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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. 17:42 - Apr 25 with 419844 viewsEireannach_gorm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/evidence-ukraine-women-raped-befor





https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turned-a-bucha-building-into-an-execution-si
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:10 - Dec 15 with 2445 viewsWeWereZombies

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:22 - Dec 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67724357.amp

Putin lapdog and simpleton Orban has blocked an EU aid package to Ukraine. This after refusing to provide them with weapons, opposing sanctions on Russia, and opposing Ukrainian EU membership.

Particularly odd for a country that is a net recipient of EU Funds and a NATO member. Perhaps NATO should cut him loose and let Hungary become a vassal to Russia in the same way they have done to Belarus.


Tempting as the idea of booting Hungary out of the European Union (not that citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have any say in the matter) is I think you should consider what message that would send to Romania, Poland, the Slovak Republic, Czechia, the Baltic States and Bulgaria where internal issues around Russian speakers persist.

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:38 - Dec 15 with 2420 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:10 - Dec 15 by WeWereZombies

Tempting as the idea of booting Hungary out of the European Union (not that citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have any say in the matter) is I think you should consider what message that would send to Romania, Poland, the Slovak Republic, Czechia, the Baltic States and Bulgaria where internal issues around Russian speakers persist.


I didn’t suggest kicking them out of the EU, they’ll get Orban in line eventually as they did with Poland by withholding funding. Albeit the issues around Poland were more to the interference in judiciary, media, as well as increasing illiberalism.

Some of the countries you reference have in fact been the most bullish on opposing Russia - particularly Poland and the Baltic states in both supplying advanced weaponry, (and in anti Russian rhetoric). Poland warned Germany years ago about becoming reliant on Russian gas, and the Baltic states were eager for NATO to bolster their forces there. I don’t think they would blink if the EU were to punish Orban’s regime.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:13 - Dec 15 with 2394 viewsWeWereZombies

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:38 - Dec 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna

I didn’t suggest kicking them out of the EU, they’ll get Orban in line eventually as they did with Poland by withholding funding. Albeit the issues around Poland were more to the interference in judiciary, media, as well as increasing illiberalism.

Some of the countries you reference have in fact been the most bullish on opposing Russia - particularly Poland and the Baltic states in both supplying advanced weaponry, (and in anti Russian rhetoric). Poland warned Germany years ago about becoming reliant on Russian gas, and the Baltic states were eager for NATO to bolster their forces there. I don’t think they would blink if the EU were to punish Orban’s regime.


All of the countries mentioned still have some degree of reliance upon Russia for energy supplies, there have been questions raised about the level of Russian investment (most famously concerning the role of the Estonian president's husband) in those nations too. So the European Union have an uphill struggle when it comes to substantive action in the face of internal conflicts, which politicians like Orban can exploit to their advantage. And Putin can exploit to claim that human rights of Russian speakers in those countries have been violated (this was something of an issue in Estonia last year too) so that he can amplify his sabre-rattling.

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:46 - Dec 15 with 2360 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:13 - Dec 15 by WeWereZombies

All of the countries mentioned still have some degree of reliance upon Russia for energy supplies, there have been questions raised about the level of Russian investment (most famously concerning the role of the Estonian president's husband) in those nations too. So the European Union have an uphill struggle when it comes to substantive action in the face of internal conflicts, which politicians like Orban can exploit to their advantage. And Putin can exploit to claim that human rights of Russian speakers in those countries have been violated (this was something of an issue in Estonia last year too) so that he can amplify his sabre-rattling.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/1201743/russian-gas-dependence-in-europe-by-

Their dependence was far lower than Western Europe. Most of the Eastern European and Baltic nations (Latvia aside) have long been cautious on Russian commodities given Putin’s previous actions of weaponising supplies, and cutting them off to exert pressure. Orban is very much an outlier. Poland is on the way to becoming an economic powerhouse and military superpower. It’s doubling its armed forces to over 300k, making it probably the largest in Continental Europe. As well as Poland warning Germany of the dangers of being too reliant, the US told the Germans not to go ahead with Nordstream. Unfortunately they are now paying the price with the worst performing economy in Western Europe.

