| How quickly can opinions change 09:07 - Feb 3 with 3649 views | maccyd9 |
I've never been a fan of Evans but also for a long period have wanted Mick out. I guess I wasn't quite sure who to blame the most so plumped for the easiest target.
That pathetic transfer window has really made me realise that in fact I'm probably more of a Mick inner than I ever thought I could be and I'm actually happy to admit I was wrong.
Evans is an atrocious owner, offers Mick zero by way of financial support and sit's back and let's him take all the flak for his un-ambitious and at times arrogant approach to owning our brilliant club.
I could never understand the view of others when they used to trot out "be careful what you wish for" but for the first time I actually found myself saying it to someone else.
Until Evans goes we need someone who can somehow keep us out of League 1. That is where our ambition is aligned to now and there is probably no man better suited to that than Mick.
We need to get Evans out & it has to happen before his arrogance towards us as fans and OUR club ruins us forever.
Evans out. |  | | |  |
| How quickly can opinions change on 11:15 - Feb 3 with 1544 views | Weekender |
| How quickly can opinions change on 10:45 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
Was never the right signing, is a decent sub option but doesn't have the physicality to start - as he showed at Bournemouth
Murphy should have bee replaced/backed up a long time before which Mick and Marcus between them are to blame for - it's hard to know the balance of that though as Mick may have wanted to whereas there wasn't the budget there. We'll never know.
But between them they needed to replace in August, that they haven't in january is a shambles and to me it's because a deal can't be closed. |
Pitman played the number 10 roll at Bournemouth and rotated that with Yan Kermorgant. They played behind Callum Wilson or Tekelo Rantie/Kenwyn Jones who lead the line. Pitman's never been able to play no 9.
Mick has assembled numerous no 10's this season: Pitman, McG, Williams, Lawrence, but no one who can do Murphy's job at no 9. |  |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 12:05 - Feb 3 with 1522 views | Guthrum |
| How quickly can opinions change on 10:50 - Feb 3 by caught-in-limbo |
This is classic TWTD.
The team has served up a pretty shocking show from September though to now. Yes, Mick isn't the one on the pitch, but the buck stops with him with regards to who plays and how they play week in week out. This is not a team he has just inherited.
The transfer window is over, we didn't sign anyone, Mick goes all tail-between-the-legs and some people go all gooey, feel sorry for him and sharpen the knives for ME.
I'm not saying ME isn't to blame to some extent but if I was the owner of this club I wouldn't trust Mick's judgement on any more expensive signings based on the product that gets served up on a weekly basis and the likelihood that he'll be off at the end of the season.
I'd save up my money for the next manager that comes in. |
You say the buck stops with him regarding who to play, but there are limited options available.
I don't like to see Douglas being brought on when a game's in the balance, but if the defensive side needs shoring up, who else is availble? Throw on a physically lightweight attacker like Bru or young Dozzell instead and it makes us even more open.
Same as playing Sears out wide last season. With Fraser injured, who else was there (of sufficient quality to at least do the job)?
McCarthy can only use the tools he has available. If your budget is limited to B&Q's value range, you're not going to get the same performance as expensive Makita, altho they can be perfectly adequate if not placed under too much stress or heavy use.
This is a long-term issue. The club stopped spending much on transfer fees back during Jewell's tenure.
That's not to say McCarthy is blameless for our current situation. His set-ups are often too conservative for my liking (or, occasionally, alarmingly far the other way, as on Tuesday). But, as results during most of his four-and-a-bit years show (even excluding his career prior to Ipswich), McCarthy's judgement is mostly pretty sound at this level. |  |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 12:26 - Feb 3 with 1500 views | pickles110564 |
| How quickly can opinions change on 09:22 - Feb 3 by ITFC_Forever |
I don't think it's lies or propaganda.... just our valuations don't match the current market rate.
Sticking to FFP (or hiding behind it) and refusing to pay more than our valuation is all very noble, but it doesn't bring in decent players. |
More like they knew how much would get rejected but the amount still seemed high to keep us fans happy whilst the window was open. |  | | |
| How quickly can opinions change on 14:16 - Feb 3 with 1482 views | ClausThomsen |
| How quickly can opinions change on 12:05 - Feb 3 by Guthrum |
You say the buck stops with him regarding who to play, but there are limited options available.
