| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:20 - Nov 9 with 4858 views | Guthrum |
The problem I have with these bald figures is that they're simply based on a notional valuation of large businesses. That kind of wealth is not possible to realise in any meaningful sense.
If Bezos et al dumped their entire shareholdings on the market, the prices would instantly crash.
It's also more money than you can conceivably spend on yourself, which is why the likes of Gates have huge charitable foundations to give the stuff away on an industrial scale. |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:27 - Nov 9 with 4845 views | giant_stow |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:20 - Nov 9 by Guthrum |
The problem I have with these bald figures is that they're simply based on a notional valuation of large businesses. That kind of wealth is not possible to realise in any meaningful sense.
If Bezos et al dumped their entire shareholdings on the market, the prices would instantly crash.
It's also more money than you can conceivably spend on yourself, which is why the likes of Gates have huge charitable foundations to give the stuff away on an industrial scale. |
They may be bald figures, but very stark and illustrative of a big problem in society.
I'd say your points on the wealth being tied up in company valuations and even when realised, being given away are red herrings mho. The problem is control and distribution of finite resources. When 3 people control as much wealth as 160m, it looks more than a little feudal and I remember learning about those times aghast in primary school, wondering how such a world could have ever existed. |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:33 - Nov 9 with 4822 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:27 - Nov 9 by giant_stow |
They may be bald figures, but very stark and illustrative of a big problem in society.
I'd say your points on the wealth being tied up in company valuations and even when realised, being given away are red herrings mho. The problem is control and distribution of finite resources. When 3 people control as much wealth as 160m, it looks more than a little feudal and I remember learning about those times aghast in primary school, wondering how such a world could have ever existed. |
You may have seen this already but you may find the historic parallels interesting if not.....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/08/uk-fairer-share-wealth-anc |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:36 - Nov 9 with 4820 views | giant_stow |
Nope hasn't seen that - saved for reading on the tube in a sec - ta. | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:38 - Nov 9 with 4816 views | blue_oyster |
Maximum Guardian. An article quoting numbers of which it doesn't understand, so stuffs in equality and implied racism to flesh it out. |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:44 - Nov 9 with 4808 views | chicoazul |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:27 - Nov 9 by giant_stow |
They may be bald figures, but very stark and illustrative of a big problem in society.
I'd say your points on the wealth being tied up in company valuations and even when realised, being given away are red herrings mho. The problem is control and distribution of finite resources. When 3 people control as much wealth as 160m, it looks more than a little feudal and I remember learning about those times aghast in primary school, wondering how such a world could have ever existed. |
Google and Facebook are starting to build homes for their employees now. Feudalism is alive and well my brother. |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 with 4802 views | Guthrum |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:27 - Nov 9 by giant_stow |
They may be bald figures, but very stark and illustrative of a big problem in society.
I'd say your points on the wealth being tied up in company valuations and even when realised, being given away are red herrings mho. The problem is control and distribution of finite resources. When 3 people control as much wealth as 160m, it looks more than a little feudal and I remember learning about those times aghast in primary school, wondering how such a world could have ever existed. |
The world has never been any different, since the beginning of human society. Successful leaders take ownership of large chunks of resources - be it land, money, political power, or whatever - and everybody else works for them.
The problem comes with the breakdown of the social contract, which is that in exchange for giving service to these leaders, they have a duty to provide for and protect their followers. This was a strong principle, enshrined in law, during the Middle Ages.
Interesting article from the other day: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/08/uk-fairer-share-wealth-anc | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 with 4800 views | StokieBlue |
Surely the pinnacle of the American dream given none of them inherited the money? Two of them have also pledged to give away 99.9% of their fortune to the Bill and Melinda Gates charity (not sure on Bezos).
Their wealth is also a long way behind the craziness of the 1800's - Rockefeller and Carnegie both had more than x4 as much as Gates in inflation adjusted fortunes (both over 450bn USD).
SB |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 with 4793 views | Guthrum |
Aha, you got there first with posting that article! | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:58 - Nov 9 with 4770 views | homer_123 |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
Surely the pinnacle of the American dream given none of them inherited the money? Two of them have also pledged to give away 99.9% of their fortune to the Bill and Melinda Gates charity (not sure on Bezos).
