| This is very sad on 10:46 - Feb 10 with 2554 views | baxterbasics |
Ugh.
I briefly watched the live footage on BBC as he was being escorted out and the commentator said at the time there was concern that he might not be aware his family had been killed. This confirms he did not. Burned alive in their home. Even shot the dog. Awful.
Also compare the 'before' and 'after' pics of Eli there. During the broadcast they also had some Hamas apologist slime getting air time insisting all hostages had been well fed and watered and given healthcare etcetera. Well fortunately we all have eyes. |  |
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| This is very sad on 11:00 - Feb 10 with 2468 views | Zx1988 |
| This is very sad on 10:46 - Feb 10 by baxterbasics |
Ugh.
I briefly watched the live footage on BBC as he was being escorted out and the commentator said at the time there was concern that he might not be aware his family had been killed. This confirms he did not. Burned alive in their home. Even shot the dog. Awful.
Also compare the 'before' and 'after' pics of Eli there. During the broadcast they also had some Hamas apologist slime getting air time insisting all hostages had been well fed and watered and given healthcare etcetera. Well fortunately we all have eyes. |
On treatment (of both sides) I suppose we'll never know the whole truth.
I've not followed things too closely, but the release of the chap on Saturday seems to be the first/only one so far where concerns have been raised about his physical condition, and other released hostages appeared (superficially, at least) to be in good health.
Was he poorly-fed/treated? Or was there an element of non-compliance or refusing to eat? I don't know either way, but both are possible.
The BBC coverage on Saturday evening seemed intent on pushing a certain narrative, however, and gave zero air time to released Palestinian prisoners/hostages. Even though claims have been made concerning released Palestinians being beaten/tortured in advance of their release:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/palestinian-detainees-endure-systematic-tortu |  |
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| This is very sad on 11:23 - Feb 10 with 2369 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| This is very sad on 11:00 - Feb 10 by Zx1988 |
On treatment (of both sides) I suppose we'll never know the whole truth.
I've not followed things too closely, but the release of the chap on Saturday seems to be the first/only one so far where concerns have been raised about his physical condition, and other released hostages appeared (superficially, at least) to be in good health.
Was he poorly-fed/treated? Or was there an element of non-compliance or refusing to eat? I don't know either way, but both are possible.
The BBC coverage on Saturday evening seemed intent on pushing a certain narrative, however, and gave zero air time to released Palestinian prisoners/hostages. Even though claims have been made concerning released Palestinians being beaten/tortured in advance of their release:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/palestinian-detainees-endure-systematic-tortu |
They aren’t the first claims of mistreatment of Israeli hostages, where have you got that idea-
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/04/un-envoy-reports-on-accounts-of-ha
Previous hostages freed by the IDF have made similar claims. Given the UN documented the rape and mutilation of Isreali’s who were not taken by Hamas you’d not hold out much hope for the treatment of those snatched. Indeed Hamas are of course equally happy to torture Palestinian opposition. None of which diminishes the treatment of Israel’s captives, I was just somewhat surprised to see the suggestion this was the first claims of Israeli captives being mistreated when it’s been wider reported for months. | | | |
| This is very sad on 11:38 - Feb 10 with 2318 views | DJR |
I wasn't really trying to make a political point with my post, only looking at it in human terms and thinking that the prospect of seeing his family presumably kept his spirits alive during very difficult times, only for those hopes to be completely dashed at the end. [Post edited 10 Feb 12:49]
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| This is very sad on 12:23 - Feb 10 with 2228 views | Blueschev |
It's a really harrowing story. I'm not sure how I'd go on if that was me.
I really wish that this senseless conflict would come to an end. Sadly I can't see it happening in my lifetime. |  | | |
| This is very sad on 12:45 - Feb 10 with 2169 views | leitrimblue |
It really doesn't bare thinking about. The anticipation and happiness on release, and then that news. Must be hard to carry on.
Ceasefire shoulda been 12 months earlier.. |  | | |
| This is very sad on 15:12 - Feb 10 with 1978 views | Blueschev |
| This is very sad on 12:45 - Feb 10 by leitrimblue |
It really doesn't bare thinking about. The anticipation and happiness on release, and then that news. Must be hard to carry on.
Ceasefire shoulda been 12 months earlier.. |
It should have, the same deal had been on the table for months but was only agreed upon once Gaza was made essentially unliveable. I'd be amazed if hostilities don't resume within the next few days before spreading to the West Bank. It's a tragedy for the Palestinians, but also for the citizens of Israel who will blamed and despised for the barbaric actions of their political class. | | | |
| This is very sad on 15:28 - Feb 10 with 1926 views | Zx1988 |
| This is very sad on 15:12 - Feb 10 by Blueschev |
It should have, the same deal had been on the table for months but was only agreed upon once Gaza was made essentially unliveable. I'd be amazed if hostilities don't resume within the next few days before spreading to the West Bank. It's a tragedy for the Palestinians, but also for the citizens of Israel who will blamed and despised for the barbaric actions of their political class. |
That's the problem - there seems to be precious little in terms of an 'end game' for the Palestinians, once the Israeli hostages have been released.
Once the hostages have been returned, what remaining incentive is there for Netenyoohoo not to resume turning the remainder of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to rubble? | |
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| This is very sad on 15:37 - Feb 10 with 1904 views | leitrimblue |
| This is very sad on 15:12 - Feb 10 by Blueschev |
It should have, the same deal had been on the table for months but was only agreed upon once Gaza was made essentially unliveable. I'd be amazed if hostilities don't resume within the next few days before spreading to the West Bank. It's a tragedy for the Palestinians, but also for the citizens of Israel who will blamed and despised for the barbaric actions of their political class. |
Exactly, there's no winners here except possibly Netanyahu, who appears to be avoiding his court case and any charges of genocide so far.
