| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? 05:25 - Jan 24 with 7333 views | wkj |
I am noticing a rise of products flouting their 'health halo' style rollocks lately on a mass of products claiming to be Vegan, a large reason for this is because they're using Palm Oil, in fact almost everything in supermarkets now uses Palm and/or Rapeseed oil in place of butter - cost cutting and the sort.
What is the issue with Palm oil? Well, in case you didn't know, its grown in tropical climates in large amounts leading to the destruction natural habitats for animals, a few endangered species too.
https://www.worldwildlife.org/pages/palm-oil-the-hidden-truth-lurking-in-your-ho
https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/illegal-palm-oil-plantations-threaten-prot
Mass arable farming will have an impact on any eco-system, whether you grow corn, potatoes, beets etc. So one could argue is anything grown in bulk considered vegan - the difference with palm oil though is that it is one of the largest sourced arable products in the world and so out-of-sight out-of-mind for people, we fail to realise how much damage it does to wildlife. [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 5:26]
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 09:43 - Jan 25 with 1820 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 09:02 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Veganism hasn't really changed, what's changed is more people are becoming vegan for environmental reasons. For me as a vegan it's not primarily about the environment but that's not to say I don't care about the environment either. The question shouldn't really be are vegans okay with palm oil, it should be are humans okay with palm oil. |
I still find it a strange complex for a person to champion a lifestyle of not eating meat and dairy and so on based around not causing or being part animal suffering but can use a product that does in fact cause animal suffering, albeit not directly on a farm. As well as the effects on the environment.
I am not saying you do this but I just feel when others ram it down your throat it is a bit tedious when they preach giving up meat and dairy etc but can use something that really is just as sh!tty with what it cause and how detrimental it is with no real come back. Just be Vegan and get on with it. |  | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 11:14 - Jan 25 with 1790 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 09:17 - Jan 25 by wkj |
As previously stated, my main question is based around the 'health-halo' marketing, and seeing the rise of companies putting vegan friendly on these halos is very much a change in veganism and the attitudes toward it, as it has become a marketing vessel.
You're not wrong to raise the point of "Are humans ok with palm oil" but in the context of my OP
Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans stands, when in relation to the marketing of products toward vegans. [Post edited 25 Jan 2019 9:18]
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How companies choose to market stuff has nothing to do with vegans. And if something contains palm oil it doesn't mean it isn't vegan so can be marketed as such. I'm not entirely sure I'm following you really. |  |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 11:16 - Jan 25 with 1788 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 09:43 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
I still find it a strange complex for a person to champion a lifestyle of not eating meat and dairy and so on based around not causing or being part animal suffering but can use a product that does in fact cause animal suffering, albeit not directly on a farm. As well as the effects on the environment.
I am not saying you do this but I just feel when others ram it down your throat it is a bit tedious when they preach giving up meat and dairy etc but can use something that really is just as sh!tty with what it cause and how detrimental it is with no real come back. Just be Vegan and get on with it. |
Who is preaching? The vast majority of threads about vegans and veganism on TWTD are started my omnivores. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 11:40 - Jan 25 with 1785 views | eireblue |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 09:17 - Jan 25 by wkj |
As previously stated, my main question is based around the 'health-halo' marketing, and seeing the rise of companies putting vegan friendly on these halos is very much a change in veganism and the attitudes toward it, as it has become a marketing vessel.
You're not wrong to raise the point of "Are humans ok with palm oil" but in the context of my OP
Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans stands, when in relation to the marketing of products toward vegans. [Post edited 25 Jan 2019 9:18]
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One of the things I try and do as a Vegan, is support other vegans.
I even do things like, given a choice between buying a product from generic Supermarket, vs from vegan store, I’ll choice the vegan shop, even if the same product is more expensive.
Most specific vegan stuff I buy, will be from a vegan company, and they tend not to use palm oil. E.g. I wouldn’t buy vegan ice cream from Ben and Jerry’s. |  | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:11 - Jan 25 with 1774 views | eireblue |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 09:43 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
I still find it a strange complex for a person to champion a lifestyle of not eating meat and dairy and so on based around not causing or being part animal suffering but can use a product that does in fact cause animal suffering, albeit not directly on a farm. As well as the effects on the environment.
