| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? 12:18 - Jan 10 with 10073 views | Illinoisblue |
Seems to be quite the injury saga with him |  |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 06:52 - Jan 11 with 2773 views | Guru_of_Ipswich |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 06:27 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
I'm not dismissing them outright. But assuming that there's a problem with the the training or medical staff when it's basically a crisis in one position seems a bit of a leap. |
So you think it’s perfectly reasonable that bish basically had a 2 and a half year groin strain? Adeyemi, tweaked a hammy then suddenly has 3 months out? Hyam injures knee, nears comeback, breaks down, nears come back, breaks down. Didzy had 2 years of continued injuries. Joniesta comes here perfectly fit every time, gets injured and goes missing. And list goes on.
I just think that it’s needs looking at, perhaps mick has put his faith in the wrong guys? Are the club doing something different in actually getting the diagnosis for the injury or pushing too hard in recovery. Questions need asking. |  | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:00 - Jan 11 with 2691 views | Benters2 |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 06:52 - Jan 11 by Guru_of_Ipswich |
So you think it’s perfectly reasonable that bish basically had a 2 and a half year groin strain? Adeyemi, tweaked a hammy then suddenly has 3 months out? Hyam injures knee, nears comeback, breaks down, nears come back, breaks down. Didzy had 2 years of continued injuries. Joniesta comes here perfectly fit every time, gets injured and goes missing. And list goes on.
I just think that it’s needs looking at, perhaps mick has put his faith in the wrong guys? Are the club doing something different in actually getting the diagnosis for the injury or pushing too hard in recovery. Questions need asking. |
Or its just bad luck. | | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:02 - Jan 11 with 2764 views | ElderGrizzly |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 12:54 - Jan 10 by FinidiCentenary |
It really does feel like we take players that were reasonably healthy everywhere else (Adeyemi, Huws, Webster, the list goes on) that pick up constant injuries here.
Could be the training methods, but I wonder if it may even be as simple as the style of play. We have the lowest pass completion and most long balls, so I wonder if it's part of doing more running as opposed to work with the ball, but also given how poor we are in possession and how many midfielders we have injured, I wonder if there's also an element of our players changing direction more and putting the body under greater strain as attack goes to defence and back again. |
We actually don’t have the most long balls (just!). Thread about it last week.
That’s Bristol City, surprisingly. With Reading level with us
[Post edited 11 Jan 2018 7:03]
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:03 - Jan 11 with 2763 views | Darth_Koont |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 06:52 - Jan 11 by Guru_of_Ipswich |
So you think it’s perfectly reasonable that bish basically had a 2 and a half year groin strain? Adeyemi, tweaked a hammy then suddenly has 3 months out? Hyam injures knee, nears comeback, breaks down, nears come back, breaks down. Didzy had 2 years of continued injuries. Joniesta comes here perfectly fit every time, gets injured and goes missing. And list goes on.
I just think that it’s needs looking at, perhaps mick has put his faith in the wrong guys? Are the club doing something different in actually getting the diagnosis for the injury or pushing too hard in recovery. Questions need asking. |
Questions can be asked and I'd be amazed if they haven't reviewed procedures. But I don't see how you can make the leap to things being fundamentally wrong in any area.
Are you dismissing that it could be down to bad luck? How else do you explain a crisis in one position? |  |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:04 - Jan 11 with 2685 views | Benters2 |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:02 - Jan 11 by ElderGrizzly |
We actually don’t have the most long balls (just!). Thread about it last week.
That’s Bristol City, surprisingly. With Reading level with us
[Post edited 11 Jan 2018 7:03]
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Blimey i amazed its that many to be honest! | | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:16 - Jan 11 with 2723 views | textbackup |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:03 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
Questions can be asked and I'd be amazed if they haven't reviewed procedures. But I don't see how you can make the leap to things being fundamentally wrong in any area.
