| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians 10:42 - Oct 26 with 2703 views | WeWereZombies |
He also is putting new weight behind a two state solution as a message to Netanyahu.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-west-bank-settlers-israel-hamas-war-0a2f3887872
'Biden said the attacks by “extremist settlers” amounted to “pouring gasoline” on the already burning fires in the Middle East since the Hamas attack.
“It has to stop. They have to be held accountable. It has to stop now,” Biden said at the start of a news conference with Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who was being honored with a state visit to Washington.' |  |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 12:38 - Oct 26 with 2614 views | DJR |
It's interesting to consider what to make of what Biden is now saying. He has perhaps modified his language, and behind the scenes may be holding back Israel to an extent, but his words are presumably aimed at a wider audience, now that allies in the Arab world are up in arms.
Whatever the position, no major Western politician appears to be prepared to criticise what is going on in Gaza. |  | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 12:47 - Oct 26 with 2592 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 12:38 - Oct 26 by DJR |
It's interesting to consider what to make of what Biden is now saying. He has perhaps modified his language, and behind the scenes may be holding back Israel to an extent, but his words are presumably aimed at a wider audience, now that allies in the Arab world are up in arms.
Whatever the position, no major Western politician appears to be prepared to criticise what is going on in Gaza. |
There may be no open condemnation of the Israeli Defence Force yet but I think this AP release is the clearest indication yet that Netanyahu is being pressured through diplomatic channels. Do not forget that the United Nations have been practical and clear in their disapproval of the Northern Gaza clear out, and are backed by many nations outside of the Arab sphere. If anything, Russia and China have been more muddled than the United States but then neither of those first two mentioned superpowers have clean hands when it comes to human rights crimes against Muslim minorities (or majorities in the case of Russian operations in Syria.)
More troubling is that at the moment the cat and mouse game of tank incursions and limited hostage releases see Netanyahu and Hamas continue in their deadly lock of mutual dependence. A diplomatic breakthrough is urgently needed. | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 13:41 - Oct 26 with 2539 views | DJR |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 12:47 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
There may be no open condemnation of the Israeli Defence Force yet but I think this AP release is the clearest indication yet that Netanyahu is being pressured through diplomatic channels. Do not forget that the United Nations have been practical and clear in their disapproval of the Northern Gaza clear out, and are backed by many nations outside of the Arab sphere. If anything, Russia and China have been more muddled than the United States but then neither of those first two mentioned superpowers have clean hands when it comes to human rights crimes against Muslim minorities (or majorities in the case of Russian operations in Syria.)
More troubling is that at the moment the cat and mouse game of tank incursions and limited hostage releases see Netanyahu and Hamas continue in their deadly lock of mutual dependence. A diplomatic breakthrough is urgently needed. |
Sadly, diplomacy looks a long way off, if now even possible when it comes to a two state solution. | | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 15:22 - Oct 26 with 2483 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 13:41 - Oct 26 by DJR |
Sadly, diplomacy looks a long way off, if now even possible when it comes to a two state solution. |
Diplomacy is not a long way off, it is going on all the time. The question is how soon can it be effective enough to get UN peacekeeping forces on the ground, because that is the only solution I can see to the conflict now. And the UN peacekeepers will want to be released from their duties at the earliest opportunity, which is why the two state solution is the only viable one.
What needs to be reinforced is political will (from sensible players) and that needs to be underpinned by popular support for decent politicians. Which is what your first post today, about the 76% (of those polled) wanting a ceasefire showed to be the case. | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 16:11 - Oct 26 with 2433 views | DJR |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 15:22 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
Diplomacy is not a long way off, it is going on all the time. The question is how soon can it be effective enough to get UN peacekeeping forces on the ground, because that is the only solution I can see to the conflict now. And the UN peacekeepers will want to be released from their duties at the earliest opportunity, which is why the two state solution is the only viable one.
