| Little question for primary school teachers if poss 16:49 - Nov 17 with 2337 views | giant_stow |
What's sort of sanctions do teachers have available for kids who won't stop bullying?
My lad (who is partially sighted) is getting some proper sh1t off an ex-friend, who's hitting, bullying and texting stuff like 'special blind sh1t' + today hiding his cap (which he needs outside to keep the sun out his face, which basically helps him see something at least).
Being going on for two weeks - this week is of course anti-bullying week (!).
The head is involved and on it, to his credit, but him and the class teacher seem to be missing lots still.
My boy doesn't want me to tell the head about today's hat-hiding as it'll just make it worse when the bully gets told off, but we kind of have to, or just carries on.
Getting to the point where we can't get the boy in of a morning, but that's just the bully winning. What can we do? |  |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 16:54 - Nov 17 with 2266 views | _clive_baker_ |
Sorry to hear that. With regards to the texting, does he need a phone? Presume it's a safety thing, but it hadn't even crossed my mind that primary age kids would have mobile phones tbh.
I'm sure there are some formal routes to go down with the school which you should explore, like laying it on thick to the head that some action is needed.
My 2 are pre school age so I've got no idea how it works, and don't know much about the workings of the education system so I'm not much use. Is there any value in knocking on the door of this kids house and having a word with his parents (if you know where they live?). |  | | |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:02 - Nov 17 with 2226 views | Help |
Record everything. Tell them everything. Ask if the school has spoken to the others parents. Is the others parents the sort of people you can talk to or would you cross the road to avoid them if you get my drift. Bullying is far more widespread than schools make out sadly and most stems from what happens at home. Both my boys were bullied at school for the colour of their hair. Both learnt karate. So when the bullying got more Physical the bully got warned and sat down. It stopped. Took the bully a while to learn
Shows how stupid they were to be honest. |  |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:07 - Nov 17 with 2205 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 16:54 - Nov 17 by _clive_baker_ |
Sorry to hear that. With regards to the texting, does he need a phone? Presume it's a safety thing, but it hadn't even crossed my mind that primary age kids would have mobile phones tbh.
I'm sure there are some formal routes to go down with the school which you should explore, like laying it on thick to the head that some action is needed.
My 2 are pre school age so I've got no idea how it works, and don't know much about the workings of the education system so I'm not much use. Is there any value in knocking on the door of this kids house and having a word with his parents (if you know where they live?). |
Yeah we thought long and hard about the phone, but the schiool encourages kids to walk home alone in year 6 and for our kid, thats a 15 min walk, so thats what swung it. He actually called me on the walk on thurs last week as another kid was chasing him to try and beat him up so its worth it.
I more than know where the kid lives - I've been taking him to footy training. We've been in touch but they seem to want to treat it as boys being boys. (its not) .
Edit, I volunteer coach at the club as an non-qualified assistant - I've made it my job to keep the bully on the straight and narrow / support him / keep him out of trouble. I know I shouldn't take it personally but him turning on my boy feels like a personal let-down. [Post edited 17 Nov 2023 17:17]
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:10 - Nov 17 with 2175 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:02 - Nov 17 by Help |
Record everything. Tell them everything. Ask if the school has spoken to the others parents. Is the others parents the sort of people you can talk to or would you cross the road to avoid them if you get my drift. Bullying is far more widespread than schools make out sadly and most stems from what happens at home. Both my boys were bullied at school for the colour of their hair. Both learnt karate. So when the bullying got more Physical the bully got warned and sat down. It stopped. Took the bully a while to learn
Shows how stupid they were to be honest. |
Thanks for the tips. The school have called in some kid's parents - at one point it was 3 or 4 of them - but not the main bully's yet (they've tried, but can't get hold of them).
I too really want my lad to learn some self-defence skills - glad it helped your two. He's quite short, which helps make him a target and wears glasses too. My lad has almost white hair cos he has albinism, so can well identify with your experience.
Edit: it just feels that more is being done to help the bully learn their way out of it, than helping my boy at the moment. understand vulnerable kids need nurturing and support, but right now, its at my lad's expense. [Post edited 17 Nov 2023 17:17]
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:14 - Nov 17 with 2129 views | soupytwist |
The school can't do anything about stuff it doesn't know about, so you need to tell them everything.
