| Ignorance about immigration 12:19 - Aug 8 with 733 views | DJR |
I have been away for a few days and was surprised no one had picked up on this.
"Support for hard-line anti-immigration policies linked to ignorance about migration figures, poll suggests
YouGov has released detailed polling on attitudes to immigration that shows a clear link between having hard-line anti-immigrant views and being ignorant about the level of illegal immigration into the UK.
YouGov’s Matthew Smith says:
"Almost half of Britons (47%) think there are more migrants staying in the UK illegally rather than legally … [and] crucially, this view is held by 72% of those who want to see mass removals. However, these perceptions appear to be wide of the mark.
Estimates of the population of illegal migrants living in the UK range from 120,000 to 1.3 million, with Reform UK’s Zia Yusuf recently putting the figure at 1.2 million.
Regardless of which figure from this range is chosen, it does not come close to the number of migrants living in the UK legally, with 2021/2022 census data putting the entire foreign-born population of the UK at 10.7 million."
It is well known that many people massively over-estimate the extent to which irregular migration contributes to the overall net migration figures, which reached a record high of 900,000 in the year ending June 2023.
The confusion is partly explained by the huge media and political attention given to people arriving in the UK on small boats. But the annual small boat arrival figure has never been higher than the 46,000 total it reached in 2022 – although it is on course to pass that this year.
The YouGov polling suggests that, while cutting migration numbers significantly but still allowing some migrants into the country is the policy with most support (very broadly, this is also what Labour and the Tories advocate), almost half of voters either strongly (26%) or somewhat (19%) support “admitting no more new migrants and requiring large numbers of migrants who came to the UK in recent years to leave”.
YouGov describes this as “extraordinary”. Advocating for migrants who settled in the UK for years to leave is a policy that has not been supported by anyone in mainstream politics for decade, and even now it is a cause that is principally being championed by people who are unashamedly racist.
But the YouGov polling also found that almost half of respondents thought there were more immigrants staying in the UK illegally than legally, and that only 19% said that there was “much more” legal than illegal immigration (which is almost certainly the correct answer, even allowing for the very highest estimates of the level of unauthorised migration).
And YouGov established that people saying, wrongly, that there is “much more” illegal migration than legal migration are much more likely to be in the group saying large numbers of recent migrants should be returned. [Post edited 8 Aug 12:24]
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| Ignorance about immigration on 15:57 - Aug 8 with 468 views | Freddies_Ears |
The last govt allowed around 750k migrants in each year, which utterly dwarfs the (less than) 50k on small boats. Even of that 50k, around half are allowed to remain (proven refugee status). It didn't help that the last govt virtually stopped processing asylum claims so a huge backlog grew. It didn't help that the much-trumpeted Rwanda scheme was an utter failure. It doesn't help that UK still has no national ID system, making it really easy to work illegally (and, hence, making UK a relatively attractive place to come to). |  | | |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:06 - Aug 8 with 416 views | lowhouseblue |
people arriving on small boats is a tiny number relative to net migration of some 3 million over 4 years. it's almost as if focusing on the small number draws attention and political focus away from the very much bigger number. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:10 - Aug 8 with 380 views | Herbivore |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:06 - Aug 8 by lowhouseblue |
people arriving on small boats is a tiny number relative to net migration of some 3 million over 4 years. it's almost as if focusing on the small number draws attention and political focus away from the very much bigger number. |
And, indeed, from a host of other issues. I wonder who benefits from the billionaire owned media focusing so heavily on small boat crossings and pinning the country's problems on them? |  |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:16 - Aug 8 with 341 views | Meadowlark |
Why don't Labour say this? Instead they jump on the Tory/Retard err Reform bandwagon. |  | | |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:22 - Aug 8 with 315 views | lowhouseblue |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:10 - Aug 8 by Herbivore |
And, indeed, from a host of other issues. I wonder who benefits from the billionaire owned media focusing so heavily on small boat crossings and pinning the country's problems on them? |
i suspect that the media focuses on it as a very clear example of where political rhetoric and promises - 'stop the boats' / 'smash the gangs' - bare no relationship to what then happens in practice. it reflects public frustration with politicians and in some communities there is real resentment of the failure to control the numbers of irregular arrivals and the policies to manage them once they are here. public anger makes for good media reach. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:24 - Aug 8 with 303 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:16 - Aug 8 by Meadowlark |
Why don't Labour say this? Instead they jump on the Tory/Retard err Reform bandwagon. |
Because if they kept reminding people that on average around 2,000 legally migrate to the U.K. every day they wouldn’t stand a chance of re-election.
