| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? 22:22 - Mar 29 with 5072 views | BRIDGHAMBLUE |
Reading through some of the reactions over the last few days, it feels like the issue isn’t really about a politician being around the club,it’s about which politician it is.
If the concern is that an MP is involved or being welcomed, then that should apply across the board, not just because it’s someone from Reform UK that people don’t like. You can’t say it’s unacceptable in one case but fine when it’s someone from Labour Party or any other party.
Every political party has had its issues over the years, whether that’s internal divisions, poor decisions, or controversies. You only have to look back at Tony Blair and the Iraq War to see that no side has a perfect record. That doesn’t mean everyone in that party is bad — and the same logic should apply across the board.
Some of the reactions on here have been a bit over the top, to be honest. Acting like people are personally affected or harmed just because a politician visited or had a meeting feels exaggerated.
Also worth saying: throwing around words like “fascist” at anyone you disagree with is way over the top. Most people using it don’t seem to understand what it actually means and it just cheapens the word and shuts down any proper discussion. Disagree with someone, fine, but labelling them with extreme terms isn’t helping anyone.
Talking about things like immigration policy doesn’t automatically make someone racist. It’s a legitimate topic that governments deal with, whether people agree on the approach or not. Labelling anyone who raises it as “far-right” just shuts down discussion completely.
And on the marches, fair enough, people can do what they want. But turning up in big numbers doesn’t automatically mean you’re right or that you’re creating real change. It’s more a show of feeling than a solution. Real change comes from debate, policy, and action,not just being part of a crowd for a day.
End of the day, if we want to be taken seriously, there needs to be some balance. Either we’re okay with politicians engaging around the club, or we’re not. But it shouldn’t depend on whether we personally agree with them. |  | | |  |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 11:12 - Mar 30 with 718 views | ernie |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 22:56 - Mar 29 by BRIDGHAMBLUE |
A lot of these comments sound just like the person they claim to oppose ,telling others what they can and can’t say, while criticising the same behaviour. It’s a contradiction.
Some of the posts on here aren’t moral at all, they’re just angry and full of insults. There’s a big difference between having a view and just throwing abuse around.
It feels like people are talking about “principles” while acting in a way that doesn’t reflect them. |
That’s the left for you. | | | |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 11:13 - Mar 30 with 724 views | jayessess |
Just by the by, on the idea that people are just throwing the word "fascist" around at anything they disagree with. Reform UK are clearly within a long British far right tradition. Farage himself expresses admiration for Enoch Powell. He's tight with various other international politicians whose parties developed unambiguously from Neo-Fascist parties (Le Pen, Meloni) or whose governments are currently engaged in violent repression and wars of aggression (Trump).
His party draws on an activist base that is infested with people who've migrated across from Neo-Fascist parties including Britain First, as well as Holocaust deniers, committed Islamophobes and other racists: https://manchestermill.co.uk/g .
Their candidate for the last by-election was on record defending racially essentialist ideas of Englishness - that is, questioning the Englishness of non-white people. He's also embraced the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory, which argues that a rich elite are importing foreigners to replace white people (a conspiracy theory that's widespread on the far right and basically dog-whistle anti-semitism, because guess who is usually posited as the "rich elite").
To quote Michael Rosen's poem Fascism: I Sometimes Fear:
"I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.
Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...
It doesn't walk in saying,
Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution." |  |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:05 - Mar 30 with 663 views | LeoMuff |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 23:10 - Mar 29 by BRIDGHAMBLUE |
You’re taking allegations, media snippets and individual cases and presenting them as if they define everything, that’s not a balanced view, that’s selective.
If we’re going down that route, every party has had members accused of racism, misconduct or worse over the years. That doesn’t mean you tar everyone in that party with the same brush ,or suddenly decide only one side is “toxic”.
You say the club should be apolitical, but then make an exception depending on who you personally dislike. That’s the inconsistency.
