| Hmmm 20:12 - Jan 10 with 8237 views | FrimleyBlue |
Now this could be utter utter bulsht
But. One of my lads, his cousin plays for youths and TM is initials running the rounds at the club. Any links have we had? |  |
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| Hmmm on 22:56 - Jan 10 with 1326 views | jeera |
I've not looked at this thread and have no idea of the content, but I can see it's you and I can read the word bullsheet without any further investigation.
That's near enough. |  |
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| Hmmm on 22:56 - Jan 10 with 1323 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 22:41 - Jan 10 by ElderGrizzly |
I've not said we have a Top 10 wage though. I've just said our wage bill has increased, which the accounts will prove in 12 months.
Milne does spin some things, that's his job, but it's rather cringeworthy to see the vitriol you have for someone (Milne) much closer to the truth of our finances than you are
I'll bookmark the post and we'll look at the accounts in 12 months.
You appear to be slowly turning into a mini-taximan which is rather sad. You're better than that. Get some sleep and calm down a bit :)
[Post edited 10 Jan 2017 22:44]
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It might have gone up. But it still hasn't gone up enough on permanent transfers. Which was my point if you look back through the thread. Go on. Have a look and you'll see.
I don't hate Milne. I simply don't believe him after he claimed our wage bill is top 10 in this league. That's not the case in my opinion.
You've said the last bit, and especially mentioned taxi man, to get a reaction out of me. And you know it. But I won't bite.
Not tired at all. I'll still be awake in 5/6 hours time.
I don't know why you get so defensive when people criticise that we don't spend enough to be competitive. Is that opinion not allowed? |  |
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| Hmmm on 22:57 - Jan 10 with 1318 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 22:56 - Jan 10 by jeera |
I've not looked at this thread and have no idea of the content, but I can see it's you and I can read the word bullsheet without any further investigation.
That's near enough. |
Ironically the content of the thread has nothing to do with the OP | |
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| Hmmm on 23:02 - Jan 10 with 1289 views | Superfrans |
| Hmmm on 22:36 - Jan 10 by ElderGrizzly |
Yep realise when they were cut off. It's rather silly to lie about it though, as it will be in the accounts in 12 months.
But yes, he is predicting the wage bill will be 15% higher than at the end of last season. |
Not saying he lies about it deliberately. Just shoots from the hip, more than anything else.
I don't believe our wages this season would be 15% higher than last, at this point - especially given we've saved 4/5 months of Murphy's wages, probably one of the biggest at the club.
Total budget, given we will have paid significant loan fees for Lawrence and Williams, will be higher than people expect though. I do agree that it's not all about transfer fees.
What a lot of people seem to miss is that the profit and loss figures each year take into account transfer fees we've brought in, so they are on the whole swallowed up by other outgoings.
The only exception is in 14-15 when we made a £6m profit, which is essentially £12m more than our standard annual loss, so is arguably £12m which could/should have been spent on new players/fees etc.
Equally, of course, you could argue that given that it followed multiple years of losses averaging about £6m a year, Evans was entitled to not take such a hit in one year. However, it's also true that £12m player investment for a club on the budgets we have could have been (could still be) transformational. |  |
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| Hmmm on 23:03 - Jan 10 with 1283 views | jeera |
| Hmmm on 22:57 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
Ironically the content of the thread has nothing to do with the OP |
Whatever it is, he's made it up. | |
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| Hmmm on 23:03 - Jan 10 with 1274 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Hmmm on 20:33 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
If we don't spend the money in this window, we won't spend it at all
That's how it is unfortunately |
I don't agree with that.
I think it's a massive possibility we will wait until the summer to spend in order to avoid 'inflated prices'. |  |
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| Hmmm on 23:07 - Jan 10 with 1261 views | gtsb1966 |
| Hmmm on 23:03 - Jan 10 by RoyKeanesDog |
I don't agree with that.
I think it's a massive possibility we will wait until the summer to spend in order to avoid 'inflated prices'. |
Big gamble though isn't it. I'm still not convinced we will be in this division come the summer. We've seen it happen to lots of clubs who we thought it couldn't happen to and sadly we are on a downward spiral. I just hope I'm wrong. |  | | |
| Hmmm on 23:12 - Jan 10 with 1236 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 23:03 - Jan 10 by RoyKeanesDog |
I don't agree with that.
I think it's a massive possibility we will wait until the summer to spend in order to avoid 'inflated prices'. |
But we didn't with the Cresswell or Mings money?
At least the difference this time is mick knows we NEED a striker and he has said we will try this window.
