| It's a very unusual situation. 10:21 - Mar 28 with 985 views | Guthrum |
Normally when there is a ruckus between the leadership and fans of a club it is over finances, selling off assets, relocation, transfer policy or hiring and firing managers. I can't, off the top of my head, think of another example where a row has broken out over something entirely unrelated to the football or administration side of things, more a philosophical matter.
This makes it harder to navigate as a fanbase. There aren't the blueprints on how to proceed.
There will be a cohort who are supporters of Reform. They will be happy with what has happened and probably not consider an apology even necessary.
Another group are very opposed to Farage and thus extremely angry at him having anything to do with ITFC.
A third section are most annoyed at the way this has been handled. The attempted distancing, the later revelations. Many of them are not satisfied with Ashton's apology.
Finally, there are people who wish all of this would go away as they fear it damaging the team and our prospects of promotion at a finely-balanced stage of the season.
None of these form a majority in themselves and there will be considerable overlap. But very likely there are many more unhappy than pleased that something like this has occurred.
Would a match boycott force Ashton out? Unlikely in the short term. Would it harm our chances of promotion? Probably, there are tough games ahead in which a supportive crowd could make the difference. In most cases, the aim is to reverse a disliked policy, not so for us now. I doubt a stunt like Monday's will be repeated (or everybody will be invited, which I'm not sure improves things). This is more about a breakdown of trust, but not with all the fans.
A boycott of merchendise would take time to show an effect, not until it starts showing up months later in sales figures and annual reports. The situation may well have resolved itself by then.
Might it be more effective to stay and fight for the soul of the club? Probably less damaging than the previous options, but it would indeed be a fight. The Reform cohort's new-found prominence is not going to be reduced easily. It would take a properly coordinated campaign (banners, songs, stressing inclusivity), from below not by the club. And not everybody will want to take part, even if they genrally agree with the sentiments. Nor do we want to drive away long-time, dedicated ITFC fans we've sat and cheered alongside, just because we object to their current political leanings.
I'm talking purely in pragmatic terms, not how people now feel about their association with Ipswich Town. I'm not sure this slab of waffle has any conclusions yet. However, we do need to move on from this situation in some way or other. Not in the sense of brushing it under the carpet and pretending it never happened, but more in the way of rebuilding to what we want the place to be. |  |
| |  |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:36 - Mar 28 with 897 views | farkenhell |
Very well put. Put simply, we're not going to get anything else from the club at least before the end of the season, so we now have a straight choice to make. Either support the manager and team, or risk harming the push for promotion. This was a problem of the club's own making, it could and should have been avoided, but we are where we are. |  | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:41 - Mar 28 with 861 views | TheMoralMajority |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:36 - Mar 28 by farkenhell |
Very well put. Put simply, we're not going to get anything else from the club at least before the end of the season, so we now have a straight choice to make. Either support the manager and team, or risk harming the push for promotion. This was a problem of the club's own making, it could and should have been avoided, but we are where we are. |
Unfortunately, and whilst I admire the sentiment, I do not think it as simple as the binary choice you have laid out. I believe it is entirely possible to continue to support the team in its continued push to hopeful promotion, whilst attempting to hold the leadership to account. |  |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:51 - Mar 28 with 829 views | Blue_Uprising |
Great post.
Agree it’s hard to think of a close parallel to this situation.
Apart from club relocation, a lot of the other situations you cite are ultimately fixed by results on the pitch taking over.
In our case, for many, even if results are good the issue will linger and be unresolved.
