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Reply | Any gangs smashed yet?
at 15:56 13 Aug 2024
First of all - i just put up a solution because someone asked what would everyones idea be .... this is mine.
I think if it was announced and they started work on it and we could see progress being made then i don't think there would be any issues at all - i'm not daft enough to think these things happen overnight and in an ideal world the return to France policy would have French support and if it was explained to them that once the gangs see it happening and people see there is a safe route through the proper channels then hopefully the dingys would stop pretty quickly, maybe a few pick up and retuens would be needed to show them we arn't messing about - but it would stop the small boats juts like that.
i don't think the cost of a vessel and staff to do a once weekly crossing, an Asylum application / processing building with staff and facilities etc would cost any more than the Rwanda scheme in truth ..... |
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Reply | Any gangs smashed yet?
at 14:06 13 Aug 2024
If you're asking me to quote article 15a, subsection 12, paragraph 2 Lines 5 to 18 of the Mogrants return act 1857 .... i'm afraid you're going to be disapointed.
What i know is Reform have said that we are entitled to return them under international law and on various political shows both Labour and Conservative MPs have confirmed that is the case but they choose not to invoke it to ensure smooth relations with France.
If we created a safe passage as per my earlier thread and put (my suggestion 250) people that had been preliminarily assessed and given 90 day temporary visas in a proper boat on a regular weekly sailing then they wouldn't need to use dingys and if as part of that process we made it clear to everyone and especially France that if people DO come over on dingys they they would be returned then you've just put the gangs out of business |
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Reply | Any gangs smashed yet?
at 12:01 13 Aug 2024
If you read my whole thread and the previous one instead of jumping all over one sentence because i mentioned Reform - you'd see it was part of an idea to create a safe passage first THEN refuse any dingys ..... |
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Reply | Any gangs smashed yet?
at 10:31 13 Aug 2024
The people are jumping on dingys because there is no safe passage. If you create one and then say if you get on a dingy then the second you land in the UK border force will take you back to France then there is NO incentive for them to attempt it.
I agree the French have taken the p155 which is why we need to get tougher with them as well, and say you either take them back or we stop the payments - even tho as Reform have pointed out we are actually entitled to return them under international law ! |
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Reply | Any gangs smashed yet?
at 09:46 13 Aug 2024
As alot of you will know i've been pretty vocal on the immigration numbers - if you really want to stop the small boats (in my opinion) then we need to do the following:
1. make it so that anyone crossing on the small boats are immediately returned with no exception
2. set up a processing unit in Calais where people can go and apply for a temporary Asylum visa in the UK then an agreed number (i'd go for 250 a week) are given these 90 day Visas and we (along with the French) arrange a proper Boat to bring those 250 people over - once here, their 90 day visa gives them a bed, food and the chance to look for work ETC
3. those people are then given a proper application process at the end of their 90 day period and either given permanent asylum OR they are returned to France if they are rejected.
4. One of the big concerns i have (for security reasons) is with people tossing phones and their papers into the channel - why would you do this unless it's so you can't be identified ? so the final rule would be no papers, no asylum.
We need to stop the boats, we need to get the numbers under control and keep ourselves safe whilst also helping those who need it and for those who do need it the passage needs to be a proper and safe one ... i think the above idea achieves all those things. |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 20:36 9 Aug 2024
I’ve said on many a thread before during and after the election that SOME immigration is a good thing, I don’t want to live in a country with a closed door to the outside.
I just think the current numbers are simply not sustainable and I want a system where we do accept a decent number of migrants but where it isn’t a free for all like it is at the moment.
I think the number I gave 100,000 is a decent and fair number and I think the powers that be should decide how many are refugees, how many are students, how many come on work visas.
And yes I want Starmer to get a grip of the current numbers because being honest (and I think there are a lot of a similar mindset) if I had to pick either a free for all or not at all - I’d pick not at all |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 19:54 9 Aug 2024
If Starmer invests in education as he says he wants to then we should be able (in time) to train our own doctors, teachers, nurses etc and not be so reliant on immigrants to fill those roles, I think we should be investing in our youngsters and complimenting them with immigrants.
And yes, I get that won’t happen overnight but neither will the drop in immigration l, in my ideal world one should go up as the other comes down over the next 10 years.
