By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
The world feels in an inevitable spiral atm and there seems to be nobody with a platform prepared to speak out in fear of the backlash and damaging their own brand. I can see now why past atrocities occurred with people just willing to ignore what doesn't immediately affect them or just outright deny what's really happening. It seems human nature to turn a blind eye then preach in hindsight.
10
Where have all the good people gone? on 19:27 - Jan 27 with 1443 views
The western world is in a fairly dreadful state fuelled by a significant change in the way people consume information, which leads to ridiculous, polarised views on pretty much everything. It is presumably in the interests of the likes of Russia and China to encourage all of this and see lots of core values fall apart.
It is now impossible to have a sensible debate on something, and we’re seeing incredible things on all sides of the political spectrum which I think is simply fuelling fire. Trump’s first few days as an example, but equally some of the decision making related to reporting of the Southport stuff was laughable. I’m not clever enough, nor do I have the time, to fully understand so much of what’s going on but we need to go back to basics, focus on facts and have good debates about things like immigration to reduce polarisation. Not everybody who voted Brexit is a far right loon, and not everybody who protests against Brexit etc is an ideological without a job - most of us sit in the middle somewhere and can sensibly debate and resolve issues that are ultimately going to impact the lives of our children.
8
Where have all the good people gone? on 20:36 - Jan 27 with 1364 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 19:45 - Jan 27 by PrideOfTheEast
The western world is in a fairly dreadful state fuelled by a significant change in the way people consume information, which leads to ridiculous, polarised views on pretty much everything. It is presumably in the interests of the likes of Russia and China to encourage all of this and see lots of core values fall apart.
It is now impossible to have a sensible debate on something, and we’re seeing incredible things on all sides of the political spectrum which I think is simply fuelling fire. Trump’s first few days as an example, but equally some of the decision making related to reporting of the Southport stuff was laughable. I’m not clever enough, nor do I have the time, to fully understand so much of what’s going on but we need to go back to basics, focus on facts and have good debates about things like immigration to reduce polarisation. Not everybody who voted Brexit is a far right loon, and not everybody who protests against Brexit etc is an ideological without a job - most of us sit in the middle somewhere and can sensibly debate and resolve issues that are ultimately going to impact the lives of our children.
What an absolutely brilliant post and great fuel for a debate of the points you mention.
I agree with everything bar your comment on China and Russia. I really don't believe those countries have access to our media in the breadth and depth necessary to mould our culture in a way that causes our core values to fall apart. In fact, even if they could define our core values, I'm not sure they are particularly at odds with relatively peaceful co-existence with China and Russia any way. Breaking our society would, I think, be more of a concern for them. That's why I think it's far more likely that we are seeing a breakdown of our society - whether intentional or not - from within, and it's being blamed on our enemies because that's what all civilizations and other power structures have done when they collapse.
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 22:29 - Jan 27 with 1296 views
This is no time to ignore warnings This is no time to clear the plate Let's not be sorry after the fact And let the past become out fate There is no time There is no time There is no time There is no time
[Post edited 27 Jan 22:33]
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 08:54 - Jan 28 with 1142 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 22:22 - Jan 27 by Cafe_Newman
What an absolutely brilliant post and great fuel for a debate of the points you mention.
I agree with everything bar your comment on China and Russia. I really don't believe those countries have access to our media in the breadth and depth necessary to mould our culture in a way that causes our core values to fall apart. In fact, even if they could define our core values, I'm not sure they are particularly at odds with relatively peaceful co-existence with China and Russia any way. Breaking our society would, I think, be more of a concern for them. That's why I think it's far more likely that we are seeing a breakdown of our society - whether intentional or not - from within, and it's being blamed on our enemies because that's what all civilizations and other power structures have done when they collapse.
But it’s also dangerously naive to dismiss external parties as a factor. Russian involvement (promoting fake news) helped stir the riots that followed the Southport murders. They were also involved in pushing Brexit as they’d love nothing more than see the collapse and infighting of western society. Daily they attack our infrastructure (both virtual and physical) even pre-Ukraine. In Eastern Europe Putin has even weaponised migration as a way of politically dividing Europe.
China attempted to infiltrate parliament, infiltrate student groups, and spy on their citizens in the UK. For both Russia and China, social issues in the Uk and West are the perfect distraction to pursue their geopolitical goals. It would be unfair to dismiss internal issues as well, but if we doing recognise external threats we aren’t going to be able to tackle them (it was that kind of West bad/everyone else is misrepresented, thinking after Crimea that emboldened Putin to launch his invasion of Ukraine).