I have zero confidence that the money will be there if we wait till the summer | |
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| Hmmm on 23:17 - Jan 10 with 1207 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Hmmm on 22:56 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
It might have gone up. But it still hasn't gone up enough on permanent transfers. Which was my point if you look back through the thread. Go on. Have a look and you'll see.
I don't hate Milne. I simply don't believe him after he claimed our wage bill is top 10 in this league. That's not the case in my opinion.
You've said the last bit, and especially mentioned taxi man, to get a reaction out of me. And you know it. But I won't bite.
Not tired at all. I'll still be awake in 5/6 hours time.
I don't know why you get so defensive when people criticise that we don't spend enough to be competitive. Is that opinion not allowed? |
I have agreed with your point on transfer spending twice here already. And i agree we should spend more on transfer fees, but also recognise what is realistic.
However it was being implied we haven't spent the money received, but we have, just not how most of would choose to. It's important to understand Mick has a playing budget, not a transfer budget in isolation. He then agrees with Evans how to split that.
You said our wage bill hasn't gone up, it has. That's my man point of disagreement. Now you're saying it probably has, which is progress :)
I didn't say that to get you to bite, i said it as an observation. Probably childish, but so is writing "bullsh1t" in capitals. So, sorry.
My defensiveness is when people say we haven't spent what we receive, when the accounts show we usually do (and normally £7m more). That's all.
Again, i agree we don't spend enough to compete with the top 6 on paper. I've said that multiple times too. We need a different plan to compete, a functioning academy, a manager linking the two and a bit of luck.
Or as i said yesterday, a short-term plan from a new owner with £200m+ to kiss goodbye to over the next 5 years (including buying out Evans) |  | | |
| Hmmm on 23:19 - Jan 10 with 1200 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Hmmm on 23:12 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
But we didn't with the Cresswell or Mings money?
At least the difference this time is mick knows we NEED a striker and he has said we will try this window.
I have zero confidence that the money will be there if we wait till the summer |
Where will the money go then, as not a single penny has ever left the club under Evans?
Have zero confidence of course, that's your right, but it's consistently disproven by our accounts every year.
The money may not be spent how you like, but it is kept within the club every season
[Post edited 10 Jan 2017 23:22]
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| Hmmm on 23:25 - Jan 10 with 1167 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 23:17 - Jan 10 by ElderGrizzly |
I have agreed with your point on transfer spending twice here already. And i agree we should spend more on transfer fees, but also recognise what is realistic.
However it was being implied we haven't spent the money received, but we have, just not how most of would choose to. It's important to understand Mick has a playing budget, not a transfer budget in isolation. He then agrees with Evans how to split that.
You said our wage bill hasn't gone up, it has. That's my man point of disagreement. Now you're saying it probably has, which is progress :)
I didn't say that to get you to bite, i said it as an observation. Probably childish, but so is writing "bullsh1t" in capitals. So, sorry.
My defensiveness is when people say we haven't spent what we receive, when the accounts show we usually do (and normally £7m more). That's all.
Again, i agree we don't spend enough to compete with the top 6 on paper. I've said that multiple times too. We need a different plan to compete, a functioning academy, a manager linking the two and a bit of luck.
Or as i said yesterday, a short-term plan from a new owner with £200m+ to kiss goodbye to over the next 5 years (including buying out Evans) |
The wage budget, even if going up, hasn't gone up a huge amount to cover 3m for the Murphy fee.
You also said for three players we spent 2m in total of the Murphy money. But magically ignored the money we got by releasing about 7-10 players in the recent months. Including the 10k-15k or whatever in Murphs wages.
You can't include the loan wages of the players we've brought in but not include the wages of the players we let go.
I think Milne lied when he said we are in the top 10 on wages.
We agree that we need to spend more on fees to be competitive.
So I don't know why this has happened other than you randomly bringing up the 'I've been a season ticket holder since before he was born' line out of absolutely nothing. And then mentioning taximan. People on here have slated you in the past like when you left saying you are a stirrer but i was someone hoping you'd come back.
And now for some reason you have gone looking for a row with me? Or a bite maybe? It's a bit weird MER. You're a good poster and I understand why you back the club and Milne and Evans so much but this has been very weird in the last hour. | |
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| Hmmm on 23:26 - Jan 10 with 1158 views | Barneycurley |
| Hmmm on 23:02 - Jan 10 by Superfrans |
Not saying he lies about it deliberately. Just shoots from the hip, more than anything else.
I don't believe our wages this season would be 15% higher than last, at this point - especially given we've saved 4/5 months of Murphy's wages, probably one of the biggest at the club.
Total budget, given we will have paid significant loan fees for Lawrence and Williams, will be higher than people expect though. I do agree that it's not all about transfer fees.