Hence why Ashton will forever be a lightening rod for bad feeling and in my opinion will need to be removed. |  | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:52 - Mar 28 with 816 views | farkenhell |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:41 - Mar 28 by TheMoralMajority |
Unfortunately, and whilst I admire the sentiment, I do not think it as simple as the binary choice you have laid out. I believe it is entirely possible to continue to support the team in its continued push to hopeful promotion, whilst attempting to hold the leadership to account. |
The conundrum is how to achieve that without risking undermining the push for promotion. I don't want to see this brushed under the carpet, not least because there remain a number of concerns that MA's interview yesterday did little to dispel. But I fear they might have to wait until the season has ended (which of course probably suits MA). | | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:55 - Mar 28 with 790 views | Guthrum |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:41 - Mar 28 by TheMoralMajority |
Unfortunately, and whilst I admire the sentiment, I do not think it as simple as the binary choice you have laid out. I believe it is entirely possible to continue to support the team in its continued push to hopeful promotion, whilst attempting to hold the leadership to account. |
I think that is my point. Normally, the fans are objecting because the owners/administrators are perceived to be damaging the team and its chances of success. So further protests do little to make the situation worse.
However, here we have a divide over perceived philosophical damage to the club and moral trust in those running it. The team itself is in pretty good shape and on the brink of great success. Does that take priority over anger at Ashton, or is the latter of overriding importance? Is it possible to do both, if so, how?
It's a decision we have to make - and probably better done collectively than people pulling in different direction. | |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:58 - Mar 28 with 771 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:51 - Mar 28 by Blue_Uprising |
Great post.
Agree it’s hard to think of a close parallel to this situation.
Apart from club relocation, a lot of the other situations you cite are ultimately fixed by results on the pitch taking over.
In our case, for many, even if results are good the issue will linger and be unresolved.
Hence why Ashton will forever be a lightening rod for bad feeling and in my opinion will need to be removed. |
Closest I can think of is when Glenn Hoddle brought the position of England manager into disrepute by letting unpleasant values held in his private life bleed into a role to which they held no relevance.
Except he was held to account and sacked for it by authorities concerned about the groups within society who stood to be upset by what he did, so it doesn't look like it's going to be that close a parallel actually. | | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:09 - Mar 28 with 677 views | Blue_Uprising |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:58 - Mar 28 by FoghornGleghorn |
Closest I can think of is when Glenn Hoddle brought the position of England manager into disrepute by letting unpleasant values held in his private life bleed into a role to which they held no relevance.
Except he was held to account and sacked for it by authorities concerned about the groups within society who stood to be upset by what he did, so it doesn't look like it's going to be that close a parallel actually. |
Maybe Forest Green Rovers and the values of the owner brought to the club there.
And clubs with an overtly political background like Rangers/Celtic, and Lazio etc
Not something in my lifetime I’d imagine ITFC to be embroiled in. | | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:15 - Mar 28 with 641 views | grow_our_own |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:55 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
I think that is my point. Normally, the fans are objecting because the owners/administrators are perceived to be damaging the team and its chances of success. So further protests do little to make the situation worse.
However, here we have a divide over perceived philosophical damage to the club and moral trust in those running it. The team itself is in pretty good shape and on the brink of great success. Does that take priority over anger at Ashton, or is the latter of overriding importance? Is it possible to do both, if so, how?
It's a decision we have to make - and probably better done collectively than people pulling in different direction. |
Closure ultimately requires Ashton's removal. If we can get there without alienating a section of the supporters, then great. But we need to get there. I think we can all agree that politicising ITFC 1) happened, and 2) was wrong. Reform, the Greens, Labour, the Conservatives, or the Lib Dems, it doesn't matter. Should never happen. And parading them all through the club, one at a time isn't practical. No politics in ITFC. Period. Even the Reform voters should get onboard with that.
And if we can agree with that, then we make that message heard as loud and clear as possible. "Our club, not your politics", "Club, not campaign tool", "Scarves not rosettes" and yes, "Ashton Out". [Post edited 28 Mar 11:56]
| | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:15 - Mar 28 with 637 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
The thing I fear most is Ashton getting to hide behind the smokescreen of promotion, a promotion that his actions have made all the more unlikely. This isn't to say that I don't want promotion but I am genuinely conflicted about attending. Maybe the idea of entering games ten minutes late, home and away, while he is here has some merit and then a resounding chorus of disapproval when he shows his face at any public celebrations.
