| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 20:26 - Aug 19 with 1959 views | Swansea_Blue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 18:25 - Aug 19 by DJR |
Taking it down to an individual level, my mother-in-law's 10 week (and counting) stay in hospital has proved that the hospital she is in desperately short of staff and testing capacity. The result has been that she has suffered damage to her brain as a result of a lack of both medical and non-medical care, and the hospital has admitted that it got things wrong.
She has gone from someone who did not need care to someone who will need 24 hour care, and none of this was necessary, had she been properly treated for something that wasn't that serious.
Clamping down further on immigration isn't going to do people like her any good, and may well affect her ability to get care (given the recent drop in those arriving), thus prolonging her stay in hospital once she is fit to be discharged. [Post edited 19 Aug 2024 18:31]
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That’s awful DJR, so sorry to hear that.
Care is in the news tonight again for all the wrong reasons - https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/19/sixfold-rise-in-foreign- That’s health and care in a right old mess. I don’t know what the answer is in the long term, but we’ll probably need significant immigration to fill gaps in the short term. And those people need to be protected, not exploited. |  |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 20:56 - Aug 19 with 1898 views | jayessess |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 20:25 - Aug 19 by lowhouseblue |
yes we need people to work. one third of current visas are for work (of which half are actually for dependents of workers). yes we absolutely need immigrants to work - but with our current 2 million net inflow over 3 years the costs are also real. were you too pressed for time to consider those costs for some reason? |
Explicitly considering the costs.
"Is it really a good trade off to understaff care homes and hospitals, have UK businesses go without skilled workers that they need, for a (possibly unrealistic) shot at controlling housing costs?"
As it happens I'm also extremely sceptical that a drastic reduction in immigration would do much to house prices (and that scepticism is shared by a lot of people who own their own homes outright, who consistently tend to vote more for the most anti-immigration parties and tend to also worry about the value of their homes!), but that wouldn't actually change the trade off here. [Post edited 19 Aug 2024 20:57]
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 20:56 - Aug 19 with 1896 views | Swansea_Blue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 19:40 - Aug 19 by lowhouseblue |
you don't seem to understand the difference between immigration numbers and net migration. I really don't know how to help you. the number of students arriving in any year is obviously high, but the size of the overseas student population is not rising substantially. the overseas student population has not risen by 2 million over the 3 years. it's stocks v. flows. it's really basic maths. there has not been a big rise in the overseas student population since covid. just making stuff up to deny the figures doesn't answer the question. |
You’re confusing the feck out of me and I never said the student population has grown by 2 million over 3 years. What I said was that overseas students are a significant part of the net migration figures, broadly on a par now with workers (but have been the dominant component in the 2 immediate years following Covid). It’s all in the UK Govt figures. But I’m done, as you’re obviously just wanting to be condescending and argumentative. | |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 22:17 - Aug 19 with 1849 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 20:56 - Aug 19 by Swansea_Blue |
You’re confusing the feck out of me and I never said the student population has grown by 2 million over 3 years. What I said was that overseas students are a significant part of the net migration figures, broadly on a par now with workers (but have been the dominant component in the 2 immediate years following Covid). It’s all in the UK Govt figures. But I’m done, as you’re obviously just wanting to be condescending and argumentative. |
"What I said was that overseas students are a significant part of the net migration figure"
no they're not. you're confusing immigration stats with net migration. the overseas student numbers here have not risen. students come, students go. the effect on the number here at any point is not great. its really is basic maths. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 22:21 - Aug 19 with 1828 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 20:56 - Aug 19 by jayessess |
Explicitly considering the costs.
"Is it really a good trade off to understaff care homes and hospitals, have UK businesses go without skilled workers that they need, for a (possibly unrealistic) shot at controlling housing costs?"
