| Covid vaccine harm 06:24 - Feb 18 with 4234 views | gtsb1966 |
22,000 claims yet only a 1% pay out but at a cost of £50m to the tax payer. Covid, the disease that keeps on giving, for some.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art |  | | |  |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:15 - Feb 19 with 248 views | Churchman |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:53 - Feb 19 by Cafe_Newman |
You upvoted MattinLondon's post above. What evidence do you think I am unwilling to provide? [Post edited 19 Feb 11:17]
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I upvoted Matt (not Martin) because I agreed with what he said. I don’t do down votes.
There’s plenty I could challenge you on but I’m off to a nice lunch with a good friend. Who knows, had neither of us had the vaccinations, we might not have been around to enjoy it.
There are plenty of people far more knowledgeable than me to discuss this. Have a good afternoon. |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:19 - Feb 19 with 224 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:15 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
I upvoted Matt (not Martin) because I agreed with what he said. I don’t do down votes.
There’s plenty I could challenge you on but I’m off to a nice lunch with a good friend. Who knows, had neither of us had the vaccinations, we might not have been around to enjoy it.
There are plenty of people far more knowledgeable than me to discuss this. Have a good afternoon. |
Enjoy. I’ll be raiding the fridge to somehow satisfy two starving teenagers. A nice lunch with a good friend sounds much better. |  |
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| Covid vaccine harm on 11:39 - Feb 19 with 203 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Covid vaccine harm on 11:15 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
I upvoted Matt (not Martin) because I agreed with what he said. I don’t do down votes.
There’s plenty I could challenge you on but I’m off to a nice lunch with a good friend. Who knows, had neither of us had the vaccinations, we might not have been around to enjoy it.
There are plenty of people far more knowledgeable than me to discuss this. Have a good afternoon. |
Enjoy your lunch!
I look forward to having a friendly chat later today about the most basic of human rights, bodily sovereignty. I'm not sure why you would have plenty to challenge me on, but anyway, enjoy your lunch in the meantime.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go |  | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 12:28 - Feb 19 with 160 views | LeoMuff |
| Covid vaccine harm on 10:49 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
An interesting thread. Unfortunately I am one of those that has to ‘spare a thought for those people, far more intelligent’ than me, to quote the most active poster on this thread, but I shall offer a view from an idiot’s standpoint. Mine.
At the time, what was being faced was the unknown. We the plebs were presented with images of body bags in corridors, graphs, stats, plastic tents and the threat of a pandemic with insufficient resources. It was scary. Were there preparations for such things? To a limited extent, but nothing on the scale of Covid.
A lot of the basic work within government departments went out of the window with austerity (tories deemed contingency planning and unproductive useless work so binning it equalled reduced headcount - the only priority) and Brexit. This is not anecdotal - I saw enough of it first hand from 2003-19 to give a view.
So the pandemic arrived and the government had to make decisions. The scientists they brought in could advise, but only on the basis of limited information, best guess, experience. Other countries were doing their thing and there was knowledge from them and plenty of stats flying about. The only obvious solution beyond letting it run its course (anti vaxer position) was lockdown and vaccine development. That was how it was.
Ok, lockdown probably did more harm than good in so many ways (not a fact, just gut instinct), but we all have 100% accuracy on the gift of hindsight. The effects were unknown. Nobody actually knew the consequences of letting covid run its course either beyond the frightening levels of illness and death at the time.
That vaccines were developed and deployed so quickly was remarkable. So did I, as one of the ignoramuses, have any doubt in having the vaccine. Did I heck as like. And when my father was left out by accident off the vulnerable priority list, I was on to that ghastly pilsbury dough looking Suffolk Coastal MP like the wrath of god.
As I saw it at the time, if a vaccine reduces risk of Covid, flu, plague and Black Death but a few percent, given my age I’d take it. If that carried a tiny degree of risk, including death, I’ll still take it. Is it a gamble? Not really because despite a few moans and groans at the time and now, statistically to me it’s a no brainer. The lesson still applies.
There is a risk in all things. A good friend of mine is a massive conspiracy theorist. You name it he believes it so of course he refused the vaccine. A friends misses refused because she hates needles. Each to their own in what they prioritise.
At the time there was one particular poster on here who went to the trouble of reading what was out there and more importantly understanding it. For me, he became a main source of information (thanks). However much I might disagree on other matters, on things like this I’ll take his view over some of the other stuff I read including within this thread, just as I did a the time.
