| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football 11:52 - Aug 21 with 9852 views | Eireannach_gorm |
Wonder did he use his tongue? |  | | |  |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 16:28 - Aug 28 with 1342 views | Ryorry |
So now his mother's now going large with the emotional blackmail - what a family.
The other thing is - why didn't EUFA step in before FIFA did? You've really gotta wonder what's been going on behind the scenes. |  |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 19:01 - Aug 28 with 1286 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 16:28 - Aug 28 by Ryorry |
So now his mother's now going large with the emotional blackmail - what a family.
The other thing is - why didn't EUFA step in before FIFA did? You've really gotta wonder what's been going on behind the scenes. |
The crucial question here is, did she ask for the Priest's consent before inflicting herself on his church?
It doesn't answer the Nature v Nurture debate, but does help us to spot from where he might have got his proclivity for coercive, manipulative behaviour and grandiose gestures. |  | | |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 19:50 - Aug 28 with 1254 views | vapour_trail |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 16:28 - Aug 28 by Ryorry |
So now his mother's now going large with the emotional blackmail - what a family.
The other thing is - why didn't EUFA step in before FIFA did? You've really gotta wonder what's been going on behind the scenes. |
That f£&@ing woman should have raised a better son. She’s a big part of the problem. Imagine defending this nonsense. |  |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 20:34 - Aug 28 with 1236 views | JammyDodgerrr |
The Spanish FA have now requested that UEFA ban all Spanish teams from competing in their competitions, to try and put pressure on players to side with the president. Astonishing stuff.
I cannot see what they are trying to achieve with all this; other than cover up more incidents? There must be a reason they are pushing so hard to back him. |  |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 21:30 - Aug 28 with 1186 views | vapour_trail |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 20:34 - Aug 28 by JammyDodgerrr |
The Spanish FA have now requested that UEFA ban all Spanish teams from competing in their competitions, to try and put pressure on players to side with the president. Astonishing stuff.
I cannot see what they are trying to achieve with all this; other than cover up more incidents? There must be a reason they are pushing so hard to back him. |
The Spanish men footballers are too quiet. They should be standing this sh1t down as well and getting rid of thes. They’re compliant. | |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 22:18 - Aug 28 with 1149 views | BarcaBlue |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 20:34 - Aug 28 by JammyDodgerrr |
The Spanish FA have now requested that UEFA ban all Spanish teams from competing in their competitions, to try and put pressure on players to side with the president. Astonishing stuff.
I cannot see what they are trying to achieve with all this; other than cover up more incidents? There must be a reason they are pushing so hard to back him. |
There's a gravy train and nobody wants to get off.
Look at the men's and women's national coaches clapping like seals during Rubiales' speech and a day later saying his actions were inappropriate. |  | | |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 09:32 - Aug 29 with 1040 views | ibbleobble |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 11:24 - Aug 26 by ArnoldMoorhen |
So your response to Town winning promotion would be to sexually assault the Ipswich captain?
Because you will be in a moment of celebration, and you believe that justifies you celebrating in any way you want?
And you have gone further. When asked what if Sam Morsy wouldn't want you to kiss him, your response is "Who cares?" And you then go on to presume to say how he should respond, should you kiss him non-consensually, and to criticise those who might object to your behaviour in this hypothetical scenario.
Three thoughts:
1. This behaviour would constitute a sexual assault.
2. You weren't "in the heat of the moment" when you wrote either your initial post about kissing Sam, or the further post saying that you wouldn't care if he consented or not. Rather this is a pre-meditated fantasy involving forcing yourself physically on someone, with mental gymnastics to justify it and shift blame on to others.
Both the fantasising of the offence, and the minimising of the impact on the victim, are classic parts of the cycle of behaviour of sexual offenders. (Source: Higher Level Child Protection training)
3. I am concerned about a society where people become so entitled with regard to their "life experiences" that they could even consider the possibility that as a football fan their "right" to celebrate a major win by the team they support is more important than the right of the players who actually won the match/tournament/promotion to celebrate it how *they* want to. For example, being able to celebrate with the team mates and staff who won the victory, rather than being sexually assaulted on the biggest day of their careers. [Post edited 26 Aug 2023 11:25]
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Sexual assault is defined on the severity of the act. A sexual assault could be something as trivial as touching an arm if it were deemed to have intent of a sexual nature. A kiss is also in that definition of sexual assault but again, it’s a very grey area that comes down to intent.
As always in this world of social media scrutiny and mobile technology where there’s always polarised opinion, what may or may not have been an innocent impulse has been blown-up and gone under the microscope. The fact there’s a sliding scale of kiss from sexual intent to familial nurturing shows how difficult a criminal prosecution is going to be. I think we can safely say in this instance it’s not the latter.
My mates mum kisses me on the lips. It’s weird and makes me feel uncomfortable but I’m not about to bring criminal charges. My mate also kisses me on the lips as she does everyone in front of her boyfriend. I too find that slightly uncomfortable but again, I wouldn’t take it any further. The point is, I’m happy to let them be themselves as long as there’s no harm done if it thats their way of expressing themselves so I find your point about entitlement on life experiences very OTT as I do this whole storm in a tea cup fiasco because unless it comes out that there’s previous history there that needs attention, that’s exactly what this is, a storm in a teacup. | | | |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 13:21 - Aug 29 with 975 views | Ryorry |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 09:32 - Aug 29 by ibbleobble |
Sexual assault is defined on the severity of the act. A sexual assault could be something as trivial as touching an arm if it were deemed to have intent of a sexual nature. A kiss is also in that definition of sexual assault but again, it’s a very grey area that comes down to intent.
