| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... 06:32 - Jun 2 with 3783 views | Kropotkin123 |
Most elections I come on here and give my two cents worth regarding democracy in the UK. Specifically taking votes from one party and adding it to another. It is a system that favours the leading party, but often the second place gains at a slightly lesser rate.
This time I come with the same warnings, but also some simpler solutions than what’s been suggested before.
Before we get into that. I want to say that first past the post served us well for a time. I’ve gone back and assessed the last 50 elections and here is what I found out. The last time the leading party did not steal votes from another party was in 1910. Before then it was pretty common fo rvotes not to be stolen. Indeed 7 elections in a row, no votes were stolen by the main party.
In 1874 the Conservative government of Benjamin Disraeli won the election as were under-represented by 1.40. So for every one person representing them in parliament, they should have had 1.40. Nowadays it has flipped on its head, the ruling parties have inflated majorities. Tony Blair’s 2005 election victory was the worst offender. They had a misrepresentation of 0.64. So for every 1 MP, they should have had 0.64. You can see these peaks and troughs represented clearly on this graph. 1 is fair.
The small numbers can give a distorted view though, that it isn’t that bad. But we can be talking up to 6.3m people’s votes being unjustly transferred to the ruling party, out of 31m voters. It is theft, and it translates into a mandate that these 6.3m people did not give.
Here’s the full list:
We have a strong liberal tradition in this country that goes back to the days of John Locke. Modern liberal thought is being suppressed. When Tony Blair came to power in 2005 he got 55% of the seats, with 35% of the vote! The lib Dems got 9% of the seats, from 22% of the vote.
It is the same today. At the last election the Lib Dems got 11 seats, when they should have had 75. The Green Party got one seat, when they should have been represented by 17.
We need a shake up in politics, but we are likely to see the same pattern of over-representation at the next election.
A simple fix would be to weight the MPs votes. So, using the last election as an example, when the Green MP votes, they should not vote with the power of 1 point, they vote with the power of 16.97 points. When a Conservative MP votes, they should not vote with the power of 1 point, but with the power of 0.78 points. This brings the MPs representative power back into proportion with the votes. It will make people think more about voting for the people they want to be running the country and representing them.
As I’ve said in years gone by, I do not give this opinion as a request. I do not recognise the leading party’s right to take away the vote from people and unjustly add it to their pile.
EDIT: If you'd prefer to look at the spreadsheets directly, DM me and I'll link you. [Post edited 2 Jun 2024 6:35]
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 16:10 - Jun 3 with 646 views | Whos_blue |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 15:13 - Jun 3 by DJR |
Just received an email from the Electoral Reform Society which asked me to put in my postcode so I could find out when my seat last changed hands.
It was 114 years ago, 1910, when the seat changed from Liberal to Conservative.
There's no democracy where I live.
[Post edited 3 Jun 2024 15:46]
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I tried to search for the historical results for my own constituency. I'm not sure it's been anything other than tory.
Can you share the link? Be interesting to see. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 16:20 - Jun 3 with 623 views | DJR |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 16:10 - Jun 3 by Whos_blue |
I tried to search for the historical results for my own constituency. I'm not sure it's been anything other than tory.
Can you share the link? Be interesting to see. |
It's here.
https://action.electoral-reform.org.uk/page/150440/action/1?utm_medium=email& |  | | |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 16:25 - Jun 3 with 607 views | Whos_blue |
Just a mere 93 years of tory rule!
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| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 17:05 - Jun 3 with 590 views | Parsley |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 16:06 - Jun 2 by You_Bloo_Right |
Italy has a mixed system with 37% of seats elected via FPTP and the remainder allocated via a Party List system.
As for the inevitable strengthening of extremists, we have seen that in the Conservative party for the last 10 years. UKIP used to be outside the Tory tent, p1ssing in. Since 2015 they have been in the tent and dumping on the country. That 80 seat majority should have been the ultimate in stability but far from it.
IMO STV and a little more honesty would take us forward, at least electorally. |
Similar to the London Assembly elections although I think this is weighted the other way around. I think this is a good compromise at it still gives people a 'local' MP (although would have to cover a wider constituency), but also gives some weighting to parties that would otherwise be underrepresented.