If we fail to get promotion then he's toast anyway for his full pelt sprint into adversity.
What a fekkin mess. |  |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:21 - Mar 28 with 604 views | TheMoralMajority |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:15 - Mar 28 by grow_our_own |
Closure ultimately requires Ashton's removal. If we can get there without alienating a section of the supporters, then great. But we need to get there. I think we can all agree that politicising ITFC 1) happened, and 2) was wrong. Reform, the Greens, Labour, the Conservatives, or the Lib Dems, it doesn't matter. Should never happen. And parading them all through the club, one at a time isn't practical. No politics in ITFC. Period. Even the Reform voters should get onboard with that.
And if we can agree with that, then we make that message heard as loud and clear as possible. "Our club, not your politics", "Club, not campaign tool", "Scarves not rosettes" and yes, "Ashton Out". [Post edited 28 Mar 11:56]
|
I totally agree with this, unfortunately, I think it is for the birds. People will always want to use this to push their own agendas. At this point, it is neither here nor there that Reform happened to be the party involved. We have moved way beyond that (and, imho, it was never the issue anyway).
However, there will always be significant elements who will use Reform as the sole reason to beat the drum, at both ends of the spectrum. It is a sad reflection of the state of wider society. This will always undermine the real issues at play here, which is promoting politics of any stripe, subterfuge, gaslighting outright lying and all the trust that this has destroyed. | |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:22 - Mar 28 with 592 views | Guthrum |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:09 - Mar 28 by Blue_Uprising |
Maybe Forest Green Rovers and the values of the owner brought to the club there.
And clubs with an overtly political background like Rangers/Celtic, and Lazio etc
Not something in my lifetime I’d imagine ITFC to be embroiled in. |
I don't recall hearing of any protests at FGR (living moderately locally). There are quite a lot of green-inclined people in the Stroud area anyway. A bit of scoffing at going vegan, but no outright anger.
With Lazio and Rangers/Celtic, that is long-term and fan-driven (in the latter case, the clubs grew out of a pre-existing sectarian divide), not suddenly dropped from above by someone in the club hierarchy.
Edit: In many ways, club relocation is the closest parallel - but political/philosophical, rather than geographic. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:24]
| |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:28 - Mar 28 with 553 views | grow_our_own |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:21 - Mar 28 by TheMoralMajority |
I totally agree with this, unfortunately, I think it is for the birds. People will always want to use this to push their own agendas. At this point, it is neither here nor there that Reform happened to be the party involved. We have moved way beyond that (and, imho, it was never the issue anyway).
However, there will always be significant elements who will use Reform as the sole reason to beat the drum, at both ends of the spectrum. It is a sad reflection of the state of wider society. This will always undermine the real issues at play here, which is promoting politics of any stripe, subterfuge, gaslighting outright lying and all the trust that this has destroyed. |
"for the birds...elements who will use Reform as the sole reason to beat the drum" - where do my suggested slogans mention Reform? Pro-Reform people needn't hold the banners if they don't want, just not object to them. I don't think they'd have any reason to.
Maybe "Ashton Out" is one for a chant before or after matches, or outside the stadium. But those who feel strongly should feel heard. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:32]
| | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:33 - Mar 28 with 529 views | Pinewoodblue |
There is a chance this will escalate at some point in the next three hours although I really hope it doesn’t .
The ladies are kicking off in the next hour and I hope nothing else does.
The club is damaged enough, thanks to Ashton, we don’t need fans damaging things further. |  |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:34 - Mar 28 with 524 views | TheMoralMajority |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:28 - Mar 28 by grow_our_own |
"for the birds...elements who will use Reform as the sole reason to beat the drum" - where do my suggested slogans mention Reform? Pro-Reform people needn't hold the banners if they don't want, just not object to them. I don't think they'd have any reason to.