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 10:08 - Jan 28 with 1092 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 22:22 - Jan 27 by Cafe_Newman
What an absolutely brilliant post and great fuel for a debate of the points you mention.
I agree with everything bar your comment on China and Russia. I really don't believe those countries have access to our media in the breadth and depth necessary to mould our culture in a way that causes our core values to fall apart. In fact, even if they could define our core values, I'm not sure they are particularly at odds with relatively peaceful co-existence with China and Russia any way. Breaking our society would, I think, be more of a concern for them. That's why I think it's far more likely that we are seeing a breakdown of our society - whether intentional or not - from within, and it's being blamed on our enemies because that's what all civilizations and other power structures have done when they collapse.
Obviously, Russia will engage in this type of thing but I think Brexit was down to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings and the right wing media (including 30 years of disinformation about the EU), as well as concerns about immigration and refugees, and the effects of the global financial crash and austerity. There was also a fair degree of harking back to a Britain which no longer exists.
Where have all the good people gone? on 10:55 - Jan 28 by DJR
Obviously, Russia will engage in this type of thing but I think Brexit was down to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings and the right wing media (including 30 years of disinformation about the EU), as well as concerns about immigration and refugees, and the effects of the global financial crash and austerity. There was also a fair degree of harking back to a Britain which no longer exists.
[Post edited 28 Jan 11:02]
Johnson and Cummings both have strong Russia links, of course! I was just making the point about Russian influence. There were plenty of factors in Brexit, as you say, but Russia was keen to fan the flames as much as it could.
2
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:04 - Jan 28 with 892 views
So, in summary: more than 400 fake Twitter accounts believed to be run from St Petersburg tweeted about Brexit a total of 3,468 times – 78% of which were posted after the referendum had taken place.
3,468 tweets in the space of about 3 years in the whole of the "twitterverse" is not even a drop in the ocean.
Who honestly is swayed by what they read on Twitter anyway?
Prof Laura Cram, director of neuropolitics research at the University of Edinburgh, stressed that more research is needed to establish the extent of the tweets’ influence, and urged caution about drawing conclusions from the relatively small number of troll accounts so far identified. She also said that there’s not an absolutely clear thrust to the purpose of the tweets and that the content was “quite chaotic and it seems to be aimed at wider disruption.”
Another sited Twitter account quoted Nigel Farage (not a Russian) telling Fox News about Brexit and Donald Trump: “What you’ve seen this year is just ordinary, decent people, the little people, who’ve said ‘We’ve had enough. We want change.’”
Damian Collins, the chairman of the Commons culture, media and sport select committee, which is investigating fake news, said the Russian agency appeared to be attempting to divide society and destabilise politics.
Collins has demanded that Twitter’s chief executive, Jack Dorsey (not a Russian), supply examples of posts from the Internet Research Agency about British politics – citing concern at possible “interference by foreign actors in the democratic process” of the UK.
A non-Russian spokesperson for Twitter said the company “recognises that the integrity of the election process itself is integral to the health of a democracy. As such, we will continue to support formal investigations by government authorities into election interference as required.”
Yet Twitter (not a Russian company) did nothing about it.
I'll probably get stacks for "defending Russia", but that Guardian article is a little desperate. Any article which uses a Twitter account holder retweeting Nigel Farage statements as evidence of Russian interference is proof that the journalist is struggling to find real evidence for his claims of Russian attempts to bring down our society.
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:13 - Jan 28 with 865 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 11:47 - Jan 28 by PhilTWTD
Johnson and Cummings both have strong Russia links, of course! I was just making the point about Russian influence. There were plenty of factors in Brexit, as you say, but Russia was keen to fan the flames as much as it could.
The article you linked about 419 Russian trolls posing an average of 8.3 tweets each over the period of Brexit and its immediate aftermath (78% of the tweets) is not exactly Russia fanning the flames as much as it could. Is it?
Is it Russia's fault that Johnson and Cummings have strong Russia links or our own establishment for putting these fools into positions of great influence in our country?
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:15 - Jan 28 with 856 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:04 - Jan 28 by Cafe_Newman
So, in summary: more than 400 fake Twitter accounts believed to be run from St Petersburg tweeted about Brexit a total of 3,468 times – 78% of which were posted after the referendum had taken place.