You don’t have to like Nigel Farage or Reform UK ,but acting like they’re uniquely beyond the pale while ignoring issues elsewhere just weakens your argument. |
We didn’t invite these other members accused of racism though did we ? Why are you comparing that ?
To 40% of the country Farage is toxic, his views and the experiences of others make that so.
I don’t recall any other political figure at Portman road ? Why have we courted this one ? Why feel the need to lie about it ?
I am being selective as the club have as well, as I have said before the club should be apolitical and would say that for any politician that comes to PR |  |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:06 - Mar 30 with 660 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 22:57 - Mar 29 by positivity |
maybe you meant moral compass?
in which case, almost all politicians had a more effective moral compass than farage, going as far back as oswald mosley |
Are you including those that have knowingly sent people to kill or be killed? Morally that is top of the reprehensible scale. |  |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:17 - Mar 30 with 638 views | positivity |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:06 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
Are you including those that have knowingly sent people to kill or be killed? Morally that is top of the reprehensible scale. |
yes, i'm well aware faage was very keen to join in on the ridiculous iran war, fortunately starmer was more sensible.
as said earlier, you can be morally superior, without being morally perfect.
no-one is morally perfect and no-one is pretending that they are.
good rules of thumb are, don't be racist, don't be anti-semitic, don't be sexist, don't be islamophobic, don't be homophobic, don't be xenophobic, etc etc
farage will do all the above and get us involved in foreign wars if his puppetmasters, the trumps and putins of the world, tell him to | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:34 - Mar 30 with 611 views | BtreeBlueBlood |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 22:38 - Mar 29 by jaykay |
you correct a lot of posts for a newbie on their first day out. i bet he couldn't name our team from a couple of years ago. a troll or worse norwich supporter |
Maybe Phil should look into the new members a bit more - if true! |  | | |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:54 - Mar 30 with 574 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:17 - Mar 30 by positivity |
yes, i'm well aware faage was very keen to join in on the ridiculous iran war, fortunately starmer was more sensible.
as said earlier, you can be morally superior, without being morally perfect.
no-one is morally perfect and no-one is pretending that they are.
good rules of thumb are, don't be racist, don't be anti-semitic, don't be sexist, don't be islamophobic, don't be homophobic, don't be xenophobic, etc etc
farage will do all the above and get us involved in foreign wars if his puppetmasters, the trumps and putins of the world, tell him to |
Yes, that wasn't what you said. You said he was the worst going back to Moseley. That wasn't accurate.
I'm no fan of him or any politician. Billy Connolly was correct, someone's desire to be a politician should immediately disqualify them. Pretty sure Blair and Thatcher were far worse. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:59 - Mar 30 with 561 views | positivity |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:54 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
Yes, that wasn't what you said. You said he was the worst going back to Moseley. That wasn't accurate.
I'm no fan of him or any politician. Billy Connolly was correct, someone's desire to be a politician should immediately disqualify them. Pretty sure Blair and Thatcher were far worse. |
i'd say that blair and thatcher were morally superior to him; for all their faults, neither were systemically racist, xenophobic, anti-semitic, islamophobic as farage and his cronies.
you'll find very few people on this board and the country who disagree with them being far more respected politicians. maybe a few brainwashed fanboys on twitter
what was your user-name before you started posting as "tambu"? | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:05 - Mar 30 with 545 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:54 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
Yes, that wasn't what you said. You said he was the worst going back to Moseley. That wasn't accurate.
I'm no fan of him or any politician. Billy Connolly was correct, someone's desire to be a politician should immediately disqualify them. Pretty sure Blair and Thatcher were far worse. |
Blair and Thatcher were far worse than Farage?