There is a lot of ignorance about migration which works in Reforms favour. |  |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:26 - Aug 8 with 285 views | Herbivore |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:22 - Aug 8 by lowhouseblue |
i suspect that the media focuses on it as a very clear example of where political rhetoric and promises - 'stop the boats' / 'smash the gangs' - bare no relationship to what then happens in practice. it reflects public frustration with politicians and in some communities there is real resentment of the failure to control the numbers of irregular arrivals and the policies to manage them once they are here. public anger makes for good media reach. |
I'm not sure you're familiar with how the media works in the UK. | |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:28 - Aug 8 with 272 views | Blueschev |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:16 - Aug 8 by Meadowlark |
Why don't Labour say this? Instead they jump on the Tory/Retard err Reform bandwagon. |
I would say it's a combination of Labour lacking both principles and a backbone.
Adopting the rhetoric of Reform doesn't shut it down, it validates it. It attracts no extra votes to Labour, and further alienates their base, whilst ceding the narrative to Farage. |  | | |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:37 - Aug 8 with 217 views | lowhouseblue |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:26 - Aug 8 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure you're familiar with how the media works in the UK. |
not only familiar with the media but also have sufficient respect for other people to know that their views and frustrations aren't created for them by the media. which, as we know from previous discussions, is where we differ. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Ignorance about immigration on 16:48 - Aug 8 with 148 views | Swansea_Blue |
We touched on it a few days back and I dug out some stats around unauthorised immigrants. It’s very tiny amount of the total, albeit that’s the official line and there could be people here who haven’t been identified. But yes, the bottom line is most immigrants come here for work or study and are needed/wanted and the level of ignorance amongst the British public is frightening.
One in one out by Swansea_Blue 5 Aug 9:41Absolutely. Key to this is countering the liars (Farage, online grifters, the right wing press, etc) and tackling ignorance in the population.
A recent YouGov survey revealed that 47% of respondents believe that illegal immigrants make up the majority of immigration*. That’s obviously nonsense and worrying, but I don’t know what we can do about people who chose to believe the conspiracy rather than the reality. They won’t all be doing so because they are racist, but equally people are obviously not challenging their own wrong beliefs. The stats don’t lie:
- 44,000 unauthorised arrivals per year on average between 2020 and 2024
- 94% of those apply for asylum = 41,360 per yr
- 70% of initial claims granted = 28,950
- Therefore, number of unauthorised arrivals per year refused any asylum (i.e. ‘illegal’ immigrants) = c. £15,050 per yr.
- So ‘illegals’ are about 1.5% of all immigration (which was about 950k in 2004)
- The fact remains that most immigrants are here for work or study reasons, most of the rest claim asylum and most of those are granted it.
*(Paywall sorry) https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/new-poll-migration-news-b99h3wqgz#:~:text=Almost%20half%20(47%20per%20cent,the%20number%20of%20legal%20migrants.
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| Ignorance about immigration on 17:05 - Aug 8 with 97 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:37 - Aug 8 by lowhouseblue |
not only familiar with the media but also have sufficient respect for other people to know that their views and frustrations aren't created for them by the media. which, as we know from previous discussions, is where we differ. |
It's the amplification of anti immigration views based on false information by ( mainly ) social media is the issue. You are not necessarily a racist if you have anti immigration views but in this era of fake new, extremists are being enabled. Knee perk reactions don't make good policy and this febrile behaviour will lead to the worst possibly outcome. |  | | |
| Ignorance about immigration on 17:27 - Aug 8 with 23 views | Churchman |
| Ignorance about immigration on 16:24 - Aug 8 by Pinewoodblue |
Because if they kept reminding people that on average around 2,000 legally migrate to the U.K. every day they wouldn’t stand a chance of re-election.
There is a lot of ignorance about migration which works in Reforms favour. |
There’s a lot of ignorance but I don’t think the politicians help themselves.
I don’t believe the tories or Labour were or are serious about it. I think they both favour virtually unlimited immigration for differing reasons. They are being forced to come out with concerned stuff because they are worried about the likes of Farage and are sort of aware that the media lens showing mostly fit young men of fighting age arriving by rubber boat and clambering out of lorries worries people.
That it’s a small percentage of people arriving legally or otherwise is irrelevant. It’s what people see in their bog roll Mail or Current Bun along with the unsavoury language. People feel threatened. It may not be rational, but it needs addressing.
Two examples as to why I think Labour and tories are not interested. The tories promoted that Rwanda plan. Full of holes. Laughable. They must have been rolling in the aisles when some chinless dork came up with that before saying ‘err, hang on….’. There was more chance of me making Pope than that ever being more than a pathetic costly stunt.
Then we have Sir Kier wanging on about ‘smash the gangs’. What gangs, Sir Kier?’ Where, how, who, when? Even my cat worked out it was just hot air.
Conclusion? Whatever the truth, the current government are making it far too easy for Farage’s idiots to prey upon people’s fears. Labour might start by being a little more honest but let’s face it, honesty and politicians? That’d be a first. |  | | |
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