Their wealth is also a long way behind the craziness of the 1800's - Rockefeller and Carnegie both had more than x4 as much as Gates in inflation adjusted fortunes (both over 450bn USD).
SB |
There was a very interesting programme about the Bill and Melinda Foundation and what it's trying to do in terms eradicating illnesses and diseases such as Polio et al.
What was fascinating was the foundation isn't blind to the issues or rather implications of eradicating illness and disease and also increasing life longevity and the consequences on both individuals and society as a whole.
Was impressed with their approach and the work they are doing. |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 10:00 - Nov 9 with 4759 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 by Guthrum |
Aha, you got there first with posting that article! |
Glad you liked it.....I may pinch some if it as I flesh out my manifesto ! | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 10:42 - Nov 9 with 4719 views | giant_stow |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:38 - Nov 9 by blue_oyster |
Maximum Guardian. An article quoting numbers of which it doesn't understand, so stuffs in equality and implied racism to flesh it out. |
Its reporting some think tank's report innit? | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 10:44 - Nov 9 with 4721 views | giant_stow |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 by Guthrum |
The world has never been any different, since the beginning of human society. Successful leaders take ownership of large chunks of resources - be it land, money, political power, or whatever - and everybody else works for them.
The problem comes with the breakdown of the social contract, which is that in exchange for giving service to these leaders, they have a duty to provide for and protect their followers. This was a strong principle, enshrined in law, during the Middle Ages.
Interesting article from the other day: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/08/uk-fairer-share-wealth-anc |
It certainly was an interesting article, as was stokie's point about Rockafella | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 13:01 - Nov 9 with 4629 views | Guthrum |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 10:44 - Nov 9 by giant_stow |
It certainly was an interesting article, as was stokie's point about Rockafella |
There was a good series of short programmes on Radio 4 last year about the "Robber Barons" of American industrial history. Don't know if you can still listen to them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080kw3g | |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 18:05 - Nov 9 with 4531 views | Binner |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 09:48 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
Surely the pinnacle of the American dream given none of them inherited the money? Two of them have also pledged to give away 99.9% of their fortune to the Bill and Melinda Gates charity (not sure on Bezos).
Their wealth is also a long way behind the craziness of the 1800's - Rockefeller and Carnegie both had more than x4 as much as Gates in inflation adjusted fortunes (both over 450bn USD).
SB |
Fair point.
But I'd add... I don't know about Rockefeller's benevolence but it is worth mentioning, for balance, that Carnegie did a lot of 'good works' with his fortune... |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream (n/t) on 18:29 - Nov 9 with 4514 views | gerard1947 |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 18:05 - Nov 9 by Binner |
Fair point.
But I'd add... I don't know about Rockefeller's benevolence but it is worth mentioning, for balance, that Carnegie did a lot of 'good works' with his fortune... |
I'm sure I read somewhere that his charitable trusts continue to pay out huge sums to this day. [Post edited 9 Nov 2017 18:32]
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 18:40 - Nov 9 with 4501 views | StokieBlue |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 18:05 - Nov 9 by Binner |
Fair point.
But I'd add... I don't know about Rockefeller's benevolence but it is worth mentioning, for balance, that Carnegie did a lot of 'good works' with his fortune... |
They both did but not until they were very old and only because they wanted to upstage each other so they got into a war on who could be the most benovolent.
Worked out well in the end, they even kind of became friends after being mortal enemies.
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 18:54 - Nov 9 with 4490 views | baxterbasics |
Capitalism has indeed worked like a dream, lifting a billion of the worlds poorest out of extreme poverty over the last half century or so.
I believe at least two of those men have devoted a big wedge of their fortunes to saving and improving lives. Probably achieved a lot more than any government would have with the same amount.
We really should be celebrating wealth creators. |  |
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| Capitalism working like a dream on 19:16 - Nov 9 with 4472 views | No9 |
| Capitalism working like a dream on 18:54 - Nov 9 by baxterbasics |
Capitalism has indeed worked like a dream, lifting a billion of the worlds poorest out of extreme poverty over the last half century or so.
I believe at least two of those men have devoted a big wedge of their fortunes to saving and improving lives. Probably achieved a lot more than any government would have with the same amount.
We really should be celebrating wealth creators. |
Your knowledge of history and world events relative to what 'capitalism' has done in some countries is appalling. |  | | |
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