Wow! |  |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:20 - Mar 30 with 529 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 12:59 - Mar 30 by positivity |
i'd say that blair and thatcher were morally superior to him; for all their faults, neither were systemically racist, xenophobic, anti-semitic, islamophobic as farage and his cronies.
you'll find very few people on this board and the country who disagree with them being far more respected politicians. maybe a few brainwashed fanboys on twitter
what was your user-name before you started posting as "tambu"? |
I think the thousands of people whose deaths were instigated by them might have a different opinion, if indeed they weren't dust now. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:20 - Mar 30 with 523 views | bazza |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 22:58 - Mar 29 by BRIDGHAMBLUE |
Can say that for almost all MP's though, I don't vote and never have or will. |
Deary me. |  | | |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:23 - Mar 30 with 508 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:20 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
I think the thousands of people whose deaths were instigated by them might have a different opinion, if indeed they weren't dust now. |
So they are worse because they had more power than he has.
Farage has been very vocal that he wants us to support Trump and Netanyahu in their war.
It is quite clear he would support killing people in war. | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:26 - Mar 30 with 494 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:23 - Mar 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
So they are worse because they had more power than he has.
Farage has been very vocal that he wants us to support Trump and Netanyahu in their war.
It is quite clear he would support killing people in war. |
Thinking about killing someone vs doing it. Who is worse?
I get it, you don't like him. I don't either. But I'm not going to use hyperbole to justify that. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:31 - Mar 30 with 472 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:26 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
Thinking about killing someone vs doing it. Who is worse?
I get it, you don't like him. I don't either. But I'm not going to use hyperbole to justify that. |
We are clearly talking at cross purposes then.
Farage has not committed war crimes that Blair probably did (certainly been accused of). He has also not carried out acts that Thatcher did do. I agree.
However, the point I want to make absolutely clear is that Farage is far worse than both of those in his stated intents politically. It would be like saying before Hitler came to power that he was better than any other political leader who led their country in a war. Technically it would have been true at that moment but ultimately that should only be good cause to avoid giving him the power to demonstrate that he is far worse. | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:40 - Mar 30 with 456 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:31 - Mar 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
We are clearly talking at cross purposes then.
Farage has not committed war crimes that Blair probably did (certainly been accused of). He has also not carried out acts that Thatcher did do. I agree.
However, the point I want to make absolutely clear is that Farage is far worse than both of those in his stated intents politically. It would be like saying before Hitler came to power that he was better than any other political leader who led their country in a war. Technically it would have been true at that moment but ultimately that should only be good cause to avoid giving him the power to demonstrate that he is far worse. |
I would think it very unlikely he will come to power. That whole movement is fractured and split into so many warring factions, that whilst they will make a lot of noise thy can't unify enough folks. They are the worst monty python tribute act of all time. The peoples front of ..... | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:43 - Mar 30 with 451 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:40 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
I would think it very unlikely he will come to power. That whole movement is fractured and split into so many warring factions, that whilst they will make a lot of noise thy can't unify enough folks. They are the worst monty python tribute act of all time. The peoples front of ..... |
I hope you are correct. But the fact there is so much support for his party and others akin or even worse is terrifying. | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:32 - Mar 30 with 410 views | positivity |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 13:20 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
I think the thousands of people whose deaths were instigated by them might have a different opinion, if indeed they weren't dust now. |
and the thousands who still live today because farage hasn't been in power for 11/10 years would say the opposite.
(edit: nthsuffolk's hitler analogy is much more pertinent, should have read that first!)
you failed to answer my question about your previous posting name before you popped back up here as "tambu" [Post edited 30 Mar 14:36]
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:38 - Mar 30 with 395 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:32 - Mar 30 by positivity |
and the thousands who still live today because farage hasn't been in power for 11/10 years would say the opposite.
(edit: nthsuffolk's hitler analogy is much more pertinent, should have read that first!)
you failed to answer my question about your previous posting name before you popped back up here as "tambu" [Post edited 30 Mar 14:36]
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I wasn't aware I had to tell anyone who I am. Seeing as you've been so welcoming and have down arrowed everything I have had to say, what makes you think for one second I wish to divulge that kind of information?