What a lot of people seem to miss is that the profit and loss figures each year take into account transfer fees we've brought in, so they are on the whole swallowed up by other outgoings.
The only exception is in 14-15 when we made a £6m profit, which is essentially £12m more than our standard annual loss, so is arguably £12m which could/should have been spent on new players/fees etc.
Equally, of course, you could argue that given that it followed multiple years of losses averaging about £6m a year, Evans was entitled to not take such a hit in one year. However, it's also true that £12m player investment for a club on the budgets we have could have been (could still be) transformational. |
The problem with the last para is as an owner i believe you need to aspire. Balancimg the books before you've got where you need to get to doesnt really cut it unfortunately.
You need as an owner be more single minded which i dont think hes been of recent years, hence our stagnation and now apparent decline. |  |
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| Hmmm on 23:27 - Jan 10 with 1148 views | WicklowBlue |
| Hmmm on 23:12 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
But we didn't with the Cresswell or Mings money?
At least the difference this time is mick knows we NEED a striker and he has said we will try this window.
I have zero confidence that the money will be there if we wait till the summer |
I have zero confidence that we will have "money" to spend in any transfer window.
Not that you need money to spend wisely and still improve a squad. But you do need the scouts and intel to spot an up and coming player which I will put out there that by and large we have done well from in the past couple of seasons. Likewise we have seen other clubs spend millions on both transfers and wage bills without being promoted.
On a side point I do think we missed a huge opportunity in Jan 2015 to push on. But something I havent seen mentioned is in my opinion the players that exited at the end of the season to facilitate a better brand of football hurt us more.
But as called out previously, we digress from the OP. |  | | |
| Hmmm on 23:28 - Jan 10 with 1144 views | BorisOrTrevor |
| Hmmm on 22:52 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
I am chilled. Why do people say that? Of course I'm chilled. It's only MER and he hasn't said anything offensive. We are just debating a topic. Both adults.
I don't think I've done that at all. |
Tell them to eff off, on this one you are right.
Spin lies and more spin from Evans and his mob. Mick does as he is told and he picks up his yummy salary for another 18 months.
Player sales are making the club break even, when the accounts come out you will see that net, over 4 years, he will have put next to nowt in whilst adding interest to the debt over that same period. I will have a wager of pounds 1 on it with anybody who argues contrary!
The only way this will not happen is if we change manager or he has a complete turnaround in attitude. |  |
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| Hmmm on 23:28 - Jan 10 with 1143 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Hmmm on 23:07 - Jan 10 by gtsb1966 |
Big gamble though isn't it. I'm still not convinced we will be in this division come the summer. We've seen it happen to lots of clubs who we thought it couldn't happen to and sadly we are on a downward spiral. I just hope I'm wrong. |
I really don't think we'll go down. | |
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| Hmmm on 23:29 - Jan 10 with 1138 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 23:19 - Jan 10 by ElderGrizzly |
Where will the money go then, as not a single penny has ever left the club under Evans?
Have zero confidence of course, that's your right, but it's consistently disproven by our accounts every year.
The money may not be spent how you like, but it is kept within the club every season
[Post edited 10 Jan 2017 23:22]
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It may not be leaving the club.
But it means he just has to plump less in every year.
It still doesn't mean we replace quality with quality though does it? | |
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| Hmmm on 23:31 - Jan 10 with 1125 views | RoyKeanesDog |
| Hmmm on 23:12 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
But we didn't with the Cresswell or Mings money?
At least the difference this time is mick knows we NEED a striker and he has said we will try this window.
I have zero confidence that the money will be there if we wait till the summer |
That wasn't what you said though.
You said if we don't spend in January then we won't spend in the summer.
I'm not saying we'll definitely spend money, although I think we'll spend at least a couple of million in 2017, I'm saying that there is a chance we'll still spend in the summer if we don't this window. | |
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| Hmmm on 23:33 - Jan 10 with 1125 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 23:28 - Jan 10 by BorisOrTrevor |
Tell them to eff off, on this one you are right.
Spin lies and more spin from Evans and his mob. Mick does as he is told and he picks up his yummy salary for another 18 months.
Player sales are making the club break even, when the accounts come out you will see that net, over 4 years, he will have put next to nowt in whilst adding interest to the debt over that same period. I will have a wager of pounds 1 on it with anybody who argues contrary!
The only way this will not happen is if we change manager or he has a complete turnaround in attitude. |
I wouldn't tell him to fook off. It's only a disagreement. A debate even.
He's not got personal or anything like that.