What needs to be reinforced is political will (from sensible players) and that needs to be underpinned by popular support for decent politicians. Which is what your first post today, about the 76% (of those polled) wanting a ceasefire showed to be the case. |
You're more of an optimist than I! | | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 16:19 - Oct 26 with 2405 views | noggin |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 15:22 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
Diplomacy is not a long way off, it is going on all the time. The question is how soon can it be effective enough to get UN peacekeeping forces on the ground, because that is the only solution I can see to the conflict now. And the UN peacekeepers will want to be released from their duties at the earliest opportunity, which is why the two state solution is the only viable one.
What needs to be reinforced is political will (from sensible players) and that needs to be underpinned by popular support for decent politicians. Which is what your first post today, about the 76% (of those polled) wanting a ceasefire showed to be the case. |
Neither side is likely to take notice of UN peacekeepers, sadly. |  |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 16:46 - Oct 26 with 2378 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 16:19 - Oct 26 by noggin |
Neither side is likely to take notice of UN peacekeepers, sadly. |
When they know the alternative is something like a joint French / Egyptian temporary occupying force they might. And they may realise that is preferable to Iranian, Russian and paramilitary control, or even United States involvement. | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 17:29 - Oct 26 with 2331 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 16:46 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
When they know the alternative is something like a joint French / Egyptian temporary occupying force they might. And they may realise that is preferable to Iranian, Russian and paramilitary control, or even United States involvement. |
There have been UN peacekeepers in Lebanon since the 1970s and it hasn't stopped Hezbollah and other militant groups operating there. There were also UN personnel in Sinai after the Suez Crisis until Egypt expelled them. These peacekeeping forces don't work unfortunately. |  | | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 18:31 - Oct 26 with 2278 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 17:29 - Oct 26 by Clapham_Junction |
There have been UN peacekeepers in Lebanon since the 1970s and it hasn't stopped Hezbollah and other militant groups operating there. There were also UN personnel in Sinai after the Suez Crisis until Egypt expelled them. These peacekeeping forces don't work unfortunately. |
And the blue helmets were back in Sinai when I was there in 2004 (on holiday, never been a blue helmet...or any other type.) I know that they are not a magic bullet, a wand that can be waved and all the troubles disappear but as part of a network of measures (diplomatic, military, economic and social) they have a part to play. Lebanon is a complex and dispiriting story, perhaps in hindsight one can say that there were never enough UN peacekeepers there. My knowledge of the place is a little too coloured by this book though:
https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/dom-joly/the-hezbollah-hiking-club/97814721284 | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 19:26 - Oct 26 with 2191 views | DJR |
Interestingly, it was Obama, with Biden at his side, who vetoed the 2011 UN resolution condemning settlements, and since then settler numbers have increased to nearly 700,000 in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Coupled with the likely destruction of Gaza, a two state solution, in my view, will be impossible once the current conflict is over. | | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 19:39 - Oct 26 with 2157 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 17:29 - Oct 26 by Clapham_Junction |
There have been UN peacekeepers in Lebanon since the 1970s and it hasn't stopped Hezbollah and other militant groups operating there. There were also UN personnel in Sinai after the Suez Crisis until Egypt expelled them. These peacekeeping forces don't work unfortunately. |
As the horrors of Srebrenica bear witness to, a UN Peacekeeping force is utterly useless if it is too small, too lightly armed, and doesn't have Rules of Engagement which allow it to take decisive action.
Gaza would require sufficient firepower to stop the Israeli tanks, numbers to prevent ANY attacks from Gaza onto South Western Israel, and the agreement of both sides in order for them to make their initial deployment.
There is no way that Israel will allow Egyptian soldiers in numbers in Gaza. There is no way Hamas would allow the US, or other Western powers.
Who might be considered neutral enough? South Africa? India? Indonesia?
Anyway, Hamas want a war, not peacekeepers.
I can't see any possible UN force being introduced in the near future. |  | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 19:49 - Oct 26 with 2132 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 19:39 - Oct 26 by ArnoldMoorhen |
As the horrors of Srebrenica bear witness to, a UN Peacekeeping force is utterly useless if it is too small, too lightly armed, and doesn't have Rules of Engagement which allow it to take decisive action.