I am not saying you do this but I just feel when others ram it down your throat it is a bit tedious when they preach giving up meat and dairy etc but can use something that really is just as sh!tty with what it cause and how detrimental it is with no real come back. Just be Vegan and get on with it. |
I think your post is based on a false premise. | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:25 - Jan 25 with 1755 views | wkj |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 11:14 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
How companies choose to market stuff has nothing to do with vegans. And if something contains palm oil it doesn't mean it isn't vegan so can be marketed as such. I'm not entirely sure I'm following you really. |
It very much has to do with whoever the marketing is based at, especially if the marketing of a product involves targeting someone who falls into that category, when their claims might involve sourcing from suspect sources - as such this post has come to question the feelings on that for people who shop for vegan products in a store, rather amazingly not to fire pop shots at vegans, such is a hobby of some on here.
Respectfully, If you do not understand, I apologise, but as eireblue has pointed out on here the vegan society have obviously considered this very issue, as was eloquently answered on page 1 | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:31 - Jan 25 with 1747 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:25 - Jan 25 by wkj |
It very much has to do with whoever the marketing is based at, especially if the marketing of a product involves targeting someone who falls into that category, when their claims might involve sourcing from suspect sources - as such this post has come to question the feelings on that for people who shop for vegan products in a store, rather amazingly not to fire pop shots at vegans, such is a hobby of some on here.
Respectfully, If you do not understand, I apologise, but as eireblue has pointed out on here the vegan society have obviously considered this very issue, as was eloquently answered on page 1 |
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with your premise to be honest. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:35 - Jan 25 with 1742 views | wkj |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:31 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with your premise to be honest. |
What do you question about it specifically? | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:37 - Jan 25 with 1735 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:35 - Jan 25 by wkj |
What do you question about it specifically? |
You seem to be implying that stuff marketed at vegans that contains palm oil is at least partially something vegans are responsible for. It's not a vegan issue, it's essentially an environmental one that everyone should be concerned about. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:40 - Jan 25 with 1732 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:11 - Jan 25 by eireblue |
I think your post is based on a false premise. |
Okay. Why are you vegan out of interest? What drives you to do it? | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:46 - Jan 25 with 1720 views | wkj |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:37 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
You seem to be implying that stuff marketed at vegans that contains palm oil is at least partially something vegans are responsible for. It's not a vegan issue, it's essentially an environmental one that everyone should be concerned about. |
I am in no way implying anything, but certainly not implying vegans are responsible for anything.
I asked a question in the title,
My first paragraph gave context behind my questions
The rest of the OP provides broader context of palm oil and why it is met with controversy.
Food health and marketing is something I have questioned on here over the years, and I have always been a firm opponent of some strategies used, one of the main one being 'Low Fat' on high sugar foods.
Ryorry posted some pictures on another post yesterday with some biscuits which highlights vegan and gluten free on the front, and then I saw palm oil in the ingredient list which made me curious, so began the fact finding post.
The reason why I claim this to potentially be a vegan issue, or enquire about it being one, is simply because I feel it is an example of big business taking the piss and potentially betraying their customers if they indeed source their ingredients from an uncertified source.
The palm oil discussion certainly warrants discussion on a larger scale regardless of lifestyle, though this is more of a targeted marketing based curiosity, at least within this post. [Post edited 25 Jan 2019 12:48]
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:47 - Jan 25 with 1719 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 11:16 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Who is preaching? The vast majority of threads about vegans and veganism on TWTD are started my omnivores. |
Did I say on TWTD? No I did not. | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:55 - Jan 25 with 1705 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:46 - Jan 25 by wkj |
I am in no way implying anything, but certainly not implying vegans are responsible for anything.
I asked a question in the title,
My first paragraph gave context behind my questions
The rest of the OP provides broader context of palm oil and why it is met with controversy.
Food health and marketing is something I have questioned on here over the years, and I have always been a firm opponent of some strategies used, one of the main one being 'Low Fat' on high sugar foods.
Ryorry posted some pictures on another post yesterday with some biscuits which highlights vegan and gluten free on the front, and then I saw palm oil in the ingredient list which made me curious, so began the fact finding post.
The reason why I claim this to potentially be a vegan issue, or enquire about it being one, is simply because I feel it is an example of big business taking the piss and potentially betraying their customers if they indeed source their ingredients from an uncertified source.
The palm oil discussion certainly warrants discussion on a larger scale regardless of lifestyle, though this is more of a targeted marketing based curiosity, at least within this post. [Post edited 25 Jan 2019 12:48]
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But palm oil is not an animal derived product so there isn't really an issue with products that contain it being labelled vegan. If a product is labelled vegan I know it contains no animal products, I don't assume it'll be healthy or even necessarily ethical. Those are separate issues. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:55 - Jan 25 with 1699 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:47 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
Did I say on TWTD? No I did not. |
Out of interest, how regarlarly do vegans preach at you in real life and in what context? | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:56 - Jan 25 with 1697 views | eireblue |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:40 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
Okay. Why are you vegan out of interest? What drives you to do it? |
Unfortunately, I am off to work now.
