| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! 13:27 - Jun 9 with 4808 views | STYG |
Unreal.
Their own fans are going mental (rightly so) over a quite unbelievably bad decision they've made to feature a Pride Wall (during Pride Month) which sounds great right?
Until you realise the wall is just a load of homophobic insults! What were they thinking!
Their own LGBTQ+ group have absolutely ripped into them. The club themselves proclaimed it as a masterpiece on Twitter.
What on earth are they doing! How could they not have consulted their own LGBTQ+ group over Pride Month to realise how terrible a decision this was!
I'd link the post but don't want to cause offence to anyone! Think of a homophobic term and it's on there though. [Post edited 9 Jun 2022 13:29]
|  | | |  |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:28 - Jun 9 with 3785 views | J2BLUE |
Can see the logic but you'd think a bit of thought would have brought them to their senses. |  |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 with 3774 views | Zx1988 |
I can see both sides here.
The wall was then covered up by various players/club representatives throwing rainbow-coloured paint at it, and the idea works in practice.
The problem is that a lot of the media surrounding it simply featured a big wall with lots of homophobic abuse scrawled on it:
(oh, and whatever 'Sea Queen' is meant to mean...) | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 with 3765 views | Hipsterectomy |
I did see a lot of their fans turning on the club twitter after it changed the profile picture for Pride. |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 with 3734 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:28 - Jun 9 by J2BLUE |
Can see the logic but you'd think a bit of thought would have brought them to their senses. |
By all means celebrate stand with their supporters and embrace their symbolism, rainbows, promote their websites and provide links to places where they can find other fans like them, who could feel isolated.
But a big wall with all the horrendous things they've been called their own lives, the words that have reduced them to tears, made them wish they weren't here, what the hell! | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:32 - Jun 9 with 3704 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 by Zx1988 |
I can see both sides here.
The wall was then covered up by various players/club representatives throwing rainbow-coloured paint at it, and the idea works in practice.
The problem is that a lot of the media surrounding it simply featured a big wall with lots of homophobic abuse scrawled on it:
(oh, and whatever 'Sea Queen' is meant to mean...) |
Surely the approach is not to upset a small section of your fans to try and educate the idiots that would still use such words?
Surely the message is these words have no place in society, not to promote them and then hide them? Even that sends the message that they are still there under the surface, just a bit hidden. | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:33 - Jun 9 with 3678 views | J2BLUE |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 by Zx1988 |
I can see both sides here.
The wall was then covered up by various players/club representatives throwing rainbow-coloured paint at it, and the idea works in practice.
The problem is that a lot of the media surrounding it simply featured a big wall with lots of homophobic abuse scrawled on it:
(oh, and whatever 'Sea Queen' is meant to mean...) |
Oh wow. I hadn't seen it. I was picturing something very different! | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:35 - Jun 9 with 3664 views | Zx1988 |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:32 - Jun 9 by STYG |
Surely the approach is not to upset a small section of your fans to try and educate the idiots that would still use such words?
Surely the message is these words have no place in society, not to promote them and then hide them? Even that sends the message that they are still there under the surface, just a bit hidden. |
Precisely that.
Everyone knows what constitutes homophobic abuse, in much the same way as we all know racist abuse when we see/hear it.
The club could have made exactly the same point without sticking the offensive terms front-and-centre. The 'not today, or any day' campaign surrounding racist abuse seemed to do just fine without showcasing the relevant terms. | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:36 - Jun 9 with 3643 views | Steve_M |
It was clearly well meant but didn't work at all. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:38 - Jun 9 with 3613 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:36 - Jun 9 by Steve_M |
It was clearly well meant but didn't work at all. |
Fair play to them for trying to do something positive, but it's so stupid I cannot believe it was ever sanctioned.
I just can't believe nobody realised that if you did the exact same thing to say racism and had certain words visible and then covered up, it wouldn't cause a huge uproar (rightly) and that by doing the same thing to a different group of people that have been prejudiced against and persecuted just for being themselves, that they wouldn't have the exact same reaction. | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:39 - Jun 9 with 3608 views | Illinoisblue |
I hate to defend Norwich but not sure they’ve done a lot wrong here. Highlighting bad words is not such a bad idea. |  |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:41 - Jun 9 with 3568 views | Illinoisblue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 by Zx1988 |
I can see both sides here.
The wall was then covered up by various players/club representatives throwing rainbow-coloured paint at it, and the idea works in practice.