As it happens I'm also extremely sceptical that a drastic reduction in immigration would do much to house prices (and that scepticism is shared by a lot of people who own their own homes outright, who consistently tend to vote more for the most anti-immigration parties and tend to also worry about the value of their homes!), but that wouldn't actually change the trade off here. [Post edited 19 Aug 2024 20:57]
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"As it happens I'm also extremely sceptical that a drastic reduction in immigration would do much to house prices"
really?? we're not discussing a fall in net migration. you think 2 million extra people arriving over 3 years hasn't affected the housing market? where do you think they live? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 07:15 - Aug 20 with 1700 views | jayessess |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 22:21 - Aug 19 by lowhouseblue |
"As it happens I'm also extremely sceptical that a drastic reduction in immigration would do much to house prices"
really?? we're not discussing a fall in net migration. you think 2 million extra people arriving over 3 years hasn't affected the housing market? where do you think they live? |
This is a bit of a side track because, like I've said several times, the need for labour exists irrespective of housing issues.
When you actually ask people about this trade off, they don't tend to be quite so bullish about how great it would be to have less migration:
The silent majority of Brits are deeply worried about the current direction of immigration policy and the impact this is having on our country.
Time for the government to stop ignoring our concerns and take action. — Jonathan Portes (@jdportes.bsky.social) 2024-08-12T16:48:47.611Z
For what it's worth though, house prices don't particularly track net migration levels. Why? Because the British housing market isn't just about people buying and selling places to live. Accumulating housing wealth is basically Britain's main national sport (and increasingly it's an international sport). Governments and owners/investors have very little interest in a house price crash (or even a deceleration of price increases) and if they thought cutting migration would bring one about, they'd be massively against it. | |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 09:51 - Aug 20 with 1607 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 07:15 - Aug 20 by jayessess |
This is a bit of a side track because, like I've said several times, the need for labour exists irrespective of housing issues.
When you actually ask people about this trade off, they don't tend to be quite so bullish about how great it would be to have less migration:
The silent majority of Brits are deeply worried about the current direction of immigration policy and the impact this is having on our country.
Time for the government to stop ignoring our concerns and take action. — Jonathan Portes (@jdportes.bsky.social) 2024-08-12T16:48:47.611Z
For what it's worth though, house prices don't particularly track net migration levels. Why? Because the British housing market isn't just about people buying and selling places to live. Accumulating housing wealth is basically Britain's main national sport (and increasingly it's an international sport). Governments and owners/investors have very little interest in a house price crash (or even a deceleration of price increases) and if they thought cutting migration would bring one about, they'd be massively against it. |
ok, the housing market is indeed complicated by investors and speculators. house price dynamics are definitely complex (interest rates rising and mortgages being harder to get will have had a big effect). but my question has been much more basic than that. if 2 million more people come here over 3 years, then regardless of ownership or tenancy structures, where do they live? they must be occupying housing units - those units would otherwise have been used in other ways - rented to other tenants, bought by investors to rent out, sold to owner occupiers. take the characteristics of the uk housing market as given (however complex and however modelled in terms of owners and tenants and investors and speculators), we had a wildly acknowledged housing crisis for a decade pre-2020, how has an additional 2 million people over a short period not made that crisis worse? saying the housing market is complicated and house prices are affected by investors is very true, but surely it doesn't stop us concluding that 2 million more people occupying units must displace other people? or were sufficient units just sitting empty? that excess supply was never mentioned in 2020. if in 2020 a million people had suddenly bought second / holiday homes would that have made the housing crisis worse, or would you have said that the market is too complex to answer that? [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 9:53]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 11:04 - Aug 20 with 1514 views | jayessess |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 09:51 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
ok, the housing market is indeed complicated by investors and speculators. house price dynamics are definitely complex (interest rates rising and mortgages being harder to get will have had a big effect). but my question has been much more basic than that. if 2 million more people come here over 3 years, then regardless of ownership or tenancy structures, where do they live? they must be occupying housing units - those units would otherwise have been used in other ways - rented to other tenants, bought by investors to rent out, sold to owner occupiers. take the characteristics of the uk housing market as given (however complex and however modelled in terms of owners and tenants and investors and speculators), we had a wildly acknowledged housing crisis for a decade pre-2020, how has an additional 2 million people over a short period not made that crisis worse? saying the housing market is complicated and house prices are affected by investors is very true, but surely it doesn't stop us concluding that 2 million more people occupying units must displace other people? or were sufficient units just sitting empty? that excess supply was never mentioned in 2020. if in 2020 a million people had suddenly bought second / holiday homes would that have made the housing crisis worse, or would you have said that the market is too complex to answer that? [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 9:53]
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Last survey has 1m unoccupied homes in Britain (roughly 1 in 25 of all homes). That figure has risen 10% in the last 5 years. Of course, I don't want to over-simplify here - a proportion of those homes will be unfit for habitation or not in useful places. But yeah, there isn't and hasn't been an absolute shortage of domiciles.