I don't like to see Douglas being brought on when a game's in the balance, but if the defensive side needs shoring up, who else is availble? Throw on a physically lightweight attacker like Bru or young Dozzell instead and it makes us even more open.
Same as playing Sears out wide last season. With Fraser injured, who else was there (of sufficient quality to at least do the job)?
McCarthy can only use the tools he has available. If your budget is limited to B&Q's value range, you're not going to get the same performance as expensive Makita, altho they can be perfectly adequate if not placed under too much stress or heavy use.
This is a long-term issue. The club stopped spending much on transfer fees back during Jewell's tenure.
That's not to say McCarthy is blameless for our current situation. His set-ups are often too conservative for my liking (or, occasionally, alarmingly far the other way, as on Tuesday). But, as results during most of his four-and-a-bit years show (even excluding his career prior to Ipswich), McCarthy's judgement is mostly pretty sound at this level. |
It wasn't Douglas' sub appearances that are the root of the booing, it was his constant selection and the team's performance with him in the side. He was being picked ahead of Bishop, Bru and Dozzell for home matches. Matches where we barely created chances, let alone score or win. Our fans worked out we get less that 1 point per game with him in the side compared to nearly 2 without (until recently), and opposing team's fans were filming him for twitter lols.
He brought him on when we were 1-0 down at halftime to Huddersfield...
Mick signed Tommy Oar who had undoubted pedigree and had played well for other managers. He isn't the first player under McCarthy to get "homesick". Stewart played well in the 2 appearances he was given, and was a big signing for MM - what happened there is anyone's guess. Sears was scoring regularly and when a strikers doing that you don't mess with it. The Sears conversion has been a blunder however you look at it.
McCarthy is an experienced manager and picks his tools, if someone is so integral to his system as 33 year old Murphy then he shouldn't be entering seasons with no-one to cover him. If Kieffer Moore's a development player then why is he only being brought in so late? There should be 2+ players of this mould waiting for a chance if Murphy's out if his absence cripples us to this extent. There's plenty of big 6 foot targetmen out there with potential and if our style is so dependent on these players then we should be well stocked up. It's like a carpenter going to work in a desolate place and taking just the one hacksaw. And then using his chisel to saw things.
A constant theme of Evans' tenure is the fans wanting to chuck money at it, and when Evans has he's had absolutely no return and more holes in the boat. Not one big signing has worked for Evans. A constant theme of McCarthy's career is that no matter how much money he chucks at it, the style of play doesn't improve.
We could have said a dignified 'thank you and goodbye' after Lincoln. It's sad that things are left by ME to get so ugly and desperate before he'll do the right thing. | | | |
| How quickly can opinions change on 15:00 - Feb 3 with 1464 views | hadleighboyblue |
| How quickly can opinions change on 10:45 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
Was never the right signing, is a decent sub option but doesn't have the physicality to start - as he showed at Bournemouth
Murphy should have bee replaced/backed up a long time before which Mick and Marcus between them are to blame for - it's hard to know the balance of that though as Mick may have wanted to whereas there wasn't the budget there. We'll never know.
But between them they needed to replace in August, that they haven't in january is a shambles and to me it's because a deal can't be closed. |
The whole club is in a serious mess .
Invisible owner who seems to have no idea of what to do
Lapdog Milne who is in denial of any problems , promises signings that never happen
Demoralised manager and that takes some doing of an old fighter like MM
Clueless coaching , tactically naïve
Demoralised Captain
Underperforming team
and Disappearing fans
Has it ever been this bad at ITFC
This club is only going one way .
Like some others I'm realising that this situation is not down to MM alone and I'm not sure a new manager will manage to turn this around as things stand . | | | |
| How quickly can opinions change on 15:04 - Feb 3 with 1456 views | itfcjoe |
| How quickly can opinions change on 14:16 - Feb 3 by ClausThomsen |
It wasn't Douglas' sub appearances that are the root of the booing, it was his constant selection and the team's performance with him in the side. He was being picked ahead of Bishop, Bru and Dozzell for home matches. Matches where we barely created chances, let alone score or win. Our fans worked out we get less that 1 point per game with him in the side compared to nearly 2 without (until recently), and opposing team's fans were filming him for twitter lols.