And that is a big question.
Best way to get to that answer though; you could read books by Peter Singer, or more recently there have been some good articles by Yuval Noah Harari on veganism.
That would be a good start in helping to somewhat answer both of those questions. | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:57 - Jan 25 with 1697 views | wkj |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:55 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
But palm oil is not an animal derived product so there isn't really an issue with products that contain it being labelled vegan. If a product is labelled vegan I know it contains no animal products, I don't assume it'll be healthy or even necessarily ethical. Those are separate issues. |
Well, i respect your opinion on the matter, it seems a polarising point of consideration as I am learning. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:04 - Jan 25 with 1692 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:55 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Out of interest, how regarlarly do vegans preach at you in real life and in what context? |
Forgive me for not going into too much detail on a forum but I do have two people in my day to day life who do regularly impress it on me at least a couple of times a week. Lets not take me too literal here but just because you may not believe it or it does not happen to you/you don't do it, does not mean it is not true.
In the context of animal suffering and questioned why I choose to eat meat/dairy etc. Not for say the benefits of not eating red meat or other health and lifestyle benefits. | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:07 - Jan 25 with 1686 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 12:56 - Jan 25 by eireblue |
Unfortunately, I am off to work now.
And that is a big question.
Best way to get to that answer though; you could read books by Peter Singer, or more recently there have been some good articles by Yuval Noah Harari on veganism.
That would be a good start in helping to somewhat answer both of those questions. |
To be frank not too interested in a level that I would read a book on it. Not gonna pretend to you I will go off and read it.
Just merely asked at a conversational level as I am sure you could explain to me in relatively simple terms and then I may or may not be able to highlight what I mean depending on your circumstances. But appreciate you are off to work. | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:07 - Jan 25 with 1686 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:04 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
Forgive me for not going into too much detail on a forum but I do have two people in my day to day life who do regularly impress it on me at least a couple of times a week. Lets not take me too literal here but just because you may not believe it or it does not happen to you/you don't do it, does not mean it is not true.
In the context of animal suffering and questioned why I choose to eat meat/dairy etc. Not for say the benefits of not eating red meat or other health and lifestyle benefits. |
Is questioning why you eat meat really preaching? You've just asked eireblue why he doesn't eat meat. I wouldn't describe you as preaching to him. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:12 - Jan 25 with 1679 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:07 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Is questioning why you eat meat really preaching? You've just asked eireblue why he doesn't eat meat. I wouldn't describe you as preaching to him. |
I am asking on a forum where it is based around the topic of discussion. You seem to be picking bones, friend.
Have I asked eireblue weekly why he is a vegan no? My post said I have it impressed upon me in my life a couple of times a week. I believe you are just being hard work for the sake of it. So apply that when I continuously ask him on here a couple of times a week. Which I won't. Your issue clearly is being a vegan you do not like me saying another vegan impresses it upon me and you are simply choosing not to believe it and being rather selective in what you pick at. | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:25 - Jan 25 with 1664 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:12 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
I am asking on a forum where it is based around the topic of discussion. You seem to be picking bones, friend.
Have I asked eireblue weekly why he is a vegan no? My post said I have it impressed upon me in my life a couple of times a week. I believe you are just being hard work for the sake of it. So apply that when I continuously ask him on here a couple of times a week. Which I won't. Your issue clearly is being a vegan you do not like me saying another vegan impresses it upon me and you are simply choosing not to believe it and being rather selective in what you pick at. |
I don't really care whether someone asks you a couple of times a week why you eat meat or not, mate. Makes no odds to me. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:29 - Jan 25 with 1658 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:25 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
I don't really care whether someone asks you a couple of times a week why you eat meat or not, mate. Makes no odds to me. |
You asked the question. You then got the answer.
But yeah play the you don't care card... | | | |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 14:21 - Jan 25 with 1643 views | Herbivore |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 13:29 - Jan 25 by Bueller |
You asked the question. You then got the answer.
But yeah play the you don't care card... |
Well I'd still query whether it qualifies as preaching but it certainly seems to bother you. Each to their own. | |
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| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 14:58 - Jan 25 with 1625 views | Bueller |
| Should Palm Oil be okay with Vegans? on 14:21 - Jan 25 by Herbivore |
Well I'd still query whether it qualifies as preaching but it certainly seems to bother you. Each to their own. |
Man you are some sad c!nt to be quite honest.
But for the most part preaching probably the wrong word to use so yes, can agree there. | | | |
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