| Business' reaction to NI increase 21:28 - Nov 25 with 3404 views | Zx1988 |
One for the older heads on the forum.
With all the complaining and doom and gloom coming from Big Business about the Employer's NI increase, I recall listening to someone a few months ago (I want to say Mandelson, perhaps) discussing the introduction of National Minimum Wage back in 1999, and the complaints from Business back then.
I recall him talking about the threatened million-plus redundancies which never came to pass, and there seems to be similarities between the messaging now, and what Mandelson was saying happened back in 1999.
I was 11 back then, so don't remember a bit of it.
Those of you who do remember: are there contrasts between then and now? Or does the noise coming from business at the moment seem to have more weight to it than did the scaremongering about NMW? |  |
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| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:00 - Nov 26 with 446 views | bluelagos |
Given we have the opportunity to review our trading relationship with the EU imminently - then I think the point is valid.
Right now, our govt could be renegotiating (and thus reducing the harm) - yet business is saying sfa - instead focusing on the NI rise.
Same with the farmers, speaking about inheritance tax (Which won't effect one farm owner) and silent on Brexit.
That a vote took place 8 years ago - doesn't mean the govt can't and shouldn't revisit the EU trading arrangements made if they recognise they could improve them and thus help UK Plc. |  |
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| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:09 - Nov 26 with 421 views | Blueschev |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:00 - Nov 26 by bluelagos |
Given we have the opportunity to review our trading relationship with the EU imminently - then I think the point is valid.
Right now, our govt could be renegotiating (and thus reducing the harm) - yet business is saying sfa - instead focusing on the NI rise.
Same with the farmers, speaking about inheritance tax (Which won't effect one farm owner) and silent on Brexit.
That a vote took place 8 years ago - doesn't mean the govt can't and shouldn't revisit the EU trading arrangements made if they recognise they could improve them and thus help UK Plc. |
I'm not sure that further fuelling the fire of the far right by trying to reignite the Brexit debate, at a time when they're already getting it with both barrels from the gutter press, would be a particularly wise move from the government at this time. |  | | |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:17 - Nov 26 with 404 views | bluelagos |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:09 - Nov 26 by Blueschev |
I'm not sure that further fuelling the fire of the far right by trying to reignite the Brexit debate, at a time when they're already getting it with both barrels from the gutter press, would be a particularly wise move from the government at this time. |
Politically - Labour are sh1t scared of Brexit and the EU - no argument from me there.
But economically (which is what I would expect businesses and farmers to be focusing on) - it's a no brainer imho.
Oh to have a govt that doesn't pander to populist politics and instead does what is in the interests of the country. But I accept we are a long way from that atm such is the influence of Farage/Johnson and all the other liars who sold us a pup. | |
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| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:41 - Nov 26 with 370 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 16:28 - Nov 26 by bluelagos |
The organisations that represent businesses will be making their case - they always were going to.
The bit that makes me laugh is that Brexit will have done far more damage (5% reduction in GDP means less money in people's pockets - and more hurdles if you want overseas workers to fill gaps - and trade barriers if you are an exporter) than putting 1.5% on the cost of an employee...yet they have been largely silent on that for some reason. |
In the interest of accuracy, Brexit was believed to cause a reduction of GDP growth - not a 5pc reduction of the size of the economy. To me it makes most sense to rejoin the single market , remove a lot of the ‘political’ arguments around the EU. But I suspect there will be little appetite for them to accept us, they’ll be focused now on bigger fish such as cheap Chinese imports and US tariffs. For balance, a decline i real terms pay in the UK was occurring in the years running up to the Brexit vote, so there are also deeper structural issues we need to address. Rejoining in whatever form isn’t going to solve all our problems. I say this as someone who voted remain, and on balance thinks the EU is a good think, but realise it’s not without it’s issues.
One of the other reasons EU growth lags behind the US is that it’s not a homogenous market - in many industries, unless you purchase a local brand it’s virtually impossible to gain any traction, French consumers and businesses prefer to deal with other French organisations. Same with Italy and others. Appreciate that’s not the case in all industries, but for many there are invisible barriers to entry. | | | |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:58 - Nov 26 with 353 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:17 - Nov 26 by bluelagos |
Politically - Labour are sh1t scared of Brexit and the EU - no argument from me there.
But economically (which is what I would expect businesses and farmers to be focusing on) - it's a no brainer imho.
Oh to have a govt that doesn't pander to populist politics and instead does what is in the interests of the country. But I accept we are a long way from that atm such is the influence of Farage/Johnson and all the other liars who sold us a pup. |
100%
It’s about time people were adults about it. You can’t whinge like a baby about a possible 0.25% on growth in two years after you’ve supported the Brexit sh*tshow that’s had at least an order of magnitude larger negative impact every single year. I can’t take anyone seriously who does that. By far the best way to increase the value of goods and services would be to have as close to possible frictionless trade with the largest market on our doorstep. |  |
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| Business' reaction to NI increase on 19:17 - Nov 26 with 332 views | bluelagos |
| Business' reaction to NI increase on 18:41 - Nov 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
In the interest of accuracy, Brexit was believed to cause a reduction of GDP growth - not a 5pc reduction of the size of the economy. To me it makes most sense to rejoin the single market , remove a lot of the ‘political’ arguments around the EU. But I suspect there will be little appetite for them to accept us, they’ll be focused now on bigger fish such as cheap Chinese imports and US tariffs. For balance, a decline i real terms pay in the UK was occurring in the years running up to the Brexit vote, so there are also deeper structural issues we need to address. Rejoining in whatever form isn’t going to solve all our problems. I say this as someone who voted remain, and on balance thinks the EU is a good think, but realise it’s not without it’s issues.
One of the other reasons EU growth lags behind the US is that it’s not a homogenous market - in many industries, unless you purchase a local brand it’s virtually impossible to gain any traction, French consumers and businesses prefer to deal with other French organisations. Same with Italy and others. Appreciate that’s not the case in all industries, but for many there are invisible barriers to entry. |
Ref yer first point - think you are properly splitting hairs.
If GDP growth is 5% lower (than otherwise) due to brexit - then instead of saying going from 100 to 110 it is now only 105. (Which is 4.7% smaller than it would have been.
So the economy is absolutely smaller than would be the case had we not brexited, albeit it hasn't actually shrunk.
Yer others points all make sense.
Anyhow - we ain't gonna change UK economic policy on here so all a bit of a pointless debate - about as likely as someone offering us £100m for Delap in January tbh. | |
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