He brought him on when we were 1-0 down at halftime to Huddersfield...
Mick signed Tommy Oar who had undoubted pedigree and had played well for other managers. He isn't the first player under McCarthy to get "homesick". Stewart played well in the 2 appearances he was given, and was a big signing for MM - what happened there is anyone's guess. Sears was scoring regularly and when a strikers doing that you don't mess with it. The Sears conversion has been a blunder however you look at it.
McCarthy is an experienced manager and picks his tools, if someone is so integral to his system as 33 year old Murphy then he shouldn't be entering seasons with no-one to cover him. If Kieffer Moore's a development player then why is he only being brought in so late? There should be 2+ players of this mould waiting for a chance if Murphy's out if his absence cripples us to this extent. There's plenty of big 6 foot targetmen out there with potential and if our style is so dependent on these players then we should be well stocked up. It's like a carpenter going to work in a desolate place and taking just the one hacksaw. And then using his chisel to saw things.
A constant theme of Evans' tenure is the fans wanting to chuck money at it, and when Evans has he's had absolutely no return and more holes in the boat. Not one big signing has worked for Evans. A constant theme of McCarthy's career is that no matter how much money he chucks at it, the style of play doesn't improve.
We could have said a dignified 'thank you and goodbye' after Lincoln. It's sad that things are left by ME to get so ugly and desperate before he'll do the right thing. |
I love how you don't give McCarthy one iota of credit - he has clearly done much more good than bad for ITFC, and especially Marcus Evans.
You say Tommy Oar was 'homesick' as though he wasn't - he then signed for Brisbane Roar back in his home state of Queensland. I'd have liked to see Oar get more chances, and sure there is something in the fact he wasn't playing that exacerbated his homesickness - but to blame the manager when the player subsequently goes home afterwards is a bit silly.
Sears may have been scoring regularly up front - but the partnership of Murphy and McGoldrick has always been better - it was that that got us to 2nd in the league whereas Murphy and Sears dropped us down to 6th even when both playing well. Fitting Sears in the side (and having him as one of the leading assist makers in the Championship) was hardly a bad thing. It's not Mick's fault he can't finish simple chances.
"A constant theme of McCarthy's career is that no matter how much money he chucks at it, the style of play doesn't improve."
Again - total rubbish. Wolves played some cracking stuff in this league. THe fact that they couldn't do that at end of his tenure when in the Premiership is the same reason we aren't here - they had a lower budget.
Mick is a naturally conservative manager, but when he has good players he gets them playing - Fraser, McGoldrick and Lawrence are all good examples of this. Top quality players don't have shackles put on them, but if you aren't top quality then you have to work hard for the team, like at all clubs.
Mick will go, but this one-eyed look at him as though he is a terrible manager is way OTT. |  |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 15:07 - Feb 3 with 1449 views | itfcjoe |
| How quickly can opinions change on 15:00 - Feb 3 by hadleighboyblue |
The whole club is in a serious mess .
Invisible owner who seems to have no idea of what to do
Lapdog Milne who is in denial of any problems , promises signings that never happen
Demoralised manager and that takes some doing of an old fighter like MM
Clueless coaching , tactically naïve
Demoralised Captain
Underperforming team
and Disappearing fans
Has it ever been this bad at ITFC
This club is only going one way .
Like some others I'm realising that this situation is not down to MM alone and I'm not sure a new manager will manage to turn this around as things stand . |
It's really bad at the moment, and agree with all you've said.
Easiest of those to change is the manager and it may have an impact. Things were similarly bad under Jewell and Mick turned it round relatively quickly - hopefully the next guy can too! | |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 17:16 - Feb 3 with 1402 views | jpring89 |
| How quickly can opinions change on 10:50 - Feb 3 by caught-in-limbo |
This is classic TWTD.