Are you dismissing that it could be down to bad luck? How else do you explain a crisis in one position? |
My opinion on this, the players from said position are (what I’d call) the better footballers, Huws bishop Downes Nydam etc, players like this are built different to the likes of chambers who could run through brick walls all day long.
I personally feel they are trainined to breaking point, each player needs specific attention. Ties in with the FA team story I mentioned on here a while back |  |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:26 - Jan 11 with 2710 views | Guru_of_Ipswich |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:03 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
Questions can be asked and I'd be amazed if they haven't reviewed procedures. But I don't see how you can make the leap to things being fundamentally wrong in any area.
Are you dismissing that it could be down to bad luck? How else do you explain a crisis in one position? |
No ñot dismissing out of hand, you can appreciate a number of injuries picked up in games which can happen, but how can you just put it down to bad luck when the players are breaking down before they even stepping out on the pitch in anger. Which happens on a regular basis.
Either they are being pushed too hard in the weights room or they aren’t being diagnosed correctly and the wrong treatment being given. | | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:28 - Jan 11 with 2706 views | Darth_Koont |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:16 - Jan 11 by textbackup |
My opinion on this, the players from said position are (what I’d call) the better footballers, Huws bishop Downes Nydam etc, players like this are built different to the likes of chambers who could run through brick walls all day long.
I personally feel they are trainined to breaking point, each player needs specific attention. Ties in with the FA team story I mentioned on here a while back |
So you think it's the training, someone else thinks it's the injury diagnosis and/or rehab, someone else thinks it's the way we play.
Do you see the problem? There's no specific evidence for any of these.
But if you suggest that it could be bad luck and no-one is to blame people get uppity. Now I have a theory about that ... | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:37 - Jan 11 with 2617 views | Benters2 |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:28 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
So you think it's the training, someone else thinks it's the injury diagnosis and/or rehab, someone else thinks it's the way we play.
Do you see the problem? There's no specific evidence for any of these.
But if you suggest that it could be bad luck and no-one is to blame people get uppity. Now I have a theory about that ... |
It could be all of those things plus bad luck. | | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:03 - Jan 11 with 2619 views | Harry_Palmer |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 21:37 - Jan 10 by Binner |
When will people realise that MM will not criticise players or performances publicly if he thinks there is more benefit in keeping such criticisms within the dressing room. He knows when the team or individuals perform badly but he will use soundbites or newspaper comments to work on his players' confidence and self-belief.
That is why he took pains last season to publicly support Douglas, knowing that Douglas would likely be needed to play. It is also why, when questioned about Bart, he has often spoken in glowing terms about Gerken. His priority is to keep the players' confidence up as much as possible |
So giving them a boll***ing behind closed doors whilst lying to the public is the best way to maintain the players confidence?
Got it. |  | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:45 - Jan 11 with 2574 views | Radlett_blue |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:02 - Jan 11 by ElderGrizzly |
We actually don’t have the most long balls (just!). Thread about it last week.
That’s Bristol City, surprisingly. With Reading level with us
[Post edited 11 Jan 2018 7:03]
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Stats, eh? We probably don't have the most because we only have the flipping ball for about 25% of the game. |  |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:54 - Jan 11 with 2547 views | BackToRussia |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:45 - Jan 11 by Radlett_blue |
Stats, eh? We probably don't have the most because we only have the flipping ball for about 25% of the game. |
A long ball, if it's well directed and accurate is a very different thing to an aimless punt. Would be interesting to see out of those 80 or so passes the accuracy %. |  |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:59 - Jan 11 with 2541 views | Darth_Koont |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 07:37 - Jan 11 by Benters2 |
It could be all of those things plus bad luck. |
Even more unlikely though — and that wouldn't be bad luck if so much was wrong.
But the key is "could" not "is" which is where some people are taking this. If we don't know anything specific then we're just guessing from a pretty weak position. | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:06 - Jan 11 with 2507 views | BackToRussia |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:59 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
Even more unlikely though — and that wouldn't be bad luck if so much was wrong.