The school can't specifically do a lot about the stuff that takes place outside school but it helps with context and may mean that they can take steps in school to make the instances in school less likely to occur.
And I'd have stopped taking that kid to football training by now, but that's up to you. |  | | |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:16 - Nov 17 with 2105 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:14 - Nov 17 by soupytwist |
The school can't do anything about stuff it doesn't know about, so you need to tell them everything.
The school can't specifically do a lot about the stuff that takes place outside school but it helps with context and may mean that they can take steps in school to make the instances in school less likely to occur.
And I'd have stopped taking that kid to football training by now, but that's up to you. |
Yeah i think you're right - I have to tell them each detail, but it comes at a loss of trust between me and my boy, who's told me outright not to tell.
Haven't taken the bully for the last two weeks - it would be inappropriate - I couldn't have him in the car without telling a few things. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:16 - Nov 17 with 2106 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:07 - Nov 17 by giant_stow |
Yeah we thought long and hard about the phone, but the schiool encourages kids to walk home alone in year 6 and for our kid, thats a 15 min walk, so thats what swung it. He actually called me on the walk on thurs last week as another kid was chasing him to try and beat him up so its worth it.
I more than know where the kid lives - I've been taking him to footy training. We've been in touch but they seem to want to treat it as boys being boys. (its not) .
Edit, I volunteer coach at the club as an non-qualified assistant - I've made it my job to keep the bully on the straight and narrow / support him / keep him out of trouble. I know I shouldn't take it personally but him turning on my boy feels like a personal let-down. [Post edited 17 Nov 2023 17:17]
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TBH I would be knocking on the door and laying it on thick to that kids parents that it needs to stop immediately. Perhaps show them the text message. It sounds like they haven't taken your concerns very seriously. | | | |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:17 - Nov 17 with 2100 views | Buhrer |
Sorry to hear this, had similar but with our girl. Absolute bloody nightmare to even get the school to admit it was 'bullying,' despite the very clear evidences. Record and persistently report everything you can, though i appreciate we do hold things back at times for kids. Essentially it ended mainly by my girl avoiding horrible ex friends as much as possible, while building resilience and new friends. This was not quick or easy and there were a lot of tears. The arsehole girls are still there, now attached to vapes, but my girl has nice mates and doesn't care, as much. Good luck to your lad. It might not be easily achievable for him, but all bullies are cowards. They don't like it up them, so a punch in the gob either literally or metaphorically, works well in the longer term in my experience. Short terms the hard bit, chin up kid. |  | | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:19 - Nov 17 with 2078 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Not a teacher, but I am an ex-Primary Chair of Governors and would the Head would talk through things like this with me
A Head Teacher can exclude a child for this kind of behaviour, if they fail to respond to the "This is serious, stop it" talk. Exclusion can be for a set number of days, or permanently.
Heads won't want to permanently exclude because it is a bit of an admission of failure.
Your next step could be to ask for a meeting with the Head and Class Teacher, tell them it needs to stop, and ask how they will enforce that.
Next step, if that fails to work, could be to write to the Governors, or, and this will put the sheet up the Head, to write to Ofsted saying that you have a Safeguarding concern that is not being properly addressed. That is the nuclear option.
Whatever you do, don't pose with your son on the sofa pulling miserable faces for a photo in the local paper under a "Bullies made my blind son's life miserable" headline. That will mark him out as a target forever more.
Is there a sight-disabled charity that you have contact with? They may have support workers who could talk through things with your son.
The "confidence through martial arts" route suggested already is a good idea, as is finding any kind of activity which he loves which will give him a more supportive peer group, boost his self-confidence, and lessen the impact of negative experiences at school.
One thing I will say: get this sorted, both in terms of school dealing with the bully and putting in place other means to grow your son's confidence, now whilst he is at Primary, as Secondary Schools have many more pupils and you would have to fight much harder to be heard. |  | | |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:20 - Nov 17 with 2069 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:16 - Nov 17 by _clive_baker_ |
TBH I would be knocking on the door and laying it on thick to that kids parents that it needs to stop immediately. Perhaps show them the text message. It sounds like they haven't taken your concerns very seriously. |
I showed them the messages (that was just the worse one - the rest were horrendous too), but tbh, I don't think they can comprehend it.