The team has served up a pretty shocking show from September though to now. Yes, Mick isn't the one on the pitch, but the buck stops with him with regards to who plays and how they play week in week out. This is not a team he has just inherited.
The transfer window is over, we didn't sign anyone, Mick goes all tail-between-the-legs and some people go all gooey, feel sorry for him and sharpen the knives for ME.
I'm not saying ME isn't to blame to some extent but if I was the owner of this club I wouldn't trust Mick's judgement on any more expensive signings based on the product that gets served up on a weekly basis and the likelihood that he'll be off at the end of the season.
I'd save up my money for the next manager that comes in. |
So the next manager will have a whole £2.50 to spend on new players. Goody buzzing for next season. | |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 17:26 - Feb 3 with 1402 views | ClausThomsen |
| How quickly can opinions change on 15:04 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
I love how you don't give McCarthy one iota of credit - he has clearly done much more good than bad for ITFC, and especially Marcus Evans.
You say Tommy Oar was 'homesick' as though he wasn't - he then signed for Brisbane Roar back in his home state of Queensland. I'd have liked to see Oar get more chances, and sure there is something in the fact he wasn't playing that exacerbated his homesickness - but to blame the manager when the player subsequently goes home afterwards is a bit silly.
Sears may have been scoring regularly up front - but the partnership of Murphy and McGoldrick has always been better - it was that that got us to 2nd in the league whereas Murphy and Sears dropped us down to 6th even when both playing well. Fitting Sears in the side (and having him as one of the leading assist makers in the Championship) was hardly a bad thing. It's not Mick's fault he can't finish simple chances.
"A constant theme of McCarthy's career is that no matter how much money he chucks at it, the style of play doesn't improve."
Again - total rubbish. Wolves played some cracking stuff in this league. THe fact that they couldn't do that at end of his tenure when in the Premiership is the same reason we aren't here - they had a lower budget.
Mick is a naturally conservative manager, but when he has good players he gets them playing - Fraser, McGoldrick and Lawrence are all good examples of this. Top quality players don't have shackles put on them, but if you aren't top quality then you have to work hard for the team, like at all clubs.
Mick will go, but this one-eyed look at him as though he is a terrible manager is way OTT. |
McCarthy did well straight after Jewell, did ok in his first full season and then had that patch when everyone loved him, myself included. Since the playoffs though he's made baffling decisions and, in my opinion, taken his foot off the gas. I'm sure, had McGoldrick not been injured so much, we would have made the playoffs a season earlier (and probably gone up automatically the next year). McCarthy's been unlucky with injuries during his whole spell.
The point about Oar is that he was a relatively high profile signing, made entirely by Mick, brought in to compete specifically for the spot which Sears was shoehorned into. McGoldrick and Murphy was our best front pair, but McGoldrick was injured early doors and Sears was stuck with on the wing as Mick made us more of a 451 team. He called it a 433 but when 2 of the front 3 are helping the fullbacks all game... Often he'd just chuck all the strikers on with no real plan. It never worked.
What a contrast to our playoff season, when he played McGoldrick, Murphy and Sammon (!) as a proper front 3 at Wigan, igniting our best form under his stewardship.
Sears isn't getting simple chances, he's almost always coming at the goal from an angle, it's like he's lost all confidence through the centre, where he was superb when he arrived.
McCarthy had a good team at Wolves when they went up, but the next season and £35 million later they were worse than before. Only Stephen Fletcher could have been classed as a successful signing. Saying Mick had budgetary constraints at Wolves is BS - £35 million was a lot of money before these new ludicrous TV contracts.
Worryingly, the grafters he bought in were then relegated twice in 2 seasons.
Mick has a shelf life like all except the very best managers. He's like a banana, when he arrived he was green and keen, bright yellow and bulbous for a while, last season the brown spots started appearing and now he's a dried up little brown thing with mould ont top.