But the key is "could" not "is" which is where some people are taking this. If we don't know anything specific then we're just guessing from a pretty weak position. |
You already have said that the club should have looked into these things anyway. That's all anyone is saying. | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:11 - Jan 11 with 2497 views | longtimefan |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:03 - Jan 11 by Harry_Palmer |
So giving them a boll***ing behind closed doors whilst lying to the public is the best way to maintain the players confidence?
Got it. |
That’s exactly how Sir Alex operated and didn’t seem to him too much harm. He would praise them on TV and throw boots at them in the dressing room. | | | |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:23 - Jan 11 with 2490 views | BackToRussia |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:11 - Jan 11 by longtimefan |
That’s exactly how Sir Alex operated and didn’t seem to him too much harm. He would praise them on TV and throw boots at them in the dressing room. |
Aye, that's essentially how all managers operate surely. Unfair to criticise MM for showing basic loyalty to this players! | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:43 - Jan 11 with 2485 views | Darth_Koont |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:06 - Jan 11 by BackToRussia |
You already have said that the club should have looked into these things anyway. That's all anyone is saying. |
No. It's a bit stronger than that from a number of people.
And the theories don't address why it's an injury crisis in one position rather than overall numbers throughout the squad.
But here's my theory: we had bad luck in the CM position with Dozzell straight off the bat coupled with the calculated risk of signing Huws already injured. Because of these gaps at the start we had to use more of Nydam and Downes than is ideal plus keep them at the intensity of the senior squad too. I think Mick in his last press conference mentioned that Downes pretty much ran out of gas a few weeks ago because of it. Adeyemi picked up an injury and there seem to be complications from that, but that's just to be expected in a squad and bad timing. Then when players get fit and get back, Huws and Bishop pick up injuries in games after both had been pretty gently worked up to full fitness. Again bad luck but perhaps exacerbated by the fact that we didn't have midfielders who were in the team and playing which would have meant that Huws and Bishop could have had a month or two of full training before they got involved. Are we increasing the risk with Hyam too as he steps into the gap? I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if the overall risk of injury goes up when you start filling gaps rather than being able to pick players more on form.
But these aren't players showing a pattern of breaking down in training or not recovering from a specific injury/responding to rehab. There are also players like Connolly and Skuse who are regularly getting hurt in games but keep coming back. If there was an underlying problem with training and rehab they wouldn't. Or are we just talking about more serious injuries, which begs the question of how do we stop these happening in games?
Re: the asking of questions, perhaps Phil can do an interview of Byard or whoever and ask how they're approaching this? It'll either put a few minds at rest or actively give them something to rail against. Anything but the current rush to attach groundless blame which is pretty pathetic. | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:50 - Jan 11 with 2470 views | Radlett_blue |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:43 - Jan 11 by Darth_Koont |
No. It's a bit stronger than that from a number of people.
And the theories don't address why it's an injury crisis in one position rather than overall numbers throughout the squad.
But here's my theory: we had bad luck in the CM position with Dozzell straight off the bat coupled with the calculated risk of signing Huws already injured. Because of these gaps at the start we had to use more of Nydam and Downes than is ideal plus keep them at the intensity of the senior squad too. I think Mick in his last press conference mentioned that Downes pretty much ran out of gas a few weeks ago because of it. Adeyemi picked up an injury and there seem to be complications from that, but that's just to be expected in a squad and bad timing. Then when players get fit and get back, Huws and Bishop pick up injuries in games after both had been pretty gently worked up to full fitness. Again bad luck but perhaps exacerbated by the fact that we didn't have midfielders who were in the team and playing which would have meant that Huws and Bishop could have had a month or two of full training before they got involved. Are we increasing the risk with Hyam too as he steps into the gap? I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if the overall risk of injury goes up when you start filling gaps rather than being able to pick players more on form.