That’s how I see it. |
Lockdowns in the uk saved an estimated 450000 lives, now it was more harmful than was presented at the time or was considered but I don’t think you can argue it did more harm than good |  |
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| Covid vaccine harm on 18:41 - Feb 19 with 63 views | Churchman |
| Covid vaccine harm on 12:28 - Feb 19 by LeoMuff |
Lockdowns in the uk saved an estimated 450000 lives, now it was more harmful than was presented at the time or was considered but I don’t think you can argue it did more harm than good |
That’s a fair point which I can’t challenge really because I’ve not read about that estimate or what it is based on.
What I do believe is that from a mental state perspective, society, children’s education and economics, which also impacts on wellbeing, there was a considerable downside. It is totally unquantifiable, I’ve not read of any studies on so my view (feeling) is very subjective.
You might well be right. I’m sure a lot of study will be done on this which will hopefully help in the future should anything like this happen again. | | | |
| Covid vaccine harm on 20:09 - Feb 19 with 41 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Covid vaccine harm on 23:12 - Feb 18 by Cafe_Newman |
Thanks for this.
It seems that I've wound a few people up.
You'll forgive me for not seeing everybody's comments when four people are sending me links, cartoons, scientific, papers and "I'm not a medic but this is how I see it" type of comments.
The question I asked was in response to this comment : ""The big thing was that it (covid vaccination) hugely reduces your chances of getting very sick and needing admission to hospital."
You answered with this: "To answer ..., vaccinated people as well as unvaccinated were hospitalised. People died in both groups. The difference is that vaccination reduced the numbers of both compared with those who were unvaccinated."
That's great. Thanks. I'll conclude firstly that the claim during the covid years that the vaccines were "safe and effective" together with comments from leading politicians like Biden stating categorically that if you get the shot then you won't get covid were disingenuous to say the very least. I'm not interested in knowing whether vaccination has produced a lower death rate than non-vaccination. I was simply looking for evidence that people from both camps had died in order to dismiss the claim that the vaccines are effective. You will argue that vaccination is more effective than non-vaccination, of course, but I can argue that non-vaccination is also effective as I know people who were not vaccinated and didn't get covid at all and none of them died.
The greatest protection against covid illness and death was general good health, lack of other illnesses, and a well-functioning immune system.
I have consistently stated that I don't mind people getting vaccinated. Rather, that those wishing not to get vaccinated are allowed to do so without being pressurised or punished.
There are bags of reasons why people choose not to be vaccinated and some may be very poor reasons, others perfectly good: from honestly believing that Big Pharma is out to kill you, to responsible perfectly healthy people with good immune systems knowing the percentage infection and death risks and the state of their immune systems being enough to resist serious illness.
Branding all the unvaccinated as "anti-vaxxers" was very ugly pitch-fork waving hate which turned many people who were perfectly healthy and capable of withstanding the virus, into passionate sceptics, skeptical of well-meaning members of the medical profession.
And I'll add once more, I'm not anti-vax, but I respect the right of anyone to refuse vaccination because of the importance of bodily sovereignty. I am far less radical and more tolerant in my beliefs surrounding vaccination than those who believed (and still believe) that everyone should be vaccinated because the government, pharmaceutical industry or even the medical profession in general believe that it is the right thing to do.
Thanks for your input. |
Are you thick or trolling? Sorry if that's blunt but it is the only two choices.
Vaccination prevented many people catching Covid. It prevented many of those who caught it from being as ill as they would have done and suffering as bad long-term ill-effects from it as they would otherwise have been. Vaccination prevented many of those who would have died from Covid from dying from it. This is all clearly proven in masses of published data. I have presented the published data but you simply dismiss it (or ask me to present it in raw form instead when it is there anyway - try reading the articles which all reference it). The data has been analysed by expert impartial scientists. Because a few cranks with no scientific knowledge question it (especially with anecdotal "evidence") makes no difference.
You state: "I was simply looking for evidence that people from both camps had died in order to dismiss the claim that the vaccines are effective. You will argue that vaccination is more effective than non-vaccination, of course, but I can argue that non-vaccination is also effective as I know people who were not vaccinated and didn't get covid at all and none of them died."
That is akin to saying "I know people who have smoked 50 a day for 40 years and never died from lung cancer therefore it is clear that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. You would have to be absolutely thick to actually believe that. So thick that I think you must be trolling.
I will leave you with this which I say 100% facetiously (in case that needs pointing out). It is known to be healthy to give up smoking. I am just not all that keen on taking it up in order to be able to give it up.
I am glad you are not anti-vax. Neither do I subscribe to your imaginary forced vaccination position (I am not sure many people do hold that view at all). I do think those pushing anti-vax narratives (which, despite not being anti-vax, you are doing through this thread) should not be allowed to do so unchallenged. That is why you are being robustly challenged over your unscientific nonsense by several of us. |  |
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