The ethnic Russians have long been a source of controversy in the Baltics. In Estonia, many do not even have citizenship. There were also protests when the Estonians pulled down statues from their days under Soviet occupation. However, it’s not tested their resolve, especially since Putin only last year stated the Baltic states ‘should not exist’.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:21 - Dec 19 with 2213 viewsEireannach_gorm


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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:44 - Dec 19 with 2157 viewsDJR

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:21 - Dec 19 by Eireannach_gorm




Interesting to see from this article that dissatisfaction by the young over Biden's stance on Gaza is tending rather bizarrely to make some of them favour Trump, which doesn't augur well for Ukraine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-poll.html
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 12:19 - Dec 20 with 2093 viewsEireannach_gorm

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 21:44 - Dec 19 by DJR

Interesting to see from this article that dissatisfaction by the young over Biden's stance on Gaza is tending rather bizarrely to make some of them favour Trump, which doesn't augur well for Ukraine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-poll.html


I can see the logic there!!

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-tru
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:39 - Dec 21 with 2009 viewsEireannach_gorm

10 year anniversary of this attempt to gain EU membership.



Which ended up with this.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:18 - Dec 21 with 1985 viewsNthsuffolkblue

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 18:39 - Dec 21 by Eireannach_gorm

10 year anniversary of this attempt to gain EU membership.



Which ended up with this.



I don't recall hearing anything of this before.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 20:31 - Dec 21 with 1959 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 19:18 - Dec 21 by Nthsuffolkblue

I don't recall hearing anything of this before.


It was out there....lots of hard-core fascists died.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 01:21 - Dec 22 with 1895 viewsEireannach_gorm

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 20:31 - Dec 21 by BanksterDebtSlave

It was out there....lots of hard-core fascists died.


Interesting take on the Maidan protest. Not sure how the 100 Nazis were picked out of the thousands of ordinary citizens. What actually happened is freely available on your search engine of choice
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:48 - Dec 22 with 1824 viewsNthsuffolkblue

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 01:21 - Dec 22 by Eireannach_gorm

Interesting take on the Maidan protest. Not sure how the 100 Nazis were picked out of the thousands of ordinary citizens. What actually happened is freely available on your search engine of choice


I wasn't sure how to take Banksy's comment there. I wondered if it was irony based on Russia's stance that the Ukraine is a Nazi regime. But it could also be taken as the idea that anyone who was involved in the uprising was a Nazi.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:08 - Dec 22 with 1804 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 01:21 - Dec 22 by Eireannach_gorm

Interesting take on the Maidan protest. Not sure how the 100 Nazis were picked out of the thousands of ordinary citizens. What actually happened is freely available on your search engine of choice


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/wusa.12457

Abstract

This study examines the role of the far right in the Euromaidan in Ukraine, primarily in the Maidan massacre and other key cases of violence. The involvement of far-right organizations in these crucial events in the Ukrainian and world politics has been politicized and polarized in Ukraine, the West, and Russia. This study analyzes various data sources, such as online live streams and TV broadcasts, videos, broadcasts of the Maidan massacre trials, the database of court decisions in Ukraine, media reports, and field research on the Maidan. The findings reveal that radical nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations had significant but minority representation among the Maidan leadership and protesters. However, the analysis shows that the far-right organizations and football ultras played a key role in political violence such as attempting to seize the presidential administration and the parliament. It reveals involvement of the Right Sector in violent clashes with the Berkut special police force during the highly publicized dispersal of Maidan protesters on November 30, 2013. The Right Sector and Svoboda had crucial roles in the violent overthrow of the Yanukovych government, in particular, in the Maidan massacre of the protesters and the police.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:09 - Dec 22 with 1801 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:48 - Dec 22 by Nthsuffolkblue

I wasn't sure how to take Banksy's comment there. I wondered if it was irony based on Russia's stance that the Ukraine is a Nazi regime. But it could also be taken as the idea that anyone who was involved in the uprising was a Nazi.