I think if carries on next week, I'll have to do the heavy bit. (not me in the slightest - I'm a proper pussy, but everyone has a limit). | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:22 - Nov 17 with 2050 views | Steve_M |
It must be very frustrating that this is still going on, as others have said you need to keep the school informed if they are to do anything - that needn't be everything to protect your son a bit - but it does sound like whatever the school have done isn't enough.
Ultimately the school can suspend, or even expel, kids who are constantly disruptive. It's understandable that they don't want to start there but I think they need to let you know what they are doing next. Do you get the sense that the kid(s) involved have parents who will be horrified at their child's behaviour or are they less likely to care? [Post edited 17 Nov 2023 18:17]
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:22 - Nov 17 with 2043 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:17 - Nov 17 by Buhrer |
Sorry to hear this, had similar but with our girl. Absolute bloody nightmare to even get the school to admit it was 'bullying,' despite the very clear evidences. Record and persistently report everything you can, though i appreciate we do hold things back at times for kids. Essentially it ended mainly by my girl avoiding horrible ex friends as much as possible, while building resilience and new friends. This was not quick or easy and there were a lot of tears. The arsehole girls are still there, now attached to vapes, but my girl has nice mates and doesn't care, as much. Good luck to your lad. It might not be easily achievable for him, but all bullies are cowards. They don't like it up them, so a punch in the gob either literally or metaphorically, works well in the longer term in my experience. Short terms the hard bit, chin up kid. |
Thanks fella - appreciate it. It kind of eats you up innit.
Sorry on one hand that it took your girl a while to get things sorted, but glad she got there in the end.
I keep telling the boy to stand up for himself and hit back if need be, but he's scared of getting in trouble. I told him i'll back him up if that happens, but its a bit of a mental block right now. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:26 - Nov 17 with 2021 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:19 - Nov 17 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Not a teacher, but I am an ex-Primary Chair of Governors and would the Head would talk through things like this with me
A Head Teacher can exclude a child for this kind of behaviour, if they fail to respond to the "This is serious, stop it" talk. Exclusion can be for a set number of days, or permanently.
Heads won't want to permanently exclude because it is a bit of an admission of failure.
Your next step could be to ask for a meeting with the Head and Class Teacher, tell them it needs to stop, and ask how they will enforce that.
Next step, if that fails to work, could be to write to the Governors, or, and this will put the sheet up the Head, to write to Ofsted saying that you have a Safeguarding concern that is not being properly addressed. That is the nuclear option.
Whatever you do, don't pose with your son on the sofa pulling miserable faces for a photo in the local paper under a "Bullies made my blind son's life miserable" headline. That will mark him out as a target forever more.
Is there a sight-disabled charity that you have contact with? They may have support workers who could talk through things with your son.
The "confidence through martial arts" route suggested already is a good idea, as is finding any kind of activity which he loves which will give him a more supportive peer group, boost his self-confidence, and lessen the impact of negative experiences at school.
One thing I will say: get this sorted, both in terms of school dealing with the bully and putting in place other means to grow your son's confidence, now whilst he is at Primary, as Secondary Schools have many more pupils and you would have to fight much harder to be heard. |
Thank you so much - We have done some these things already, but it wouldn't have occurred to me to go to the Governors for example.
Have had meetings, but no news of action yet. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:28 - Nov 17 with 2008 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:22 - Nov 17 by Steve_M |
It must be very frustrating that this is still going on, as others have said you need to keep the school informed if they are to do anything - that needn't be everything to protect your son a bit - but it does sound like whatever the school have done isn't enough.