But these aren't players showing a pattern of breaking down in training or not recovering from a specific injury/responding to rehab. There are also players like Connolly and Skuse who are regularly getting hurt in games but keep coming back. If there was an underlying problem with training and rehab they wouldn't. Or are we just talking about more serious injuries, which begs the question of how do we stop these happening in games?
Re: the asking of questions, perhaps Phil can do an interview of Byard or whoever and ask how they're approaching this? It'll either put a few minds at rest or actively give them something to rail against. Anything but the current rush to attach groundless blame which is pretty pathetic. |
I agree that Downes & Nydam may be suffering from having played too much, largely out of necessity. And yes, an injury crisis feeds on itself as you then are tempted to rush players back before they're 100%.
Yes, we're speculating, but that's what football fans do. As a matter of interest, West Ham used to suffer from a rash of training injuries & they decided the pitches at the training ground weren't up to scratch. As with our rehab programmes, I have zero knowledge as to whether this might be an issue. | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 11:03 - Jan 11 with 2456 views | Darth_Koont |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 10:50 - Jan 11 by Radlett_blue |
I agree that Downes & Nydam may be suffering from having played too much, largely out of necessity. And yes, an injury crisis feeds on itself as you then are tempted to rush players back before they're 100%.
Yes, we're speculating, but that's what football fans do. As a matter of interest, West Ham used to suffer from a rash of training injuries & they decided the pitches at the training ground weren't up to scratch. As with our rehab programmes, I have zero knowledge as to whether this might be an issue. |
Sure. Everything should be continually assessed and tweaked/changed over time. So I'd be surprised and disappointed if we were just repeating the same mistakes or below par practices.
Certainly if there is a pattern in the type of injury or when it's sustained then that's hugely useful for making improvements. Seems to be a bit of everything though and a large enough proportion of the injuries have been in games which can't really be guarded against.
Talking of which, I was worried about Bishop, with his groin injury, going into those long stretching tackles of his and wondered whether Mick should get him to stay on his feet. The actual challenge that did for him was a jarring collision when he was on both feet and just got stopped too quickly. | |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 11:38 - Jan 11 with 2400 views | Binner |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 09:03 - Jan 11 by Harry_Palmer |
So giving them a boll***ing behind closed doors whilst lying to the public is the best way to maintain the players confidence?
Got it. |
It is bad practice for any boss in any industry to publicly berate his/her staff or subordinates. In the case of football manager we're not usually talking about boll**kings (unless the player has committed some disciplinary infraction like being out on the lash immediately before a game.) Rather constructive evaluation of the players' tactical awareness, positioning etc.
I would always expect MM to speak well of his players in public. How do you suppose it would affect Gerken's performance if MM were to state publicly that his ability is way behind that of Bart then Bart gets injured and Gerks has to play?
I suppose it is lying but many managers do it, in my view rightly. Some call it manager-speak. |  |
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| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 12:13 - Jan 11 with 2375 views | Harry_Palmer |
| What exactly is wrong with Adeyemi? on 11:38 - Jan 11 by Binner |
It is bad practice for any boss in any industry to publicly berate his/her staff or subordinates. In the case of football manager we're not usually talking about boll**kings (unless the player has committed some disciplinary infraction like being out on the lash immediately before a game.) Rather constructive evaluation of the players' tactical awareness, positioning etc.
I would always expect MM to speak well of his players in public. How do you suppose it would affect Gerken's performance if MM were to state publicly that his ability is way behind that of Bart then Bart gets injured and Gerks has to play?
I suppose it is lying but many managers do it, in my view rightly. Some call it manager-speak. |
I understand what you are saying. Obviously nobody would expect MM to publicly compare the abilities of individual players but in the case of the Blades match we could all see it was not a good performance so for Mick to try and pretend it was is just disingenuous.
I know most Managers have this policy of never being critical of the players in public but I think the majority of fans are a little tired of this and would prefer a bit more honesty. If we are good then say we are good but if we are not quite up to scratch, just be honest about it. | | | |
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