Don't get me wrong here, it's not that I think population increases have *no effect* on housing costs. It's that I'm not convinced it's the major underlying issue Britain confronts in terms of providing affordable housing for people. I think if the work visa regime tightened significantly, we'd notice much more profound effects on the economy, health and social care than we would on housing costs. | |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 12:13 - Aug 20 with 1435 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 11:04 - Aug 20 by jayessess |
Last survey has 1m unoccupied homes in Britain (roughly 1 in 25 of all homes). That figure has risen 10% in the last 5 years. Of course, I don't want to over-simplify here - a proportion of those homes will be unfit for habitation or not in useful places. But yeah, there isn't and hasn't been an absolute shortage of domiciles.
Don't get me wrong here, it's not that I think population increases have *no effect* on housing costs. It's that I'm not convinced it's the major underlying issue Britain confronts in terms of providing affordable housing for people. I think if the work visa regime tightened significantly, we'd notice much more profound effects on the economy, health and social care than we would on housing costs. |
i haven't argued that it's the "underlying issue Britain confronts in terms of providing affordable housing for people". i've argued that adding 2 million people over 3 years into a country with a housing crisis makes that crisis worse. yes there is an absolute shortage of homes:
https://www.centreforcities.org/publication/the-housebuilding-crisis/
empty homes are only relevant to this when their number changes - it has been pretty stable over time. as you point out, the 2 million extra people have not been accommodated through a fall in the number of empty homes.
only one third of visas are for work and of those half are for dependents not workers. the total level of net migration has not been primarily driven by people working here. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 12:41 - Aug 20 with 1390 views | jayessess |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 12:13 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
i haven't argued that it's the "underlying issue Britain confronts in terms of providing affordable housing for people". i've argued that adding 2 million people over 3 years into a country with a housing crisis makes that crisis worse. yes there is an absolute shortage of homes:
https://www.centreforcities.org/publication/the-housebuilding-crisis/
empty homes are only relevant to this when their number changes - it has been pretty stable over time. as you point out, the 2 million extra people have not been accommodated through a fall in the number of empty homes.
only one third of visas are for work and of those half are for dependents not workers. the total level of net migration has not been primarily driven by people working here. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you telling us to ignore students earlier? If you take the students out then workers and their dependents constitute 88% of all visas issued. Can't have it both ways here.
Again, let's say I accept that adding 2m people made housing costs higher (which isn't what the CFC Report you've linked to is arguing, incidentally, but that's by the by) . We're still right back where we started. How much understaffing in hospitals, care homes and key industries is acceptable in exchange for an (indeterminate) fall in average house prices or average private sector rent? | |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 13:03 - Aug 20 with 1347 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 12:13 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
i haven't argued that it's the "underlying issue Britain confronts in terms of providing affordable housing for people". i've argued that adding 2 million people over 3 years into a country with a housing crisis makes that crisis worse. yes there is an absolute shortage of homes:
https://www.centreforcities.org/publication/the-housebuilding-crisis/
empty homes are only relevant to this when their number changes - it has been pretty stable over time. as you point out, the 2 million extra people have not been accommodated through a fall in the number of empty homes.
only one third of visas are for work and of those half are for dependents not workers. the total level of net migration has not been primarily driven by people working here. |
Both parties are committed to high levels of immigration because it avoids the need to formulate any long term growth strategies. Where we should be focussing on long term fixes for skills shortages, training and apprenticeships, improving our woeful productivity compared to peers, regional inequalities, and falling standards of living. Adding 2m consumers in a couple of years offers a blunt GDP growth outlet (i.e the opposite of Japan) instead of making any plans past the next election.
