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The story is completely irrelevant to the concept of ID cards (which the US does not have). Musk is apparently getting access to the type of data the UK government holds for national insurance, the NHS or paying staff or contractors it uses. Are you suggesting governments should not have this kind of data?
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 18:52 - Feb 2 with 2553 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 18:44 - Feb 2 by Clapham_Junction
The story is completely irrelevant to the concept of ID cards (which the US does not have). Musk is apparently getting access to the type of data the UK government holds for national insurance, the NHS or paying staff or contractors it uses. Are you suggesting governments should not have this kind of data?
I'm suggesting that you never know what the future holds. Politics is rapidly heading to the right and inviting corporations into its midst. If you are happy to allow the state to have access to your every detail then you better be comfortable with where that state is heading.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 18:52 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave
I'm suggesting that you never know what the future holds. Politics is rapidly heading to the right and inviting corporations into its midst. If you are happy to allow the state to have access to your every detail then you better be comfortable with where that state is heading.
Away from this board please tell me you're not this boring . You rarely talk about ITFC. I reckon this is you .
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 19:04 - Feb 2 with 2505 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 18:52 - Feb 2 by BanksterDebtSlave
I'm suggesting that you never know what the future holds. Politics is rapidly heading to the right and inviting corporations into its midst. If you are happy to allow the state to have access to your every detail then you better be comfortable with where that state is heading.
The state cannot function without this kind of detail that is discussed in the article.
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 20:44 - Feb 2 with 2303 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 18:44 - Feb 2 by Clapham_Junction
The story is completely irrelevant to the concept of ID cards (which the US does not have). Musk is apparently getting access to the type of data the UK government holds for national insurance, the NHS or paying staff or contractors it uses. Are you suggesting governments should not have this kind of data?
And apparently needs the specific approval of congress/senate (can’t remember which, but probably Senate) to do so, but of course they’re subverting normal processes again.
I think an ID card would be a lot better than what we have: multiple cards, a passport, personal numbers for different uses. It couldn’t be more complicated if they tried. Logically I’d expect 1 source of information to be more secure. Unless the government decides to give our data to a Nazi of course, but that could happen irrespective of how they’re holding our data.
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 20:56 - Feb 2 by Swansea_Blue
I think an ID card would be a lot better than what we have: multiple cards, a passport, personal numbers for different uses. It couldn’t be more complicated if they tried. Logically I’d expect 1 source of information to be more secure. Unless the government decides to give our data to a Nazi of course, but that could happen irrespective of how they’re holding our data.
Yes, I've never had an issue with ID cards. Indeed, young people have to carry a police approved equivalent.
And in this day and age it is companies that probably know much more about many people's lives than the government. They can even track our location.
It's Corporate Big Brother, and people seem to lap it up.
[Post edited 2 Feb 21:27]
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 00:38 - Feb 3 with 1984 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 19:04 - Feb 2 by Clapham_Junction
The state cannot function without this kind of detail that is discussed in the article.
You do realise that my point is an extrapolation from where corporate access to state information could lead? And that is without considering whether or not the state itself becomes a malign actor.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 21:21 - Feb 2 by DJR
Yes, I've never had an issue with ID cards. Indeed, young people have to carry a police approved equivalent.
And in this day and age it is companies that probably know much more about many people's lives than the government. They can even track our location.
It's Corporate Big Brother, and people seem to lap it up.
[Post edited 2 Feb 21:27]
There are extensive protections though under GDPR - much stricter than you find in the US. I wonder how many people up in arms is Chinese firms such as TikTok who completely ignore these laws. Luckily said poster didn’t vote for Brexit which was always intended to be a bonfire of such protective legislation.
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 08:08 - Feb 3 with 1777 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 07:36 - Feb 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna
There are extensive protections though under GDPR - much stricter than you find in the US. I wonder how many people up in arms is Chinese firms such as TikTok who completely ignore these laws. Luckily said poster didn’t vote for Brexit which was always intended to be a bonfire of such protective legislation.
Lol, next you'll be telling us that Facebook and the likes don't listen to us without our consent.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 08:08 - Feb 3 by BanksterDebtSlave
Lol, next you'll be telling us that Facebook and the likes don't listen to us without our consent.
They have probably done this which is why the laws exist. The successful class action against Apple for Siri eavesdropping for example. Good luck bringing action against China.
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 09:22 - Feb 3 with 1659 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 08:13 - Feb 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna
They have probably done this which is why the laws exist. The successful class action against Apple for Siri eavesdropping for example. Good luck bringing action against China.
I don't think the UK can afford to be too complacent in this regard.
As long ago as 2007, when the UK was ranked alongside Russia and China as an endemic surveillance society, the Information Commissioner was warning against growing state and commercial intrusion into people's lives.
Thomas said that while some forms of surveillance could help combat crime and terrorism, others risked undermining trust and fostering a climate of suspicion. He voiced concern about commercial as well as government intrusion.
"Every time we use a mobile phone, use our credit cards, go online to search on the Internet, go electronic shopping, drive our cars, more and more information is being collected," he told the BBC. "Humans must dictate our future, not machines."