My concern with the vote weighting suggested in the OP would be that is that it would allow small parties to effectively become kingmakers. E.g. if one Green MP's vote was worth 17 that could make a huge difference in a tight vote. Tight votes would be more common as it would be harder for a party to form a majority government if their say 50%+ of MPs was only worth 35% of the votes.
Generally I'm not against coalition governments as (maybe being a bit idealistic) it should promote more collaboration, cross-party agreements and compromise meaning that decisions are made to benefit more people rather than just one parties vote-base. |  | | |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 17:11 - Jun 3 with 562 views | Radlett_blue |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 17:05 - Jun 3 by Parsley |
Similar to the London Assembly elections although I think this is weighted the other way around. I think this is a good compromise at it still gives people a 'local' MP (although would have to cover a wider constituency), but also gives some weighting to parties that would otherwise be underrepresented.
My concern with the vote weighting suggested in the OP would be that is that it would allow small parties to effectively become kingmakers. E.g. if one Green MP's vote was worth 17 that could make a huge difference in a tight vote. Tight votes would be more common as it would be harder for a party to form a majority government if their say 50%+ of MPs was only worth 35% of the votes.
Generally I'm not against coalition governments as (maybe being a bit idealistic) it should promote more collaboration, cross-party agreements and compromise meaning that decisions are made to benefit more people rather than just one parties vote-base. |
Having weighted voting rights in the chamber is a terrible, near unworkable, undemocratic idea. If we think PR is going to produce better government than FPTP, do it properly (while realising that 650 MPs is an absurdly high number for any country).
This should be done in conjunction with reform of the ghastly, corrupt House of Lords. Unfortunately, no PM is likely to undertake this as they love the patronage & the freedom to change the composition of the HoL to suit them. I would support an elected Lords, but then it would want more power to block legislation, so we could face US style gridlock. There is also the point that SOME members of the HoL do have useful specialist expertise. |  |
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 19:09 - Jun 3 with 536 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 17:11 - Jun 3 by Radlett_blue |
Having weighted voting rights in the chamber is a terrible, near unworkable, undemocratic idea. If we think PR is going to produce better government than FPTP, do it properly (while realising that 650 MPs is an absurdly high number for any country).
This should be done in conjunction with reform of the ghastly, corrupt House of Lords. Unfortunately, no PM is likely to undertake this as they love the patronage & the freedom to change the composition of the HoL to suit them. I would support an elected Lords, but then it would want more power to block legislation, so we could face US style gridlock. There is also the point that SOME members of the HoL do have useful specialist expertise. |
It is easily workable and more democratic than millions of people having their votes stolen for over 100 years.
I don't disagree with your suggestions. [Post edited 3 Jun 2024 19:10]
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| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 19:25 - Jun 3 with 519 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 16:25 - Jun 3 by Whos_blue |
Just a mere 93 years of tory rule!
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Last time we had the Tories was 2015, with a whopping majority of 27. That must have been one of the most marginal seats in the country. I'm in Gower.
Labour took it back in 2017 and retained in 2019. We see through hte bullsh*t here.
Actually we don't - we're surrounded by Tories where I am. But we have a split constituency. Rural gower where I am is as Tory as feck, with lots of ex-City types retiring here, but thankfully there's a small town in the north of the constituency that's very traditionally working class Welsh Labour and their numbers carry the result.
Surprisingly, the change to the constituency boundaries is looking likely to help Labour. I wasn't expecting that. |  |
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 08:37 - Jun 4 with 470 views | DJR |
The latest You Gov MRP poll is pretty comprehensive and gives a projected share of the vote for every constituency.
Here is a link to the data, which might help you make up your mind if you live in a constituency like mine where I wasn't sure who would be the main challenger to the Tories.
https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fygo-assets-websi | | | |
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| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 08:59 - Jun 4 with 445 views | DJR |
| Apoliticals! Ye be warned, fer there be politics lurkin' within this thread... on 08:37 - Jun 4 by DJR |
The latest You Gov MRP poll is pretty comprehensive and gives a projected share of the vote for every constituency.
Here is a link to the data, which might help you make up your mind if you live in a constituency like mine where I wasn't sure who would be the main challenger to the Tories.
https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fygo-assets-websi |
Nice to see the five Liverpool constituencies in none of which the Tories get more than 5% of the vote.
And Labour are on course to win back Ipswich with 51% of the vote compared to 26% for the Tories. | | | |
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