Ultimately the school can suspend, or even expel, kids who are constantly disruptive. It's understandable that they don't want to start there but I think they need to let you know what they are doing next. Do you get the sense that the kid(s) involved have parents who will be horrified at their child's behaviour or are they less likely to care? [Post edited 17 Nov 2023 18:17]
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The parents are classic outwardly respectable, but not very on it (to be polite) I don;t want to trash them, but there's a lot of booze involved (i know them fairly well - well enough to know the da's in the pub a few times a day - permanently ruddy faced. Knowing that is partly why I don't want to put the boot in unless I have to. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:32 - Nov 17 with 1937 views | soupytwist |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:22 - Nov 17 by giant_stow |
Thanks fella - appreciate it. It kind of eats you up innit.
Sorry on one hand that it took your girl a while to get things sorted, but glad she got there in the end.
I keep telling the boy to stand up for himself and hit back if need be, but he's scared of getting in trouble. I told him i'll back him up if that happens, but its a bit of a mental block right now. |
My son had a bit of this kind of thing at primary school (not as bad as this thought) and eventually he just punched the main offender. We defended him as we knew what was happening while trying to explain that violence isn't the answer. It was quite close to the end of primary school and they went their separate ways to secondary school thankfully.
What was harder to deal with was when he got involved with his friendship group at secondary school making some other kid's life a misery. He rightly had the book thrown at him by the school for that, and at home. He's turned out alright since then. | | | |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:33 - Nov 17 with 1935 views | textbackup |
Beat the life out of the kids dad infront of him, telling him that’s all his fault. Should work.
Sorry to read you boy is having to deal with that |  |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:35 - Nov 17 with 1913 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:32 - Nov 17 by soupytwist |
My son had a bit of this kind of thing at primary school (not as bad as this thought) and eventually he just punched the main offender. We defended him as we knew what was happening while trying to explain that violence isn't the answer. It was quite close to the end of primary school and they went their separate ways to secondary school thankfully.
What was harder to deal with was when he got involved with his friendship group at secondary school making some other kid's life a misery. He rightly had the book thrown at him by the school for that, and at home. He's turned out alright since then. |
There's hope at least - thanks. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:37 - Nov 17 with 1902 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:33 - Nov 17 by textbackup |
Beat the life out of the kids dad infront of him, telling him that’s all his fault. Should work.
Sorry to read you boy is having to deal with that |
Cheers mr - that thought keeps coming back to me in dark moments, but not there yet.
Thanks to everyone too and sorry to unload - but some good advice received - appreciated. Off to see the my little one. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:37 - Nov 17 with 1896 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:26 - Nov 17 by giant_stow |
Thank you so much - We have done some these things already, but it wouldn't have occurred to me to go to the Governors for example.
Have had meetings, but no news of action yet. |
The Governors should have a nominated Governor responsible for Safeguarding, so they could be the person to approach. But you need to give the Head a fair opportunity to put things right first.
The Head may be aware of other contributory factors in the bully's home life that you don't know about, which may explain a softly softly approach, but other children shouldn't be the punchbags for a troubled child's emotional turmoil.
I haven't worked with this charity personally, but having somebody who understands for you to talk to, or to support your son, may be helpful through the next stage for him:
https://www.albinism.org.uk/contact-10 | | | |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:40 - Nov 17 with 1871 views | giant_stow |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:37 - Nov 17 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The Governors should have a nominated Governor responsible for Safeguarding, so they could be the person to approach. But you need to give the Head a fair opportunity to put things right first.
The Head may be aware of other contributory factors in the bully's home life that you don't know about, which may explain a softly softly approach, but other children shouldn't be the punchbags for a troubled child's emotional turmoil.
I haven't worked with this charity personally, but having somebody who understands for you to talk to, or to support your son, may be helpful through the next stage for him:
https://www.albinism.org.uk/contact-10 |
You're a gem - thanks for the link. | |
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| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 18:20 - Nov 17 with 1701 views | ronnyd |
| Little question for primary school teachers if poss on 17:28 - Nov 17 by giant_stow |
The parents are classic outwardly respectable, but not very on it (to be polite) I don;t want to trash them, but there's a lot of booze involved (i know them fairly well - well enough to know the da's in the pub a few times a day - permanently ruddy faced. Knowing that is partly why I don't want to put the boot in unless I have to. |
If you have a choice between protecting your lad or not calling out a drunken parent then you only really have one option. | | | |
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