The problem is that a lot of the media surrounding it simply featured a big wall with lots of homophobic abuse scrawled on it:
(oh, and whatever 'Sea Queen' is meant to mean...) |
I had to look it up, never heard of that term either
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_queens | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:41 - Jun 9 with 3557 views | unbelievablue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:39 - Jun 9 by Illinoisblue |
I hate to defend Norwich but not sure they’ve done a lot wrong here. Highlighting bad words is not such a bad idea. |
Imagine doing it with racism.
I think it's really stupid. |  |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:44 - Jun 9 with 3513 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:39 - Jun 9 by Illinoisblue |
I hate to defend Norwich but not sure they’ve done a lot wrong here. Highlighting bad words is not such a bad idea. |
Really? So as part of an anti-racist campaign you'd be happy to see the N word amongst others slapped up there in giant letters before it gets covered up?
Who the hell uses these words to someone and doesn't know what they mean? One of two terms people won't know and therefore use. But as if the club need to have them up on a wall or promote them for people to know they are bad.
The key thing here though for me is that my opinion is not the best way to judge if this was right or wrong. Nor is yours I'm guessing.
The ones who can best judge this are their own LGBTQ+ fans group who they clearly never bothered to ask. Regardless of a great idea they may have thought they had, how the hell do you run with this without gauging their, much more experienced, views on whether this is a good idea. | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:46 - Jun 9 with 3483 views | unbelievablue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:44 - Jun 9 by STYG |
Really? So as part of an anti-racist campaign you'd be happy to see the N word amongst others slapped up there in giant letters before it gets covered up?
Who the hell uses these words to someone and doesn't know what they mean? One of two terms people won't know and therefore use. But as if the club need to have them up on a wall or promote them for people to know they are bad.
The key thing here though for me is that my opinion is not the best way to judge if this was right or wrong. Nor is yours I'm guessing.
The ones who can best judge this are their own LGBTQ+ fans group who they clearly never bothered to ask. Regardless of a great idea they may have thought they had, how the hell do you run with this without gauging their, much more experienced, views on whether this is a good idea. |
I have to say that although I agree with the broad sentiment, the N word is not a fair equivalent. | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:49 - Jun 9 with 3426 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:46 - Jun 9 by unbelievablue |
I have to say that although I agree with the broad sentiment, the N word is not a fair equivalent. |
Probably not because of the much wider and more significant history behind it.
But I’d be thinking along similar lines of racism and thinking how this couldn’t possibly be a good idea and even if I thought it was genius, I’d sure as hell consult the fans group! | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:51 - Jun 9 with 3396 views | Illinoisblue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:44 - Jun 9 by STYG |
Really? So as part of an anti-racist campaign you'd be happy to see the N word amongst others slapped up there in giant letters before it gets covered up?
Who the hell uses these words to someone and doesn't know what they mean? One of two terms people won't know and therefore use. But as if the club need to have them up on a wall or promote them for people to know they are bad.
The key thing here though for me is that my opinion is not the best way to judge if this was right or wrong. Nor is yours I'm guessing.
The ones who can best judge this are their own LGBTQ+ fans group who they clearly never bothered to ask. Regardless of a great idea they may have thought they had, how the hell do you run with this without gauging their, much more experienced, views on whether this is a good idea. |
Yep, be happy with that. They are just words. It’s how you use words that causes the problem. An organization pointing out “hey these words are bad and you shouldn’t use them” is not something I have a problem with. There’s a clumsiness to it, sure, but it’s well intentioned. | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:58 - Jun 9 with 3312 views | galacticoblue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:30 - Jun 9 by Zx1988 |
I can see both sides here.
The wall was then covered up by various players/club representatives throwing rainbow-coloured paint at it, and the idea works in practice.
The problem is that a lot of the media surrounding it simply featured a big wall with lots of homophobic abuse scrawled on it:
(oh, and whatever 'Sea Queen' is meant to mean...) |
Why they are censoring some words on the board but not others is quite something. Trying to show they have good intentions but really not well thought through. | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:58 - Jun 9 with 3307 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:51 - Jun 9 by Illinoisblue |
Yep, be happy with that. They are just words. It’s how you use words that causes the problem. An organization pointing out “hey these words are bad and you shouldn’t use them” is not something I have a problem with. There’s a clumsiness to it, sure, but it’s well intentioned. |
But the point you seem to be missing is that it's not about how happy a (I'm going to assume white, straight man - apologies if I am wrong) in Illinois feels about it.