Unfortunately MER and me completely disagree about Evans. I think he is the cause of our problems whereas he thinks the problem is mick. | |
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| Hmmm on 23:33 - Jan 10 with 1122 views | 12th_Man |
Twelve man |  |
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| Hmmm on 23:34 - Jan 10 with 1115 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Hmmm on 23:31 - Jan 10 by RoyKeanesDog |
That wasn't what you said though.
You said if we don't spend in January then we won't spend in the summer.
I'm not saying we'll definitely spend money, although I think we'll spend at least a couple of million in 2017, I'm saying that there is a chance we'll still spend in the summer if we don't this window. |
That's what I'm saying.. We won't spend in the summer.
It's now or never IMO. | |
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| Hmmm on 23:36 - Jan 10 with 1106 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Hmmm on 23:25 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
The wage budget, even if going up, hasn't gone up a huge amount to cover 3m for the Murphy fee.
You also said for three players we spent 2m in total of the Murphy money. But magically ignored the money we got by releasing about 7-10 players in the recent months. Including the 10k-15k or whatever in Murphs wages.
You can't include the loan wages of the players we've brought in but not include the wages of the players we let go.
I think Milne lied when he said we are in the top 10 on wages.
We agree that we need to spend more on fees to be competitive.
So I don't know why this has happened other than you randomly bringing up the 'I've been a season ticket holder since before he was born' line out of absolutely nothing. And then mentioning taximan. People on here have slated you in the past like when you left saying you are a stirrer but i was someone hoping you'd come back.
And now for some reason you have gone looking for a row with me? Or a bite maybe? It's a bit weird MER. You're a good poster and I understand why you back the club and Milne and Evans so much but this has been very weird in the last hour. |
Weird? I didn't bring you up in the thread originally and i'm not looking for an argument. I thought someone was having a pop at me not being a fan and they said you were one, so jokingly i said i'd been a fan longer than you'd been alive. Not a dig at you, just a fact!
If you read my threads carefully, as others have done, you will see i've addressed every point, including your one on players wages leaving the club. It's factored in.
I agreed with you about Top 10, but you're throwing that back at me when you brought it up?! My estimate based on the accounts and Swiss Ramble's calculations is 12th largest, but we'll see later this year.
I've never said we've spent the Murphy money at all. Not once. Those wages/fees for those loan players were prior to any money for Murphy being spent.
I'm not stirring, you seem to be reading too much into things on here at the moment.
And i'm not defending Milne or Evans in my view, i'm just using the facts we know to counter an argument which has been made. | | | |
| Hmmm on 23:36 - Jan 10 with 1106 views | BorisOrTrevor |
| Hmmm on 23:33 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
I wouldn't tell him to fook off. It's only a disagreement. A debate even.
He's not got personal or anything like that.
Unfortunately MER and me completely disagree about Evans. I think he is the cause of our problems whereas he thinks the problem is mick. |
It was tongue in cheek. Metaphorically tell him to eff off. Didn't mean in a snarly I'm gonna kill you kinda way! | |
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| Hmmm on 23:38 - Jan 10 with 1097 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Hmmm on 23:28 - Jan 10 by BorisOrTrevor |
Tell them to eff off, on this one you are right.
Spin lies and more spin from Evans and his mob. Mick does as he is told and he picks up his yummy salary for another 18 months.
Player sales are making the club break even, when the accounts come out you will see that net, over 4 years, he will have put next to nowt in whilst adding interest to the debt over that same period. I will have a wager of pounds 1 on it with anybody who argues contrary!
The only way this will not happen is if we change manager or he has a complete turnaround in attitude. |
It's against FL rules for him to add interest to the debt. It has been for 5 years or so now. Phil covered this, as have others.
We run the same ownership model as Brighton, just on a smaller scale, who now owe their owner £170m. All debt, no equity. | | | |
| Hmmm on 23:41 - Jan 10 with 1090 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Hmmm on 23:29 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
It may not be leaving the club.
But it means he just has to plump less in every year.
It still doesn't mean we replace quality with quality though does it? |
We've made a profit in one season in the last 10 years i believe? He's lost £70m in that time.
But agree, it is difficult to replace a Mings who you've sold for £8m with someone equal. But that's what we've always been like as a club sadly.
It's becoming harder to find those next gens though, with big clubs stockpiling youngsters. So we need to grow our own or scout the next Webster and hope we can afford him [Post edited 10 Jan 2017 23:45]
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| Hmmm on 23:44 - Jan 10 with 1085 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Hmmm on 23:33 - Jan 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
I wouldn't tell him to fook off. It's only a disagreement. A debate even.
He's not got personal or anything like that.
Unfortunately MER and me completely disagree about Evans. I think he is the cause of our problems whereas he thinks the problem is mick. |
I don't think it's solely Mick. I think it's a combination of the two and have done and said so for a long time. | | | |
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