We’ve been talking about skills shortages for over 20 years, unfortunately it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, because each person that comes to the UK (be that a returning British national, or foreign born immigrant) needs GP’s, surgeons, dentists, schools, accountants, retailers, builders etc. It compounds the skills shortages rather than solves it. That’s aside from the moral issue which is rarely mentioned, of poaching medical staff from countries that have paid to train them (and potentially leaving those countries with their own shortages).
I guess my frustration is that none of our political class have any imagination , or desire to implement long term plans, and in 20 years time we’ll still be talking about skills shortages, lack of productivity and discussing whether we need more/less immigration to fix that.
Edit - apologies the above turned into a bit of a rambling rant about the state of our politicians. I should have also mentioned generational inequality as another thing they fail to address. [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 13:07]
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 13:11 - Aug 20 with 1351 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 12:41 - Aug 20 by jayessess |
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you telling us to ignore students earlier? If you take the students out then workers and their dependents constitute 88% of all visas issued. Can't have it both ways here.
Again, let's say I accept that adding 2m people made housing costs higher (which isn't what the CFC Report you've linked to is arguing, incidentally, but that's by the by) . We're still right back where we started. How much understaffing in hospitals, care homes and key industries is acceptable in exchange for an (indeterminate) fall in average house prices or average private sector rent? |
i did not claim that the report was concerned with the effect of extra people on housing costs - i posted it to illustrate the inadequacy of housing supply, as you well know, and to rebut your claim that supply didn't matter. but that's by the way.
in the year to june 2023 work (including dependents) made up 55% of net migration once education is excluded:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/inter
absolutely we need workers in health and care - that sector makes up 13% of migrant workers. more migrant workers go into retail and hospitality. are more amazon drivers and coffee shop workers worth making the housing crisis worse? (my question is no more slanted than yours). but at least you're now recognising a trade off between benefits and costs - two thirds of the public think we do not currently have that balance right. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 14:25 - Aug 20 with 1269 views | jayessess |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 13:11 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
i did not claim that the report was concerned with the effect of extra people on housing costs - i posted it to illustrate the inadequacy of housing supply, as you well know, and to rebut your claim that supply didn't matter. but that's by the way.
in the year to june 2023 work (including dependents) made up 55% of net migration once education is excluded:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/inter
absolutely we need workers in health and care - that sector makes up 13% of migrant workers. more migrant workers go into retail and hospitality. are more amazon drivers and coffee shop workers worth making the housing crisis worse? (my question is no more slanted than yours). but at least you're now recognising a trade off between benefits and costs - two thirds of the public think we do not currently have that balance right. |
One second you're excluding students, next minute they're back in. One second, we're discussing visas, next it's back to net migration again. Just an incredibly dishonest, obtuse way of having a conversation. [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 14:47]
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 14:41 - Aug 20 with 1224 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 14:25 - Aug 20 by jayessess |
One second you're excluding students, next minute they're back in. One second, we're discussing visas, next it's back to net migration again. Just an incredibly dishonest, obtuse way of having a conversation. [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 14:47]
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the same link also provides data on immigration (as opposed to net migration) by reason. in the year to june 2023 work (including dependents) made up 54.6% of immigration once education is excluded. the spreadsheet is linked below figure 5. so just an incredibly transparent and evidenced way of having a conversation. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 14:45 - Aug 20 with 1203 views | jayessess |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 14:41 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
the same link also provides data on immigration (as opposed to net migration) by reason. in the year to june 2023 work (including dependents) made up 54.6% of immigration once education is excluded. the spreadsheet is linked below figure 5. so just an incredibly transparent and evidenced way of having a conversation. |
What percentage of *visas*, is it? You know, the thing we were actually discussing.
You know, the thing you brought up!
As I said earlier, this is how it goes with these discussions, just the casual way people elide different facets of migration. [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 14:47]
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 15:05 - Aug 20 with 1149 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 14:45 - Aug 20 by jayessess |
What percentage of *visas*, is it? You know, the thing we were actually discussing.
You know, the thing you brought up!