It's about how their LGBTQ+ fans about it. They are horrified and they were not consulted.
I personally think it's horrendous. But my view also counts little because I don't know much about it really also being a white, straight man.
Anything like this should always be handled with care and respect and involve consultation. Not involve me or you having what we think is a great idea and running with it, no matter how well intentioned.
Again, even if you are someone in the LGBTQ+ community and you feel it's okay, it should again still be about what the collective opinion is, in case you're the only one who thinks it's fine whilst everyone else is horrified. [Post edited 9 Jun 2022 14:02]
| | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:59 - Jun 9 with 3289 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:58 - Jun 9 by galacticoblue |
Why they are censoring some words on the board but not others is quite something. Trying to show they have good intentions but really not well thought through. |
That's another thing!
Either have the words in full if you believe it's a good idea to promote these words or cover them all up. Even that part of it makes no sense because someone is deciding all these words are offensive but then choosing which ones they think are extra offensive! WTF. | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 14:33 - Jun 9 with 3075 views | Illinoisblue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 13:58 - Jun 9 by STYG |
But the point you seem to be missing is that it's not about how happy a (I'm going to assume white, straight man - apologies if I am wrong) in Illinois feels about it.
It's about how their LGBTQ+ fans about it. They are horrified and they were not consulted.
I personally think it's horrendous. But my view also counts little because I don't know much about it really also being a white, straight man.
Anything like this should always be handled with care and respect and involve consultation. Not involve me or you having what we think is a great idea and running with it, no matter how well intentioned.
Again, even if you are someone in the LGBTQ+ community and you feel it's okay, it should again still be about what the collective opinion is, in case you're the only one who thinks it's fine whilst everyone else is horrified. [Post edited 9 Jun 2022 14:02]
|
Are you suggesting that only gay people or people of colour are the only ones who can be offended by use of hateful words?
Not every cause has to involve consultation groups and feedback from every possible party. It actually is okay for people or organizations to make a stand and say “hey let’s do better”. Whether it’s football clubs that should be society’s moral guardians is another argument altogether. | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 14:34 - Jun 9 with 3059 views | unbelievablue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 14:33 - Jun 9 by Illinoisblue |
Are you suggesting that only gay people or people of colour are the only ones who can be offended by use of hateful words?
Not every cause has to involve consultation groups and feedback from every possible party. It actually is okay for people or organizations to make a stand and say “hey let’s do better”. Whether it’s football clubs that should be society’s moral guardians is another argument altogether. |
First sensible thing you've said all day. | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 14:59 - Jun 9 with 2906 views | STYG |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 14:33 - Jun 9 by Illinoisblue |
Are you suggesting that only gay people or people of colour are the only ones who can be offended by use of hateful words?
Not every cause has to involve consultation groups and feedback from every possible party. It actually is okay for people or organizations to make a stand and say “hey let’s do better”. Whether it’s football clubs that should be society’s moral guardians is another argument altogether. |
Of course I'm not suggesting that and I'd be generally surprised if that was the conclusion you reached.
But I don't think it can reasonably be denied that, generally, black people or people of colour will be more offended by derogatory terms aimed at black people or people of colour and gay people will be more offended by derogatory terms aimed at gay people. I fail to see how you could reach the conclusion that the rest of us can't be offended by hateful words when someone other than us is the intended target.
Not everything needs consultation, but I'd say it's common sense, when dealing with anything that you believe to be sensitive, controversial or likely to cause offence, to be something that, as a massive part of a community, with hundreds of thousands of followers in this case, that you don't put out anything until you've done due diligence by including the best people to be able to comment on whether it is likely to cause offence.
As a white, straight man, I absolutely despise any form of prejudice and have never even suffered any, so I cannot begin to imagine how a woman, a black person or someone who is gay, for example, must feel about prejudice. But before doing anything to celebrate women or black people or gay people I'd sure as hell seek a much better placed opinion than mine on how to do it for fear of causing offence. This is me as an individual, a much lower burden of obligation than an entire football club and multi-million pound business that represents an entire city. | | | |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 15:50 - Jun 9 with 2712 views | Illinoisblue |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 14:34 - Jun 9 by unbelievablue |
First sensible thing you've said all day. |
And the day is young. Stay tuned! | |
| |
| Norwich - the gift that keeps on giving! on 15:57 - Jun 9 with 2678 views | Illinoisblue |
That distant sound of pennies dropping 😄 | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
