| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. 16:47 - Sep 16 with 7132 views | noggin |
Brace yourselves for the “We can’t afford it” overreaction. |  |
| |  |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 23:17 - Sep 17 with 520 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 10:42 - Sep 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
The size of the economy is irrelevant - it doesn’t make us wealthy, our per capita wealth has flatlined or fallen for over a decade. We are behind our European peers in many metrics. India has a huge economy- it certainly isn’t wealthy. The £7bn you reference is peanuts compared to the £140bn (and rising) annual cost of the state pension. The Europeans are also reviewing their pension ages and costs because it’s isn’t affordable (civil servant pensions alone have billions in unfunded liabilities).
Again - no one here has suggested current pensioners should be penalised, but the OBR and virtually every forecasting institution agrees the current Ponzi scheme is unsustainable. |
I find it strange that we’ve paid the banks and energy providers hundreds of billions of pounds in the last couple of years but when anyone suggests we pay a little bit extra on ourselves it’s suddenly not possible. It doesn’t feel like the balance is right. |  |
| |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 06:03 - Sep 18 with 312 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 23:17 - Sep 17 by Swansea_Blue |
I find it strange that we’ve paid the banks and energy providers hundreds of billions of pounds in the last couple of years but when anyone suggests we pay a little bit extra on ourselves it’s suddenly not possible. It doesn’t feel like the balance is right. |
Only because for the last 15 years or so successive governments have been completely incompetent. We’ve borrowed record amounts and spaffed it away on dodgy contracts, useless PPE, fraudulent furlough claims which were never pursued, hospitals that were never used, and borrowed to pay for the borrowing we borrowed. We are paying more on borrowing than our education system, years to see a surgeon* and an army that could fit in Wembley. Germany has a hugely lower debt to gdp ratio thanks to coherent economic policy over decades and still went through COVID, andddd was harder hit by the energy crisis (due to reliance on Russian gas).
I just don’t see how the current pension system is sustainable with the aging population, and that’s wider recognised by the pensions industry, OBR, IMF etc. I would rather we shift pensions to private funds and the state concentrate on improving public services. Paying current pensioners through current tax payers is insane, it’s going to require ever more tax payers and flies in the face of sustainablity. I think this is what is happening gradually, but I’d add we need better healthcare so that more people can work, and work for longer (if they choose).
*on a lighter note perhaps the plan is to kill everyone off before they reach retirement… [Post edited 18 Sep 6:24]
|  | | |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 08:38 - Sep 18 with 169 views | DJR |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 06:03 - Sep 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Only because for the last 15 years or so successive governments have been completely incompetent. We’ve borrowed record amounts and spaffed it away on dodgy contracts, useless PPE, fraudulent furlough claims which were never pursued, hospitals that were never used, and borrowed to pay for the borrowing we borrowed. We are paying more on borrowing than our education system, years to see a surgeon* and an army that could fit in Wembley. Germany has a hugely lower debt to gdp ratio thanks to coherent economic policy over decades and still went through COVID, andddd was harder hit by the energy crisis (due to reliance on Russian gas).
I just don’t see how the current pension system is sustainable with the aging population, and that’s wider recognised by the pensions industry, OBR, IMF etc. I would rather we shift pensions to private funds and the state concentrate on improving public services. Paying current pensioners through current tax payers is insane, it’s going to require ever more tax payers and flies in the face of sustainablity. I think this is what is happening gradually, but I’d add we need better healthcare so that more people can work, and work for longer (if they choose).
*on a lighter note perhaps the plan is to kill everyone off before they reach retirement… [Post edited 18 Sep 6:24]
|
The problem it seems to me though is that many don't have the means to save adequately for their retirement, which means that I think the state would have to act as a backstop at the very least for those going into retirement with precious in the form of income.
As it is, the cost of state provision for pensioners is only around 5% and the abolition of the triple lock would free up much more money over time.
Here's a recent paper on the issue.
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/41/1/153/8157938 [Post edited 18 Sep 8:47]
|  | | |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 08:51 - Sep 18 with 142 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 08:38 - Sep 18 by DJR |
The problem it seems to me though is that many don't have the means to save adequately for their retirement, which means that I think the state would have to act as a backstop at the very least for those going into retirement with precious in the form of income.
As it is, the cost of state provision for pensioners is only around 5% and the abolition of the triple lock would free up much more money over time.
Here's a recent paper on the issue.