"and the thousands who still live today because farage hasn't been in power for 11/10 years would say the opposite. " Good lord, what a stretch. Whataboutery par excellence. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:41 - Mar 30 with 379 views | positivity |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:38 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
I wasn't aware I had to tell anyone who I am. Seeing as you've been so welcoming and have down arrowed everything I have had to say, what makes you think for one second I wish to divulge that kind of information?
"and the thousands who still live today because farage hasn't been in power for 11/10 years would say the opposite. " Good lord, what a stretch. Whataboutery par excellence. |
how many had hitler sent to their deaths before he became chancellor? how many had mosley?
doesn't make them or farage morally superior to thatcher or blair, to argue anything else is weapons grade edgelordism.
on this site, we down arrow comments we disagree with, so don't get all snowflakey and take it personally.
still shy of admitting your past life then? bit like farage and his schooldays! | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:43 - Mar 30 with 372 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:41 - Mar 30 by positivity |
how many had hitler sent to their deaths before he became chancellor? how many had mosley?
doesn't make them or farage morally superior to thatcher or blair, to argue anything else is weapons grade edgelordism.
on this site, we down arrow comments we disagree with, so don't get all snowflakey and take it personally.
still shy of admitting your past life then? bit like farage and his schooldays! |
Ad hominem.
Edgelordism?
Good lord.
Have a splendid day Mr Positivity | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:50 - Mar 30 with 347 views | positivity |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:43 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
Ad hominem.
Edgelordism?
Good lord.
Have a splendid day Mr Positivity |
stay edgy, mr. shy
you'll soon go the way of your antecedents like paz, prominent, macca, europa, midland etc etc. always ends the same with the edgelords | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:55 - Mar 30 with 339 views | glasso |
I really don't understand why people can't see the nuance of this.
I wouldn't want to see our club used as a political tool by anyone, but seeing as you asked, yeah it's worse that it's Farage, because he's a vile and divisive man who stands against many of the things this club is *supposed* to believe in.
It's not that difficult to understand if you want to, is it?
"We had Barack Obama here, so we must let Hitler in as well"
"We welcomed Justin Trudeau, so we can't say no to Idi Armin"
It's just daft to push this idea that we can't possibly treat awful human beings differently from decent ones.
And if you want to take it away from political (i.e. 'I don't like Reform'), then do it on the basis of his beliefs. He's anti half the players in our squad. He doesn't think much of women's football. He doesn't care about equality. That should be enough for us to say, 'I don't think we're a great match for each other' | | | |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:57 - Mar 30 with 332 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:50 - Mar 30 by positivity |
stay edgy, mr. shy
you'll soon go the way of your antecedents like paz, prominent, macca, europa, midland etc etc. always ends the same with the edgelords |
I have no idea who any of those are. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 15:00 - Mar 30 with 315 views | positivity |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 14:57 - Mar 30 by Tambu |
I have no idea who any of those are. |
course not!
they all remind me of you: edgy for edgy's sake, no coherent arguments, get themselves banned in time.
saying that farage is morally far superior to thatcher and blair is a strong start in the edgelord stakes! | |
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| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 15:14 - Mar 30 with 283 views | Tambu |
| Can we be consistent about MPs, not just who we like? on 15:00 - Mar 30 by positivity |
course not!
they all remind me of you: edgy for edgy's sake, no coherent arguments, get themselves banned in time.
saying that farage is morally far superior to thatcher and blair is a strong start in the edgelord stakes! |
"saying that farage is morally far superior to thatcher and blair is a strong start in the edgelord stakes! "
I said there were worse.. Your framing is a misrepresentation.
Are you calling for a card to be issued? Very poor form.
I'm not entirely why you feel the need to verbally belligerent purely because I don't parrot your narrative or go with the Ad populum.
Anyway have a lovely day, best things. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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