The point being, the days of the yellow banana aren't coming back. The owner isn't going anywhere for the time being. The only change which can happen at the club should've happened after the Lincoln match. | | | |
| How quickly can opinions change on 18:03 - Feb 3 with 1379 views | caught-in-limbo |
| How quickly can opinions change on 17:16 - Feb 3 by jpring89 |
So the next manager will have a whole £2.50 to spend on new players. Goody buzzing for next season. |
I prefer to comment on how much he has to spend... when it happens. |  |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 19:05 - Feb 3 with 1351 views | itfcjoe |
| How quickly can opinions change on 17:26 - Feb 3 by ClausThomsen |
McCarthy did well straight after Jewell, did ok in his first full season and then had that patch when everyone loved him, myself included. Since the playoffs though he's made baffling decisions and, in my opinion, taken his foot off the gas. I'm sure, had McGoldrick not been injured so much, we would have made the playoffs a season earlier (and probably gone up automatically the next year). McCarthy's been unlucky with injuries during his whole spell.
The point about Oar is that he was a relatively high profile signing, made entirely by Mick, brought in to compete specifically for the spot which Sears was shoehorned into. McGoldrick and Murphy was our best front pair, but McGoldrick was injured early doors and Sears was stuck with on the wing as Mick made us more of a 451 team. He called it a 433 but when 2 of the front 3 are helping the fullbacks all game... Often he'd just chuck all the strikers on with no real plan. It never worked.
What a contrast to our playoff season, when he played McGoldrick, Murphy and Sammon (!) as a proper front 3 at Wigan, igniting our best form under his stewardship.
Sears isn't getting simple chances, he's almost always coming at the goal from an angle, it's like he's lost all confidence through the centre, where he was superb when he arrived.
McCarthy had a good team at Wolves when they went up, but the next season and £35 million later they were worse than before. Only Stephen Fletcher could have been classed as a successful signing. Saying Mick had budgetary constraints at Wolves is BS - £35 million was a lot of money before these new ludicrous TV contracts.
Worryingly, the grafters he bought in were then relegated twice in 2 seasons.
Mick has a shelf life like all except the very best managers. He's like a banana, when he arrived he was green and keen, bright yellow and bulbous for a while, last season the brown spots started appearing and now he's a dried up little brown thing with mould ont top.
The point being, the days of the yellow banana aren't coming back. The owner isn't going anywhere for the time being. The only change which can happen at the club should've happened after the Lincoln match. |
I think he's made a rod for his own back by having the success on a limited budget whic Evans thinks is now sustainable rather than a one off. As bad as the second half of last season was to watch - had we had McG and Fraser fit there's a very good chance we'd have made the top 6.
SO regardless of styles, Mick has always got results - until this season when he struggled. Is this a one off or a sign of things to come? I guess we aren't going to get the chance to find out. The whole club needed a lift in January and didn't get one on or off the pitch - Evans should have splashed a bit of cash to lift things here. Relegation could become a real possibility and we didn't do anything to improve the starting XI which is poor.
Oar was a high profile signing, and I had high hopes. It didn't work out and Mick could've done more certainly - but would that have just delayed the inevitable. At least the contract was torn up rather than being an expensive millstone.
Sears has had plenty of simple chances - had his finishing been half decent he'd have ended last season with 10 goals and 10 assists which is a great return - but he misses sitters. For all the talk of him being ruined by playing out wide - he has played there plenty in hais career and is still a forward player in the main - there is no excuse for him to be outscored by Luke CHambers. 2014/15 was the exception not the norm for his career - good little player but not a good finisher.
Wolves budget was lower end in the Prem so they weren't going to tear it up with Mick's more conservative style - they are still budget constraints in reality and his sacking there (unlike here?) was too early and with Wolves on the edge of the relegation zone in hindsight turned out to be a huge mistake - considering the next appointments Connor, Stalebaaken and Saunders. The Wolves side relegated from the Championship was littered with quality players and should have been fighting it out for the title.