Maybe "Ashton Out" is one for a chant before or after matches, or outside the stadium. But those who feel strongly should feel heard. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:32]
|
"where do my suggested slogans mention Reform? "
They don't, and if your takeaway was that I was suggesting that you were, then that was not my intention at all, and I apologise. My wider point was, even at this late stage, people are still banging on about reform, and that is no longer (and never was) the issue (imho). That is not to suggest that you ever thought it was either. But for some, on both sides, it is the only issue. And extreme elements tend to bring out the worst in each other, even when attempting to push towards a common goal (I'm a natural cynic, I don't know if that is coming across  )
FWIW, my own limited action is that I have updated my signature and my avatar to make is very clear what I think of Mr Mark Ashton. It is a very small act which I suspect will have little or no impact, but it is just one thing I can think of where I can make my feelings known about the leadership, whilst still supporting the team. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:49]
| |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:41 - Mar 28 with 478 views | leitrimblue |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 10:36 - Mar 28 by farkenhell |
Very well put. Put simply, we're not going to get anything else from the club at least before the end of the season, so we now have a straight choice to make. Either support the manager and team, or risk harming the push for promotion. This was a problem of the club's own making, it could and should have been avoided, but we are where we are. |
90 minute chorus of Ipswich lives in racial harmony at Brum game? |  | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:44 - Mar 28 with 462 views | Guthrum |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:41 - Mar 28 by leitrimblue |
90 minute chorus of Ipswich lives in racial harmony at Brum game? |
That would be a good start. Or even at the Women's game today. | |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:46 - Mar 28 with 454 views | WeWereZombies |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:22 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
I don't recall hearing of any protests at FGR (living moderately locally). There are quite a lot of green-inclined people in the Stroud area anyway. A bit of scoffing at going vegan, but no outright anger.
With Lazio and Rangers/Celtic, that is long-term and fan-driven (in the latter case, the clubs grew out of a pre-existing sectarian divide), not suddenly dropped from above by someone in the club hierarchy.
Edit: In many ways, club relocation is the closest parallel - but political/philosophical, rather than geographic. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:24]
|
And then there's St Pauli and Hamburger SV ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ), Roma are a counter to Lazio's fascist element (In 1998, supporters displayed a banner reading, "Auschwitz is your town, the ovens are your houses," directed at rivals AS Roma. In 2017, some ultras displayed stickers of Anne Frank in a Roma shirt) and AC Milan are seen as left whilst Inter are right wing. There are probably even more extreme examples in Latin America. But all of these concern a city with two or more clubs whereas Town are just that, a smaller conurbation with one main club (sorry Hoppy, Wanderers have a nice little ground and clubhouse, are the turnstiles fixed yet ?) [Post edited 28 Mar 11:59]
|  |
| |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:58 - Mar 28 with 401 views | Blue_Uprising |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 11:22 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
I don't recall hearing of any protests at FGR (living moderately locally). There are quite a lot of green-inclined people in the Stroud area anyway. A bit of scoffing at going vegan, but no outright anger.
With Lazio and Rangers/Celtic, that is long-term and fan-driven (in the latter case, the clubs grew out of a pre-existing sectarian divide), not suddenly dropped from above by someone in the club hierarchy.
Edit: In many ways, club relocation is the closest parallel - but political/philosophical, rather than geographic. [Post edited 28 Mar 11:24]
|
Agree. The FGR is just an example of a club more recently starting on a very specific set of policies influenced by ownership - albeit un-controversial.
Unparalleled is probably a pretty appropriate word. Hence why I think it’s probably a big bigger than the get-over it group would like. | | | |
| It's a very unusual situation. on 12:00 - Mar 28 with 391 views | leitrimblue |
I know you wrote this well thought through post in attempt to move the board and club forward on a smother path. But can I just say that Tom Jones completely disagrees with and as taken exception to the title | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
