the pitch invasion at the end of the season, the club decided not to authorise it (unsurprisingly), and expressly said it would not be welcome. | | | |
| Phil/Gav - Ticket selling on 08:52 - Sep 14 with 563 views | DJR |
Interesting to note that Phil's report of what was said last night included a reference to season tickets.
However, the terms and conditions for season tickets on the website states the following.
"The Club permits the holder of this Season Ticket card to allow another supporter to use this card and its associated seat if they are unable to attend a match. The other supporter using this card must be of the same price band category as the holder of the card."
Five of us have a season ticket, and on the occasions when one of us can't make it, that person offers his card to a particular friend who isn't able to go all games. That friend, if able to go, then gives one of us £20 for the privilege. But if he doesn't go the seat remains vacant.
As this is all done through word of mouth or WhatsApp, I can't really see a problem. And we would certainly never think about trying to sell the card to the game to someone we don't know.
Hopefully, whatever happens, this practice will be allowed to continue, and in any event, it would not to me seem possible to change the terms and conditions for this season because that was the basis on which season tickets for this season were sold. [Post edited 14 Sep 2023 9:21]
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