I think 100,000 is a decent number when you think before 1997 we got by on half that |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 17:42 9 Aug 2024
My OPINION is that the nett total number should be 100,000 how that number is distributed between work / study visas, asylum seekers etc is down to those who make the rules. |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 17:06 9 Aug 2024
Look, the number is 700,000 and wether they came on a visa or not, wether they arrived by plane, boat or bl00dy unicorn or they dig a sodding tunnel.
The number is too high and is unsustainable- simple as that |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 15:01 9 Aug 2024
The number of people that came in last year was around the 700,000 mark - i don't know exactly where each and every one of them is i'm afraid.
However, the relevance of that particular comment to my overall point isn't that great tho is it ?
The conservatives stopped accepting or processing application - that is FACT !
therefore the number of applications made against the actual number of people is not going to show an accurate picture is it ? |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 14:35 9 Aug 2024
We both know thats cr@p because the fantastic former Tory government stopped processing claims so theres several hundred thousand people in hotels that haven't been processed, and no - before you say it i'm not saying thats their fault at all but if every person who had come in had been allowed to put in a claim then the actual number of applications would be ten times that easily.
it does re-emphisise a point i made earlier tho, the Tories were and still are effing useless and for people like me who do 'sit on the right' it's very difficult at elections because who the hell do you vote for ? The conservatives were unelectable, I'm not naturally a Labour supporter and Reform while i agree with alot of what they say i find their solutions too extreme ..... as i said at the time i actually voted Labour because i hoped they would deal with peoples concerns without having to take things to extremes but again for people like me if Labour don't get a grip on the immigration numbers, if they do take us back into closer ties with Europe and ignore the referendum result then next time i WILL vote for Farage because i'm literally exhausted all other avenues |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 13:33 9 Aug 2024
This is the problem while you're pointing and going "you're worse than us" nothing is getting resolved is it ? BOTH sides had people who said and did deplorable things and i'm sure that Labour councillor doesn't represent your views any more than the violent and idiotic yobs represent mine.
Jayessess - i don't think any of the incidents that have been witnessed should just be handwaved away, i hope anyone who has attacked mosques and hotels is put away for a very long time, but there is a perception that ANYONE who has any concern about immigration is a far right racist and that simply isn't true.
What we need is for Starmer to give straight answers to straight questions
- what will he do to bring unsustainable numbers down ?
- what will he do about the small boats ?
- what will he do about people who have their applications rejected, where will they go if they can't be deported back to their home lands ?
as i've said before i don't and i'm sure many other people who 'sit on the right' don't think all immigrants are rapists, thugs and trouble makers but there are some and what i want is for the ones who are genuine refugees and asylum seekers to be processed and put into the system at a sensible level, not at 700,000 a year but more like 100,000 and integrated into society i also want the boat loads of people who are throwing passports and phones into the channel to be rejected because you have to ask yourself why they're doing that - the only possible reason is because they don't want to be identified.
We are an island at the end of the day and immigration at 700,000 a year is simply not sustainable, we don't have the housing, the infrastructure, the NHS or anything that can support that kind of number. |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 12:03 9 Aug 2024
I thought referring to them several times as idiots with unsavoury views was pretty self explanatory but obviously not !
Re: Farage - i didn't mean you personally, i ment the very left wing mainstream media we have in this country - Farage went on question time before the election in a half hour slot and spent 20 minutes of it having to repeatedly say he wasn't a racist - this was after he'd condemned the people and removed them from the party .... i doubt Starmer will have those issues.
also, there is no 'lashing out' all and if you don't think i'm explaining myself then you clearly arn't listening because i've done nothing but explain myself but i'll do it again ....
The people on the 'far right' who went out and did the things they did - they are wrong, they are idiots and i completely and utterly condemn what they did BUT the 'other side' has also shown it has people with extreme views who have done and said unsavoury things as well and until BOTH sides admit they have these people and actually sit down and discuss the issues such as immigration then no progress on stopping it is going to be made. |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 11:09 9 Aug 2024
I think i did address that - i said i think they they took over what was a planned protest in much the same way the Free palestine bridage took over your counter protest
and yes, lefties have condemned the labour representatives and rightly so - in exactly the same way Farage condemned the Reform people with unsavoury views but the big difference is you think once you've condemned it that's fine and its dealt with but when Farage or Reform condemn it thats not enough and you don't accept that.