As always in this world of social media scrutiny and mobile technology where there’s always polarised opinion, what may or may not have been an innocent impulse has been blown-up and gone under the microscope. The fact there’s a sliding scale of kiss from sexual intent to familial nurturing shows how difficult a criminal prosecution is going to be. I think we can safely say in this instance it’s not the latter.
My mates mum kisses me on the lips. It’s weird and makes me feel uncomfortable but I’m not about to bring criminal charges. My mate also kisses me on the lips as she does everyone in front of her boyfriend. I too find that slightly uncomfortable but again, I wouldn’t take it any further. The point is, I’m happy to let them be themselves as long as there’s no harm done if it thats their way of expressing themselves so I find your point about entitlement on life experiences very OTT as I do this whole storm in a tea cup fiasco because unless it comes out that there’s previous history there that needs attention, that’s exactly what this is, a storm in a teacup. |
So you’ve completely disregarded the feelings and view of the woman who was assaulted.then. Despicable. | |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 13:26 - Aug 29 with 970 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 09:32 - Aug 29 by ibbleobble |
Sexual assault is defined on the severity of the act. A sexual assault could be something as trivial as touching an arm if it were deemed to have intent of a sexual nature. A kiss is also in that definition of sexual assault but again, it’s a very grey area that comes down to intent.
As always in this world of social media scrutiny and mobile technology where there’s always polarised opinion, what may or may not have been an innocent impulse has been blown-up and gone under the microscope. The fact there’s a sliding scale of kiss from sexual intent to familial nurturing shows how difficult a criminal prosecution is going to be. I think we can safely say in this instance it’s not the latter.
My mates mum kisses me on the lips. It’s weird and makes me feel uncomfortable but I’m not about to bring criminal charges. My mate also kisses me on the lips as she does everyone in front of her boyfriend. I too find that slightly uncomfortable but again, I wouldn’t take it any further. The point is, I’m happy to let them be themselves as long as there’s no harm done if it thats their way of expressing themselves so I find your point about entitlement on life experiences very OTT as I do this whole storm in a tea cup fiasco because unless it comes out that there’s previous history there that needs attention, that’s exactly what this is, a storm in a teacup. |
Your last point - 'The point is, I’m happy to let them be themselves as long as there’s no harm done'
is fine other than the fact there is harm being done, in that you are being made to feel weird and uncomfortable, you have said as much. That may not be their intent, but it is happening. You are being sexually assaulted, however much you would like to point away from that. Rubiales intent may have been to celebrate the win but he has crossed far over a mark and he has sexually assaulted her. He did intentionally kiss her, and she did not consent.
Rapecrisis UK defines sexual assault as 'when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching'. Case closed, to me. | |
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| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 17:42 - Aug 29 with 918 views | ibbleobble |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 13:26 - Aug 29 by JammyDodgerrr |
Your last point - 'The point is, I’m happy to let them be themselves as long as there’s no harm done'
is fine other than the fact there is harm being done, in that you are being made to feel weird and uncomfortable, you have said as much. That may not be their intent, but it is happening. You are being sexually assaulted, however much you would like to point away from that. Rubiales intent may have been to celebrate the win but he has crossed far over a mark and he has sexually assaulted her. He did intentionally kiss her, and she did not consent.
Rapecrisis UK defines sexual assault as 'when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching'. Case closed, to me. |
I don’t see that as ‘harmful’ to me though. The definition of harm is physical injury, it’s hardly that!
A judge recently ruled against kissing as sexual assault as he felt the intent was at the other end of the scale at it was more familial. If the law was as black and white as you say, every goal I’ve ever celebrated in the north stand would constitute as sexual assault given the number of folk who’ve grappled me in wild jubilation given shoulder touching also constitutes sexual assault.
Rubiales was naive no doubt, that much we can agree on. A humble, sincere apology and grovel not to lose his job may have sufficed (assuming there’s nothing more sinister we don’t know about) in my view. A charge of sexual assault for a kiss broadcast to the world at a moment of heightened jubilation seems a bit strong to me but I take both sides of the argument. | | | |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 20:39 - Aug 29 with 853 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| There seems to be a touch of toxic masculinity in Spanish Womans football on 17:42 - Aug 29 by ibbleobble |
I don’t see that as ‘harmful’ to me though. The definition of harm is physical injury, it’s hardly that!
A judge recently ruled against kissing as sexual assault as he felt the intent was at the other end of the scale at it was more familial. If the law was as black and white as you say, every goal I’ve ever celebrated in the north stand would constitute as sexual assault given the number of folk who’ve grappled me in wild jubilation given shoulder touching also constitutes sexual assault.
Rubiales was naive no doubt, that much we can agree on. A humble, sincere apology and grovel not to lose his job may have sufficed (assuming there’s nothing more sinister we don’t know about) in my view. A charge of sexual assault for a kiss broadcast to the world at a moment of heightened jubilation seems a bit strong to me but I take both sides of the argument. |
As I'm sure you will actually know, physical harm is not the only form of harm.
And whilst that judge did rule that, the court of appeal disagreed and said intent did not matter and has now clarified that - 'The Court of Appeal has now ruled that this is not the case – a sexual assault can be argued if the evidence supports it regardless of whether the defendant intended the assault to be sexual. This will provide clarity for future cases, although it will not affect the original case.'
I don't quite know what your example is trying to prove other than the original point. If the touching is unwanted and someone feels uncomfortable; then it is inappropriate.
It's quite simple and Rubiales(and the RFEF to some extent) deserves everything that is coming thier way. | |
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