[Post edited 3 Feb 9:28]
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 09:58 - Feb 3 with 1558 views
So you're worried about what info your own government holds on you, but not? Concerned what information business hold on you, that they lose, sell to other companies and what information is on you freely available on the great web/net and the dark side of it.
Think what device you used to post this article and what that device has on it to enable you to post said article.
Then think how much of those key strokes, and words used, think how many times you log onto TWTD or anywhere and you have to reject/unaccept allowing companies to use the data collected.
Google knows more about you than you do about yourself.
I know who I would rather know about me and it is not Microsoft, Google, meta, X, and whoever.
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 10:56 - Feb 3 with 1485 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 09:22 - Feb 3 by DJR
I don't think the UK can afford to be too complacent in this regard.
As long ago as 2007, when the UK was ranked alongside Russia and China as an endemic surveillance society, the Information Commissioner was warning against growing state and commercial intrusion into people's lives.
Thomas said that while some forms of surveillance could help combat crime and terrorism, others risked undermining trust and fostering a climate of suspicion. He voiced concern about commercial as well as government intrusion.
"Every time we use a mobile phone, use our credit cards, go online to search on the Internet, go electronic shopping, drive our cars, more and more information is being collected," he told the BBC. "Humans must dictate our future, not machines."
[Post edited 3 Feb 9:28]
Yeah so the commercial world has to follow the laws or face consequences. Most regulated firms have strict controls over how much data is collected, and when it needs to be deleted- the fines can be extremely punitive. Not so the state, which always makes me wonder why people want to give the state more control of our lives. Leaving the EU takes away a layer of protection, which was always the aim.
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 11:48 - Feb 3 with 1414 views
I'm with you on this. It is alarming and pretty soon I expect all our personal NHS data to be heading in the same direction. However, it seems that the good folk of TWTD don't share our concerns. I find this equally alarming.
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 12:08 - Feb 3 with 1373 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 10:56 - Feb 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna
Yeah so the commercial world has to follow the laws or face consequences. Most regulated firms have strict controls over how much data is collected, and when it needs to be deleted- the fines can be extremely punitive. Not so the state, which always makes me wonder why people want to give the state more control of our lives. Leaving the EU takes away a layer of protection, which was always the aim.
No doubt the algorithms that Twitter and Facebook use are data compliant but I personally don't like the manipulation they involve.
And I didn't vote for Brexit, but the right to privacy (as well as other provisions) enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights (there is no mention of privacy in the US constitution) in my view severely limits what can be done to unpick the GDPR.
Indeed, the explanatory notes to the Data Protection (Fundamental Rights and Freedoms) (Amendment) Regulations 2023 contain this explanation of the instrument-
2.1 The UK General Data Protection Regulation (UK GDPR) and Data Protection Act 2018 (DPA 2018) contain a number of provisions requiring the Government, the Information Commissioner and data controllers to take account of individuals’ “fundamental rights and freedoms”.
2.2 “Fundamental rights and freedoms” are currently defined in this legislation as retained EU rights, which will be repealed at the end of 2023 by the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Act 2023. In order to ensure relevant rights and freedoms are still taken into account after the end of this year, this instrument amends the definition of “fundamental rights and freedoms” to refer to an alternative source of fundamental rights and freedoms, namely those under the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), which have been enshrined in the UK’s domestic law under the Human Rights Act 1998. This will provide certainty for organisations which are subject to data protection legislation and will establish a clear set of fundamental rights and freedoms to refer to.
EDIT: the contrast between the US and Europe is notable because the US doesn't have an overriding framework like the ECHR to operate on a constitution much of which is pretty dated.
EDIT 2: interesting article considering an ECHR case on the right to life following a Finish shooting in the context of the US and the right to bear arms. It makes me think that the ECHR would seek to limit an absolute right to bear arms in the national law of a state signatory which had no controls.
EDIT 3: it always made me chuckle during Brexit to hear people (including politicians) railing against the ECHR and thinking (or misleadingly suggesting) that leaving the EU would involve leaving the ECHR.
EDIT 4: the following, just reported, strikes me as something that would probably be struck down by the ECHR..
Donald Trump may as soon as today make good on his campaign promise to use an obscure 18th-century law to make it easier to deport undocumented immigrants, Reuters reports.
After being sworn in, the president gave federal agencies until 3 February to prepare to invoke the 1798 Alien Enemies Act, a law that will allow migrants suspected of illegal activity to be deported without the court hearing that typically must occur first. Use of the law, which has been used to justify the second world war internments of Americans of Japanese descent, is expected to face legal challenges.
[Post edited 3 Feb 14:56]
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Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 15:24 - Feb 3 with 1228 views
Still think ID cards and government surveillance is ok? on 00:43 - Feb 3 by BanksterDebtSlave
You do realise that my point is an extrapolation from where corporate access to state information could lead? And that is without considering whether or not the state itself becomes a malign actor.
Then why bring ID cards into it? The government already has all the data (and much more) than would be in ID cards, so if it is allowing private companies access to this data behind the scenes, ID cards are completely irrelevant to the discussion.
The government needs to hold data on citizens. The issue here is the involvement of the private sector, not ID cards or 'surveillance'.
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