As i said both sides need to accept they have idiots who go to extremes rather than everyone on the left doing their usual finger pointing and saying it's all the 'far right' and claiming that they are whiter than white then we arn't going to get anywhere.
it's actually ironic you repeatedly referring to them as 'Nazi's" tho when it's actually the far left with the anti-semetic views that the Nazi's held ........ |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 09:45 9 Aug 2024
Again, a very lazy and incorrect narrative - the people who were found to be unsavoury were also kicked out of Reform.
Unfortunately you all think that only Reform attracts these 'characters' but before you jump on that bandwagon i think it's pretty clear that every political party has them, the reason you only think it's Reform is because thats generally all that gets reported but on top of these Labour people, ad the anti semetic issue that was rife within the Party under Corbyn, plus the candidates the Greens had to stand down as well.
Again, with the riots it's clear that the 'far right' took over what was ment to be a protest much in the same way the 'free palestine' groups took over your 'counter protests'
Here's the thing, nobody is going to get anywhere while Labour and it's supporters continue to stick their heads up their own ar$es and belive their own BS that it's ONLY the 'far right' in the wrong. when over the last week people from BOTH sides have gone way too far - Muslims Armed themselves and went out onto the streets and yes whilst i understand they felt threatened in Starmers words there was 'NO EXCUSE' for doing so, the police were there and by arming themselves and also taking to the streets they are putting themselves in the wrong as well. They invaded a pub and beat people up as well but again, you don't hear about any of that because it doesn't fit your narrative.
The 'Free palestine' people also had weapons and were cheering a Labour Counciller for calling to slash peoples throats.
so don't tell me this is all one way - it isn't ! |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 20:51 8 Aug 2024
I’m pretty sure we’re on a thread where a Labour MP has shown some very unsavoury views and in the news there’s a Labour Councillor encouraging throat slashing
So please don’t tell me Reform are the only ones full of people like that
What you need to understand is that all sides of the argument have people who say extreme things, do extreme things and behave like animals - at the moment you seem to think it’s all one way and your side behaves impeccable all the time. |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 20:39 8 Aug 2024
Like the conservatives before you, you’re simply not listening. Either that or you don’t want to or you just want to twist whatever I say to suit your own narrative
I’m not condoning what the idiots did and I’m sure there were SOME far right extremists but not everyone who has an issue is a far right extremist
The earlier post said in ‘your’ counter protests there were idiots who did stupid things and took it too far and what you’re saying is that’s fine and not everyone who was on THAT protest is a ‘far left extremist” but because there were idiots who did stupid things and took it too far on the original protest everyone on it is a far right extremist ???
Once again like everyone on the left it’s finger pointing and labelling instead of actually listening and trying to solve the issue [Post edited 8 Aug 2024 20:42]
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 20:03 8 Aug 2024
I just want to add - I voted Labour at the last election even tho my political views are more to the right. Why did I vote Labour then you may ask …. Well the conservatives are absolutely useless and I felt Farage and Reform were too extreme in what they wanted to do - for example I think immigration levels are too high and unsustainable, do I want to stop immigration altogether? No i don’t because some immigrants are a good thing, they work hard they contribute to the economy and they do important jobs …. But do I want 700,000 a year and loads of unidentifiable men jumping off small boats by the thousand ? No I don’t
So i took a leap of faith that Starmer would do something about it. Now all I’m hearing from him and people on here that people with my views are far right racists. So what are the likes of me and I’m guessing other voters in my position going to do at the next election? We’ll go and it’s for Farage cos there is literally nothing else left to do to have our concerns taken seriously |
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Reply | Lauren Edwards MP: chortle
at 19:50 8 Aug 2024
No it isn’t - that’s just jumping on the bandwagon and lazily labelling everyone with the same brush.
As the previous poster said on ANY protest you’ll always get idiots who take things too far it doesn’t mean the ones who DO behave themselves don’t have a point. There were idiots who took things at the counter protests as well but nobody is labelling them as far left extremeists are they ??
Starmers view and seemingly yours and alot of people on this message board is that ANYONE who thinks immigration is an issue is a “far right racist” and it’s simply not true and it’s that narrative that is causing the frustration, yes many of the people are “on the right” with their political views but you and everyone else needs to accept that political views don’t go from Left, to centre left, to centre to FAR right …… |
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