Lincoln wasn't the time to get rid of Mick, the problem with getting rid of Mick is that we've never had a really bad run to do so. We always pull a win out of somewhere, or a decent point. These next few games could provide that run. I hope they don't because I think it will be the best time to sort a new manager once we are safe to get the best chance of making a good appointment. | |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 19:52 - Feb 3 with 1336 views | Deano69 |
| How quickly can opinions change on 09:15 - Feb 3 by maccyd9 |
I agree that Mick has his faults but when you look at that squad, it's woeful. |
It's is the proverbial 'polishing of turds'. |  |
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| How quickly can opinions change on 09:46 - Feb 4 with 1257 views | ClausThomsen |
| How quickly can opinions change on 19:05 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
I think he's made a rod for his own back by having the success on a limited budget whic Evans thinks is now sustainable rather than a one off. As bad as the second half of last season was to watch - had we had McG and Fraser fit there's a very good chance we'd have made the top 6.
SO regardless of styles, Mick has always got results - until this season when he struggled. Is this a one off or a sign of things to come? I guess we aren't going to get the chance to find out. The whole club needed a lift in January and didn't get one on or off the pitch - Evans should have splashed a bit of cash to lift things here. Relegation could become a real possibility and we didn't do anything to improve the starting XI which is poor.
Oar was a high profile signing, and I had high hopes. It didn't work out and Mick could've done more certainly - but would that have just delayed the inevitable. At least the contract was torn up rather than being an expensive millstone.
Sears has had plenty of simple chances - had his finishing been half decent he'd have ended last season with 10 goals and 10 assists which is a great return - but he misses sitters. For all the talk of him being ruined by playing out wide - he has played there plenty in hais career and is still a forward player in the main - there is no excuse for him to be outscored by Luke CHambers. 2014/15 was the exception not the norm for his career - good little player but not a good finisher.
Wolves budget was lower end in the Prem so they weren't going to tear it up with Mick's more conservative style - they are still budget constraints in reality and his sacking there (unlike here?) was too early and with Wolves on the edge of the relegation zone in hindsight turned out to be a huge mistake - considering the next appointments Connor, Stalebaaken and Saunders. The Wolves side relegated from the Championship was littered with quality players and should have been fighting it out for the title.
Lincoln wasn't the time to get rid of Mick, the problem with getting rid of Mick is that we've never had a really bad run to do so. We always pull a win out of somewhere, or a decent point. These next few games could provide that run. I hope they don't because I think it will be the best time to sort a new manager once we are safe to get the best chance of making a good appointment. |
Managers come and go, they rise and fall.
McCarthy couldn't improve Wolves with £35 million at a time where £1.5 million bought him the Championships top scorer. He did get them up though. He rose and he fell.
Like I've reiterated time and again, if McCarthy's system of football is so dependent on a Murphy-type player, going into the season with just one of these players (who was 33) is completely unacceptable. McCarthy's had the whole window to sort someone out, and he's just kept blurting "me want Hugill". A player at a team with play off aspirations who we were told wasn't for sale early doors. I don't blame ME for not wanting to pay big money for average Championship players. ME's had his fingers burnt every time he's opened the chequebook. You can't blame Preston for not wanting to sell their striker as they aim for the playoffs.
Right, Hugill's not for sale - who shall we go for now?
ME WANT WARD
But he's £5 million quid!
ME WANT HUGILL
But he's not for sale!
ME WANT WARD
etc
But where else can McCarthy scout? His recruitment of foreign players has been poor throughout his career, as has his developing of young players.
Anyway, I hope we win today and Kieffer Moore scores and we can all stop sh*tting ourselves that this season ends in disaster. Dominic Samuel also looks a decent punt, although disappointing that it's such a late punt and that it's a loan with no chance of nicking him if he rips up trees.
If we're 3-0 down at halftime again then woe betide etc | | | |
| How quickly can opinions change on 09:59 - Feb 4 with 1246 views | No9 |
Just a question which I beleive is serious for the English football supporter.
The Blair plan was to hand back football to the fans broadly based on the German model where 51% of any club should be owned by the supporters.
This plan acording to Tom Bowers book was scuppered by Sheepshanks
But do we as supporters of the beautiful game beleive that would have worked, in general in England &, in particular for ITFC?
I am not in favour of the presnt way in which football is being run and like many others am becoming disillusioned with Owners in general & am against the way in which the FA & PL allow anyone to 'own a club' the due diligence seemingly ignored | | | |
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