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/41/1/153/8157938 [Post edited 18 Sep 8:47]
|
But for context that’s our second biggest spend after healthcare (and projected to rise). Workplace pensions should be enhanced with bigger mandatory contributions (as in much of Scandanavia).if as you suggest people can’t afford to put money aside to save, then they presumably can’t afford more tax to properly fund the state pension. Personal taxes haven’t risen in line with demographic changes. | | | |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:05 - Sep 18 with 119 views | noggin |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 23:17 - Sep 17 by Swansea_Blue |
I find it strange that we’ve paid the banks and energy providers hundreds of billions of pounds in the last couple of years but when anyone suggests we pay a little bit extra on ourselves it’s suddenly not possible. It doesn’t feel like the balance is right. |
Indeed. 4.7% sounds a lot until you see it's an increase of 11 quid a week on one of the lowest state pensions in Europe.
I would like to see the wealth increase of billionaires in the same period and what they paid in taxes. The more they accumulate, the fewer crumbs there are for the rest of us and so we can't afford to give pensioners a very small monthly income. | |
| |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:32 - Sep 18 with 76 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:05 - Sep 18 by noggin |
Indeed. 4.7% sounds a lot until you see it's an increase of 11 quid a week on one of the lowest state pensions in Europe.
I would like to see the wealth increase of billionaires in the same period and what they paid in taxes. The more they accumulate, the fewer crumbs there are for the rest of us and so we can't afford to give pensioners a very small monthly income. |
Not sure a single person has said pensioners shouldn’t get a rise. Only that we need long term reform of the system. There’s around 157 billionaires in the UK (less per capita than Norway). Even if you took their entire net worth it wouldn’t pay our pensions for a single year (let alone an annual wealth tax). YES they should pay more for equality, but suggesting taxing the wealth of a handful of billionaires will make a huge difference to the UKs fiscal situation is populism really. Baring in mind a lot of assets will be in different tax jurisdictions as well.
Norway (ethics aside) did a great job building their sovereign wealth fund, which continues to grow and Norwegians are set for generations now, if only we’d had some politicians with a little foresight… | | | |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:38 - Sep 18 with 49 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 08:38 - Sep 18 by DJR |
The problem it seems to me though is that many don't have the means to save adequately for their retirement, which means that I think the state would have to act as a backstop at the very least for those going into retirement with precious in the form of income.
As it is, the cost of state provision for pensioners is only around 5% and the abolition of the triple lock would free up much more money over time.
Here's a recent paper on the issue.
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/41/1/153/8157938 [Post edited 18 Sep 8:47]
|
Thanks for sharing that, a good read. |  |
| |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:46 - Sep 18 with 43 views | DJR |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 08:51 - Sep 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
But for context that’s our second biggest spend after healthcare (and projected to rise). Workplace pensions should be enhanced with bigger mandatory contributions (as in much of Scandanavia).if as you suggest people can’t afford to put money aside to save, then they presumably can’t afford more tax to properly fund the state pension. Personal taxes haven’t risen in line with demographic changes. |
I am not saying all people can't afford to put aside money but was focusing on the many in this country on the minimum wage or not much above it, and whose prospective pay rises in the future are unlikely to be much higher than the rate of inflation.
People on slightly higher incomes may also be making repaying student loans or have families which further impacts their ability to save for their retirement.
And AI may end up producing a society with large numbers on very low wages or not even employed at all.
As it is, the government is looking at increasing mandatory pension contributions but I just don't think someone on, say, the minimum wage would ever be able to save enough for their retirement meaning the state would always have to take a role in providing an income for them. [Post edited 18 Sep 9:49]
| | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:47 - Sep 18 with 40 views | noggin |
| The state pension will rise by 4.7% next year. on 09:32 - Sep 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure a single person has said pensioners shouldn’t get a rise. Only that we need long term reform of the system. There’s around 157 billionaires in the UK (less per capita than Norway). Even if you took their entire net worth it wouldn’t pay our pensions for a single year (let alone an annual wealth tax). YES they should pay more for equality, but suggesting taxing the wealth of a handful of billionaires will make a huge difference to the UKs fiscal situation is populism really. Baring in mind a lot of assets will be in different tax jurisdictions as well.
Norway (ethics aside) did a great job building their sovereign wealth fund, which continues to grow and Norwegians are set for generations now, if only we’d had some politicians with a little foresight… |
What I'm trying to say is, wealth is being accumulated and that wealth is increasing in value on a daily basis. I'm not comparing the UK to Norway because this is a global problem.
At some point, a lot of this wealth will have to be taken back if we're to avoid the mass poverty that we have, pretty much, ignored in the developing world for years.
How that can be done is another question. I have no idea. The world needs to be much much fairer but greed and desire for power are probably impossible to fight now. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
