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KM's comments re Enciso: 'For Ipswich Town alone for a football club, certainly in my time, the first non-native English speaker that we’ve had.'
This isn't technically true, is it?
Al Hamadi, Tuanzebe, Muric, Cajuste all have native languages which aren't English. I know AAH and Tuanzebe came to the UK at a very early age and speak fluently. Sarmiento falls into the same boat, although he was as old as 7 before coming to the UK.
I know what KM means, though. Native level is another thing; but even then, I think it's difficult (impossible?) for a non-native to ever have true 'native level' in whatever language, as there will always be those very subtle nuances that you can only 'get' instinctively and not through learning. My girlfriend is German, and whilst you'd have to listen very closely to realise (she understands 99% and has an almost fully 'neutral' accent), there are small things which give it away. She also speaks better, more fluent and eloquent English than many British people do, but still isn't a 'native speaker'.
And at what point does someone qualify as a true 'native speaker'? Is it by birth, or does family heritage play a part? Massimo Luongo, for example, was born in Australia but to parents of Italian and Indonesian origin. Is he a native English speaker, or technically a native Italian and/or Indonesian speaker? Although perhaps he speaks neither of those languages.
This thread makes me think of the scene in Inglorious Basterds where, after being challenged by a rank-and-file soldier over his 'unusual' accent, Michael Fassbender's character gives himself away as a British spy (albeit through his body language rather than spoken language):
Technically Leadbetter, Wark, Burley, Brazil, Mathie, Berra, Lambert, and co. all spoke Scots, which is technically a different language ;)
Not necessarily, it's quite a rigorous debate and I know a long time Scots resident and journalist who will argue that Scots English is a dialect. And you'd have tae be up at keek'o'dee to catch him oot...
Not necessarily, it's quite a rigorous debate and I know a long time Scots resident and journalist who will argue that Scots English is a dialect. And you'd have tae be up at keek'o'dee to catch him oot...
It's a language and pretty close to Flemish, introduced in its original form by Germanic settlers in the east of Scotland around Edinburgh in the 5th century when it was part of Bernicia. It's recognised as an official language.
It's a language and pretty close to Flemish, introduced in its original form by Germanic settlers in the east of Scotland around Edinburgh in the 5th century when it was part of Bernicia. It's recognised as an official language.
Is that Doric you are talking about ? A language that was common in Aberdeenshire a couple of centuries ago. And distinct from Scots Gaelic (of which there was a Perthshire variety that died out around seventy five years ago.) I have met a couple of South Side Glaswegians who I couldn't understand at all but talking to other Scots I found they also had no understanding and it was put down to the roughest accents imaginable...
I think the true test is what language you swear in. My partner is Dutch and has lived in England for 20 years and speaks excellent English - but still swears in Dutch or more specifically in Limburgse, her local dialect.
I think the true test is what language you swear in. My partner is Dutch and has lived in England for 20 years and speaks excellent English - but still swears in Dutch or more specifically in Limburgse, her local dialect.
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