Neither of those.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 11:58 - Dec 22 with 1755 viewsEireannach_gorm

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:08 - Dec 22 by BanksterDebtSlave

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/wusa.12457

Abstract

This study examines the role of the far right in the Euromaidan in Ukraine, primarily in the Maidan massacre and other key cases of violence. The involvement of far-right organizations in these crucial events in the Ukrainian and world politics has been politicized and polarized in Ukraine, the West, and Russia. This study analyzes various data sources, such as online live streams and TV broadcasts, videos, broadcasts of the Maidan massacre trials, the database of court decisions in Ukraine, media reports, and field research on the Maidan. The findings reveal that radical nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations had significant but minority representation among the Maidan leadership and protesters. However, the analysis shows that the far-right organizations and football ultras played a key role in political violence such as attempting to seize the presidential administration and the parliament. It reveals involvement of the Right Sector in violent clashes with the Berkut special police force during the highly publicized dispersal of Maidan protesters on November 30, 2013. The Right Sector and Svoboda had crucial roles in the violent overthrow of the Yanukovych government, in particular, in the Maidan massacre of the protesters and the police.


Which confirms that none of the protestors that were killed were Nazis.

The author of the article has done extensive research on the killings but the analysis of the findings seems one sided.

He doubled down in this article prior to the most recent democratic Russian invasion by stating that " Western governments backed this undemocratic overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government."

https://truthout.org/articles/lies-about-ukraine-conflict-are-standing-in-the-wa

Clear where his symphaties lie.

There were clearly many factions involved in a protest that went on for several months but it was undeniably triggered by the Russian backed presidents ( escaped to Russia later ) last minute decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia.That WAS undemocratic.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 12:33 - Dec 22 with 1727 viewsEireannach_gorm

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:09 - Dec 22 by BanksterDebtSlave

Neither of those.


fill your boots and come back to me on his unbiased views.

https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 13:11 - Dec 22 with 1706 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:08 - Dec 22 by BanksterDebtSlave

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/wusa.12457

Abstract

This study examines the role of the far right in the Euromaidan in Ukraine, primarily in the Maidan massacre and other key cases of violence. The involvement of far-right organizations in these crucial events in the Ukrainian and world politics has been politicized and polarized in Ukraine, the West, and Russia. This study analyzes various data sources, such as online live streams and TV broadcasts, videos, broadcasts of the Maidan massacre trials, the database of court decisions in Ukraine, media reports, and field research on the Maidan. The findings reveal that radical nationalist and neo-Nazi organizations had significant but minority representation among the Maidan leadership and protesters. However, the analysis shows that the far-right organizations and football ultras played a key role in political violence such as attempting to seize the presidential administration and the parliament. It reveals involvement of the Right Sector in violent clashes with the Berkut special police force during the highly publicized dispersal of Maidan protesters on November 30, 2013. The Right Sector and Svoboda had crucial roles in the violent overthrow of the Yanukovych government, in particular, in the Maidan massacre of the protesters and the police.


You got very upset when people were conflating pro Palestinian protesters being lumped in with a small minority of pro-Hamas supporters. Fair enough, I’d agree - yet you seem to be doing the same here. I’d note you were also pushing the Ukrainians/Nazis narrative at the outset of the Russian invasion. It’s pretty flimsy too when you consider which side are the ethni-nationalists, waging total war against a neighbour (to free the sudeten Russians!?), and facistly suppressing any international news and reporting.

I’m not sure who this chap is but his views do not align with any other sources I’ve seen. It appears he has an agenda to push this as a far right coup. In doing so he appears to be inflating the significance of that element. I’ve read a lot of different articles on this and he seems to be out on a limb.

Having seen the link to his Twitter, it’s pretty clear he’s a stooge, and anti western , despite living in the comfort and safety of Canada.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 13:22 - Dec 22 with 1692 viewsNthsuffolkblue

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 10:09 - Dec 22 by BanksterDebtSlave

Neither of those.


OK. Please do explain "lots of hard-core fascists died" then.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:34 - Dec 22 with 1646 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 13:22 - Dec 22 by Nthsuffolkblue

OK. Please do explain "lots of hard-core fascists died" then.


Because some people are so far down the anti-Western rabbit hole they are prepared to believe the narrative of despots and gangsters, and those that push their narrative.

Eventually, as in this case, they become a parody of themselves.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:04 - Dec 22 with 1604 viewsEireannach_gorm

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:34 - Dec 22 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Because some people are so far down the anti-Western rabbit hole they are prepared to believe the narrative of despots and gangsters, and those that push their narrative.

Eventually, as in this case, they become a parody of themselves.