Gaza would require sufficient firepower to stop the Israeli tanks, numbers to prevent ANY attacks from Gaza onto South Western Israel, and the agreement of both sides in order for them to make their initial deployment.
There is no way that Israel will allow Egyptian soldiers in numbers in Gaza. There is no way Hamas would allow the US, or other Western powers.
Who might be considered neutral enough? South Africa? India? Indonesia?
Anyway, Hamas want a war, not peacekeepers.
I can't see any possible UN force being introduced in the near future. |
Agreed that a lightweight UN force would be useless, do major powers fear the outbreak of something worse than the current conflict to make a commitment to peace at all costs ?
Hence my suggestion of French involvement, they are dragging their heels over Ukraine even in terms of military supplies so could not be expected to be in reserve for any NATO involvement (not that any is likely but a realistic threat such as United Kingdom forces has to be a possibility to prevent Russia taking bigger liberties) and France has recent desert and Sahel warfare experience from West Africa. Whether Israel liked it or not Egypt would be the best actor in Gaza, they want to maintain Sinai free from Palestinian occupation (so as to limit future Israeli belligerence in the area) and they have a motivation to crack down on Iranian influence in Gaza. | |
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| [Redacted] on 19:53 - Oct 26 with 2122 views | victorywilhappen |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 19:26 - Oct 26 by DJR |
Interestingly, it was Obama, with Biden at his side, who vetoed the 2011 UN resolution condemning settlements, and since then settler numbers have increased to nearly 700,000 in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Coupled with the likely destruction of Gaza, a two state solution, in my view, will be impossible once the current conflict is over. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 20:06 - Oct 26 with 2094 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 19:49 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
Agreed that a lightweight UN force would be useless, do major powers fear the outbreak of something worse than the current conflict to make a commitment to peace at all costs ?
Hence my suggestion of French involvement, they are dragging their heels over Ukraine even in terms of military supplies so could not be expected to be in reserve for any NATO involvement (not that any is likely but a realistic threat such as United Kingdom forces has to be a possibility to prevent Russia taking bigger liberties) and France has recent desert and Sahel warfare experience from West Africa. Whether Israel liked it or not Egypt would be the best actor in Gaza, they want to maintain Sinai free from Palestinian occupation (so as to limit future Israeli belligerence in the area) and they have a motivation to crack down on Iranian influence in Gaza. |
"Whether Israel liked it or not" is the flaw in your plan!
No Israeli politician would give credence to any plan with such overt resonances of 1967 and 1973. | | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 20:08 - Oct 26 with 2090 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
"We want to live beautiful lives, no buildings falling on our heads."
Gazan girl aged about 6 after 6 residential buildings fell on people's heads. |  |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 21:44 - Oct 26 with 2000 views | DJR |
It's probably always been a lame duck, given the veto of the five permanent members of the Security Council.
In practice it is the vetoes of the US, Russia and China which really matter, but no doubt, were the veto to be abolished, those three members would still carry on doing what they wanted. | | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 22:03 - Oct 26 with 1979 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 20:06 - Oct 26 by ArnoldMoorhen |
"Whether Israel liked it or not" is the flaw in your plan!
No Israeli politician would give credence to any plan with such overt resonances of 1967 and 1973. |
Sure Egypt have had their fingers burnt in the past, which is why I suggest a joint operation between a couple of mid-range military powers such as France and Egypt, from different continents and with largely different religious and cultural backgrounds. It is pure speculation, not even a plan, but whatever is done is going to be against the will of the extreme faction that has worked its way into control of the Knesset. Those characters will try and play whoever gets involved into a corner so that no ground is given back to the Palestinians and no respect is accorded them. To accede to that is to give up on justice. | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 08:46 - Oct 27 with 1833 views | DJR |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 22:03 - Oct 26 by WeWereZombies |
Sure Egypt have had their fingers burnt in the past, which is why I suggest a joint operation between a couple of mid-range military powers such as France and Egypt, from different continents and with largely different religious and cultural backgrounds. It is pure speculation, not even a plan, but whatever is done is going to be against the will of the extreme faction that has worked its way into control of the Knesset. Those characters will try and play whoever gets involved into a corner so that no ground is given back to the Palestinians and no respect is accorded them. To accede to that is to give up on justice. |
Your thinking chimes with Sir John Sawers, former head of MI6), although he is looking at what happens when the war is over.