3,468 tweets in the space of about 3 years in the whole of the "twitterverse" is not even a drop in the ocean.
Who honestly is swayed by what they read on Twitter anyway?
Prof Laura Cram, director of neuropolitics research at the University of Edinburgh, stressed that more research is needed to establish the extent of the tweets’ influence, and urged caution about drawing conclusions from the relatively small number of troll accounts so far identified. She also said that there’s not an absolutely clear thrust to the purpose of the tweets and that the content was “quite chaotic and it seems to be aimed at wider disruption.”
Another sited Twitter account quoted Nigel Farage (not a Russian) telling Fox News about Brexit and Donald Trump: “What you’ve seen this year is just ordinary, decent people, the little people, who’ve said ‘We’ve had enough. We want change.’”
Damian Collins, the chairman of the Commons culture, media and sport select committee, which is investigating fake news, said the Russian agency appeared to be attempting to divide society and destabilise politics.
Collins has demanded that Twitter’s chief executive, Jack Dorsey (not a Russian), supply examples of posts from the Internet Research Agency about British politics – citing concern at possible “interference by foreign actors in the democratic process” of the UK.
A non-Russian spokesperson for Twitter said the company “recognises that the integrity of the election process itself is integral to the health of a democracy. As such, we will continue to support formal investigations by government authorities into election interference as required.”
Yet Twitter (not a Russian company) did nothing about it.
I'll probably get stacks for "defending Russia", but that Guardian article is a little desperate. Any article which uses a Twitter account holder retweeting Nigel Farage statements as evidence of Russian interference is proof that the journalist is struggling to find real evidence for his claims of Russian attempts to bring down our society.
I think all countries make efforts to destabilise their enemies all the time.
The British are recognised as being among the global experts in wielding soft power, the Russians on the other hand are well-known for being hilariously bad at it.
Always astonishing to see that people will believe the word of the Russian state over our intelligence agencies.
“ According to the Intelligence and Security Committee Russia report, released on 21 July 2020, there is substantial evidence that Russian interference in the British economy and politics is commonplace; further to this, evidence was uncovered detailing interference in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum aimed at promoting Scottish independence in an attempt to divide and conquer the UK.[1][2][3][4][5] The report described the UK as one of Russia's "top targets" as it was "seen as central to the Western anti-Russian lobby"”
They lied about the Salisbury poisonings, denied shooting down a commercial airliner (quite probably two now). We see donations from oligarchs in a bid to influence government policy. Daily cyber attacks on our commerce and public institutions, sabotage of western energy infrastructure. Fortunately the people of Chorley won’t be fooled into thinking Russia bears ill will against the west.
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:32 - Jan 28 with 805 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:27 - Jan 28 by Cafe_Newman
I think all countries make efforts to destabilise their enemies all the time.
The British are recognised as being among the global experts in wielding soft power, the Russians on the other hand are well-known for being hilariously bad at it.
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:32 - Jan 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna
I think you need to look up what soft power means mate.
Perhaps the examples I have given are not the best for demonstrating soft power - but whatever the twitter trolls did during Brexit was hugely ineffective in my opinion and largely inconclusive in the opinion of the University of Edinburgh academic responsible for the study.
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:58 - Jan 28 with 729 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 15:13 - Jan 28 by Cafe_Newman
The article you linked about 419 Russian trolls posing an average of 8.3 tweets each over the period of Brexit and its immediate aftermath (78% of the tweets) is not exactly Russia fanning the flames as much as it could. Is it?
Is it Russia's fault that Johnson and Cummings have strong Russia links or our own establishment for putting these fools into positions of great influence in our country?
There are strong suspicions the fanning went much further than that, of course, with how some campaigns were funded somewhat mysterious.
0
Where have all the good people gone? on 17:40 - Jan 28 with 635 views
Where have all the good people gone? on 11:47 - Jan 28 by PhilTWTD
Johnson and Cummings both have strong Russia links, of course! I was just making the point about Russian influence. There were plenty of factors in Brexit, as you say, but Russia was keen to fan the flames as much as it could.
I suppose my issue with blaming Russia for Brexit is that it appears to be a bit of a cop out.
Russia was clearly up to no good but my feeling is that its influence was limited, and it is much more useful and constructive to try to figure out why Remain got things wrong.
And even if it were possible to eliminate Russian influence more generally (which would be a good thing), there are enough bad actors in the West for it not to make a ha'penny worth's difference.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