I didn't see any of them wearing this.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:07 - Dec 22 with 1568 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 13:22 - Dec 22 by Nthsuffolkblue

OK. Please do explain "lots of hard-core fascists died" then.


I followed the events at maidan closely at the time and was generally sympathetic but it was clear from worn insignia that many of the most active/violent were nationalists and ultras. It seemed fair to assume that in this context many of those that died would have been fascists.
However you are right that I do not know the exact proportion but some were definitely fully signed up party members the numbers of those that were broadly sympathetic but not members cannot be known...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:15 - Dec 22 with 1551 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 14:34 - Dec 22 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Because some people are so far down the anti-Western rabbit hole they are prepared to believe the narrative of despots and gangsters, and those that push their narrative.

Eventually, as in this case, they become a parody of themselves.


Interesting but entirely a figment of your imagination.....baaa!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:17 - Dec 22 with 1542 viewsNthsuffolkblue

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 17:07 - Dec 22 by BanksterDebtSlave

I followed the events at maidan closely at the time and was generally sympathetic but it was clear from worn insignia that many of the most active/violent were nationalists and ultras. It seemed fair to assume that in this context many of those that died would have been fascists.
However you are right that I do not know the exact proportion but some were definitely fully signed up party members the numbers of those that were broadly sympathetic but not members cannot be known...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties


17% were police is all I have seen reported. I suspect that a large percentage were not as you describe. The generalisation "lots of hard-core fascists died" seems callous and unhelpful.

The trouble that led to those was caused by "lots of hard-core fascists" might have been a better phraseology if that's what you meant.
[Post edited 23 Dec 2023 14:55]

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:12 - Dec 23 with 1456 viewsWeWereZombies

I caught an interesting 'Crossing Continents' on Radio Four as I was driving south on Thursday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001tj02

'Tim Whewell visits Bucha, near the capital Kyiv, site of some of the worst Russian atrocities, to see the beginning of reconstruction. A series of shocking reports by Ukrainian journalists into alleged misuse of rebuilding funds have forced local authorities in the area to explain themselves. But a new state reconstruction agency committed to transparency has now also started work in Bucha. And anti-corruption campaigners believe a new digital accounting and monitoring system they are developing in collaboration with the authorities will help turn Ukraine into a world beacon of openness'

I knew from interviews with Ukrainian opposition politicians that corruption was a problem and I knew that the situation after the fall of the Berlin Wall had been awful but didn't realise that they were still dismal. One hundred and sixteenth in the openness and clean operation ratings of Transparency International. Much improved but nowhere near good enough and a problem when it comes to aid.

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:37 - Dec 23 with 1433 viewsDJR

The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:12 - Dec 23 by WeWereZombies

I caught an interesting 'Crossing Continents' on Radio Four as I was driving south on Thursday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001tj02

'Tim Whewell visits Bucha, near the capital Kyiv, site of some of the worst Russian atrocities, to see the beginning of reconstruction. A series of shocking reports by Ukrainian journalists into alleged misuse of rebuilding funds have forced local authorities in the area to explain themselves. But a new state reconstruction agency committed to transparency has now also started work in Bucha. And anti-corruption campaigners believe a new digital accounting and monitoring system they are developing in collaboration with the authorities will help turn Ukraine into a world beacon of openness'

I knew from interviews with Ukrainian opposition politicians that corruption was a problem and I knew that the situation after the fall of the Berlin Wall had been awful but didn't realise that they were still dismal. One hundred and sixteenth in the openness and clean operation ratings of Transparency International. Much improved but nowhere near good enough and a problem when it comes to aid.


I heard that too.

Corruption would also seem an obstacle to EU membership (presumably some way off), as does the fact that Ukraine comes 87th in the Economist Democracy Index. According to that Index, Ukraine is regarded as a hybrid regime which is defined thus.

"Hybrid regimes are nations with regular electoral frauds, preventing them from being fair and free democracies. These nations commonly have governments that apply pressure on political opposition, non-independent judiciaries, widespread corruption, harassment and pressure placed on the media, anaemic rule of law, and more pronounced faults than flawed democracies in the realms of underdeveloped political culture, low levels of participation in politics, and issues in the functioning of governance."
[Post edited 23 Dec 2023 10:01]
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