As I said earlier, this is how it goes with these discussions, just the casual way people elide different facets of migration. [Post edited 20 Aug 2024 14:47]
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in 2023 excluding education and short term visitors 78% of visas were for workers approx half of which were for dependents of workers. i've posted the equivalent percent for immigration and net migration.
if you read the thread you'll see that almost all of my posts have discussed net migration. my first and, until you came back on it, only reference to visas was in a post at 12.13.
you haven't responded to health and care being only quite a small fraction of those coming to work? you haven't responded to your claim that "there isn't and hasn't been an absolute shortage of domiciles" being shown up as nonsense.
generally when people start throwing around accusations about how others discuss stuff it's because they want to distract from what's been shown. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 17:57 - Aug 20 with 1054 views | DJR |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 15:05 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
in 2023 excluding education and short term visitors 78% of visas were for workers approx half of which were for dependents of workers. i've posted the equivalent percent for immigration and net migration.
if you read the thread you'll see that almost all of my posts have discussed net migration. my first and, until you came back on it, only reference to visas was in a post at 12.13.
you haven't responded to health and care being only quite a small fraction of those coming to work? you haven't responded to your claim that "there isn't and hasn't been an absolute shortage of domiciles" being shown up as nonsense.
generally when people start throwing around accusations about how others discuss stuff it's because they want to distract from what's been shown. |
There's lies, damned lies and statistics but this from a recent Migration Observatory report is interesting.
"The most common reason given by migrants for moving to the UK was family (37%), followed by work (29%) and study (14%) in 2022, the latest year for which data was available."
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-
I have two observations on the housing front.
1. Universities these days have purpose-built and swanky accommodation often designed to appeal to what are presumably pretty wealthy overseas students (given the fees etc.).
2. Family members presumably don't move into separate accommodation from that of the person they are joining or accompanying.
But I am not trying to say that your concerns should be dismissed.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2024 18:03]
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 18:13 - Aug 20 with 1011 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 17:57 - Aug 20 by DJR |
There's lies, damned lies and statistics but this from a recent Migration Observatory report is interesting.
"The most common reason given by migrants for moving to the UK was family (37%), followed by work (29%) and study (14%) in 2022, the latest year for which data was available."
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-
I have two observations on the housing front.
1. Universities these days have purpose-built and swanky accommodation often designed to appeal to what are presumably pretty wealthy overseas students (given the fees etc.).
2. Family members presumably don't move into separate accommodation from that of the person they are joining or accompanying.
But I am not trying to say that your concerns should be dismissed.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2024 18:03]
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yes, universities often have accommodation separate from the main housing market. but as argued above overseas students are not a big element in the rise in net migration because the students arriving are approximately canceled out by the students graduating and leaving. and yes 2 million net migrants do not equate to 2 million extra units of housing - but even allowing for family groupings they do require many many hundreds of thousands of housing units. we have a long recognised housing crisis (not just in terms of high house prices but in terms of availability of rented and first tome buyer properties) - how can that not be made worse? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 18:39 - Aug 20 with 967 views | eireblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 18:13 - Aug 20 by lowhouseblue |
yes, universities often have accommodation separate from the main housing market. but as argued above overseas students are not a big element in the rise in net migration because the students arriving are approximately canceled out by the students graduating and leaving. and yes 2 million net migrants do not equate to 2 million extra units of housing - but even allowing for family groupings they do require many many hundreds of thousands of housing units. we have a long recognised housing crisis (not just in terms of high house prices but in terms of availability of rented and first tome buyer properties) - how can that not be made worse? |
One of the stats that seems quite hard to find, is how many office to residential conversions have been done.
A number of buildings where I have worked or had meetings in are now residential flats.
It is quite noticeable.
I wonder if this has helped, alongside many people now working from home, maybe that is accelerating.
Just a local observation. |  | | |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 18:54 - Aug 20 with 938 views | lowhouseblue |
| After the riots, Keir Starmer should tell us the truth about (the) country. on 18:39 - Aug 20 by eireblue |
One of the stats that seems quite hard to find, is how many office to residential conversions have been done.
A number of buildings where I have worked or had meetings in are now residential flats.
It is quite noticeable.
I wonder if this has helped, alongside many people now working from home, maybe that is accelerating.
Just a local observation. |
i found a figure of 21,000 resi units created from offices in london between 2015 and 2022. but there's potential for this to pick up - the last government eased the planning rules and there are more vacant offices. there's a report that says converting currently vacant offices in london could provide 26,000 units. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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