This from an article by him in the FT a couple of days ago.
"The second challenge will be, what comes after? The priority after a major terror attack is to prevent a repeat. I understand that one option Israelis are considering is to seal off the whole Gaza Strip with a double barrier, a new one some distance inside Gaza territory in addition to the current border wall, and to close all the crossings into Israel.
But that leaves the question of who will administer Gaza and its citizens. Israel has no appetite to occupy it again. The West Bank’s Palestinian Authority can’t ride in on the back of Israeli tanks. Egypt, understandably, refuses to absorb 2mn refugees, a step that would serve the agenda of some hard-right Israelis who want to drive Palestinians out of their homes.
Some international administration of Gaza is called for. The UN has done this before in Namibia, Cambodia, Bosnia and East Timor. The US did it in Iraq after their ill-fated invasion. Mistakes were made, but in each case an administration kept the country going and an international military force held the ring so a new government with local support could emerge.
In Gaza, the challenges would be huge. Any such presence would have to be led by Arab countries such as Egypt, Morocco and Saudi Arabia that would be acceptable to Israel and have standing with the people of Gaza. Others like Pakistan, Indonesia and the Gulf States could contribute. A UN-approved administration would require a Security Council mandate, and Russia and China would only sign up if this was an Arab-led initiative. An alternative would be an Arab League mandate, but that alone may not carry the necessary authority." | | | |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 22:09 - Oct 27 with 1702 views | WeWereZombies |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 08:46 - Oct 27 by DJR |
Your thinking chimes with Sir John Sawers, former head of MI6), although he is looking at what happens when the war is over.
This from an article by him in the FT a couple of days ago.
"The second challenge will be, what comes after? The priority after a major terror attack is to prevent a repeat. I understand that one option Israelis are considering is to seal off the whole Gaza Strip with a double barrier, a new one some distance inside Gaza territory in addition to the current border wall, and to close all the crossings into Israel.
But that leaves the question of who will administer Gaza and its citizens. Israel has no appetite to occupy it again. The West Bank’s Palestinian Authority can’t ride in on the back of Israeli tanks. Egypt, understandably, refuses to absorb 2mn refugees, a step that would serve the agenda of some hard-right Israelis who want to drive Palestinians out of their homes.
Some international administration of Gaza is called for. The UN has done this before in Namibia, Cambodia, Bosnia and East Timor. The US did it in Iraq after their ill-fated invasion. Mistakes were made, but in each case an administration kept the country going and an international military force held the ring so a new government with local support could emerge.
In Gaza, the challenges would be huge. Any such presence would have to be led by Arab countries such as Egypt, Morocco and Saudi Arabia that would be acceptable to Israel and have standing with the people of Gaza. Others like Pakistan, Indonesia and the Gulf States could contribute. A UN-approved administration would require a Security Council mandate, and Russia and China would only sign up if this was an Arab-led initiative. An alternative would be an Arab League mandate, but that alone may not carry the necessary authority." |
Well that is a somewhat more feathered bird than the scrawny foul I served up, but I guess I should be a bit chuffed that my slightly emotionally overwrought reasoning was on the approach road to a former head of MI6 thoughts. | |
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| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 22:11 - Oct 27 with 1693 views | DJR |
| Biden calls for an end to settler attacks on Bedouins and Palestinians on 22:09 - Oct 27 by WeWereZombies |
Well that is a somewhat more feathered bird than the scrawny foul I served up, but I guess I should be a bit chuffed that my slightly emotionally overwrought reasoning was on the approach road to a former head of MI6 thoughts. |
Don't do yourself down! | | | |
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