Now he appears smiling next to Trump as the orange one announces his ethnic cleansing plans.
A man saved by God and the leader of God's own people 'who have a biblical right to the entire West Bank'. What could possibly go wrong? | | | |
| This is very sad on 16:03 - Feb 10 with 1830 views | Blueschev |
| This is very sad on 15:28 - Feb 10 by Zx1988 |
That's the problem - there seems to be precious little in terms of an 'end game' for the Palestinians, once the Israeli hostages have been released.
Once the hostages have been returned, what remaining incentive is there for Netenyoohoo not to resume turning the remainder of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to rubble? |
Since 1948 the Palestinians have had nothing to bargain with. What incentive do the Israeli's have to compromise? They already control all of the land and resources, they also have the most powerful military in the region whereas the Palestinians are forbidden from even having a military. Israel's closest ally is the greatest military power the world has ever known, the Palestinians have the support of Iran, who only really support them to weaken their regional rival.
If you're a Palestinian the future looks beyond bleak. | | | |
| This is very sad on 16:11 - Feb 10 with 1799 views | DJR |
| This is very sad on 15:28 - Feb 10 by Zx1988 |
That's the problem - there seems to be precious little in terms of an 'end game' for the Palestinians, once the Israeli hostages have been released.
Once the hostages have been returned, what remaining incentive is there for Netenyoohoo not to resume turning the remainder of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to rubble? |
It has just been reported that Hamas has halted future hostage releases until further notice.
Not sure the reason, but Trump's intervention can't have helped. | | | |
| This is very sad on 16:17 - Feb 10 with 1750 views | Swansea_Blue |
Heartbreakingly sad |  |
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| This is very sad on 16:21 - Feb 10 with 1709 views | Blueschev |
| This is very sad on 16:11 - Feb 10 by DJR |
It has just been reported that Hamas has halted future hostage releases until further notice.
Not sure the reason, but Trump's intervention can't have helped. |
The tragedy for the hostages and their families is that they are the only bargaining chip that Hamas hold. It's quite clear what the future holds for Gaza once the final hostages are finally freed. | | | |
| This is very sad on 08:56 - Feb 11 with 1468 views | Crawfordsboot |
| This is very sad on 10:46 - Feb 10 by baxterbasics |
Ugh.
I briefly watched the live footage on BBC as he was being escorted out and the commentator said at the time there was concern that he might not be aware his family had been killed. This confirms he did not. Burned alive in their home. Even shot the dog. Awful.
Also compare the 'before' and 'after' pics of Eli there. During the broadcast they also had some Hamas apologist slime getting air time insisting all hostages had been well fed and watered and given healthcare etcetera. Well fortunately we all have eyes. |
Yes indeed fortunately we all have eyes.
We all saw the thousands of bombed civilians, many of them children, who have been left homeless and then denied food aid by Israel. They adopted a deliberate policy of trying to starve them into surrender. Unfortunately too many of the news reports fail to mention this when they refer to the release of gaunt looking hostages! |  | | |
| This is very sad on 10:04 - Feb 11 with 1361 views | Churchman |
| This is very sad on 16:21 - Feb 10 by Blueschev |
The tragedy for the hostages and their families is that they are the only bargaining chip that Hamas hold. It's quite clear what the future holds for Gaza once the final hostages are finally freed. |
I struggle to see human beings as a ‘bargaining chip’. Reducing people to that implies that murdering 1200 people and taking 251 hostages is a legitimate act. Was it justified? No. It’s wrong at every level. Just as the level and way Israel responded and its reasons behind it are wrong.
Palestinians claim 45k have been killed there and Israel claim 1700 killed by Hamas. Hamas now blame Israel for non release of hostages they should never have taken in the first place. Bizarre logic.
Unlike many in this country, I am neither anti semitic or anti Palestinian, Persian, Arab or anything else. Nor do I know much (or enough) about the history of the area, its peoples, their values or what they want in this world. Even if my woeful back of a stamp knowledge is better than Trump’s.
What I do know is that there has to be a better way. The countries of the Middle East want Israel wiped off the face of the earth. Israel wants whatever it sees as its historical lands. A two state compromise seemed to me a better solution than an all out Middle East war. And by a two state solution I do not mean turning Gaza into an open prison for 2m people which, for whatever reason, Israel did.
Nor is the solution ceding the land to Israel a solution, which is of course what Trump and Netanyahu want. All this guff about Gaza being wrecked and uninhabitable is just that. A huge country like Germany was utterly wrecked by 1945, but with hard work and American and British support it was soon functioning in a rudimentary way. Gaza is a fraction of the size with a population about 25% of that of London.
Nor is this Riviera theme park owned by US anything but wind. Only knobhead Donald and his swivel eyed friends could come up with that one. No, rebuilding with or without Mickey Mouse is not the issue. It’s about whose land it is and Trumps ‘sales pitch’ cuts no ice with me.
Sadly, I think a nice quick, clean war and/or the Palestinians moved on is what the orange man wants. A shared vision with his crazy mate Benjamin. People to him are ‘bargaining chips’, to BN they are vermin. If that wasn’t the case, Trump wouldn’t have made the statements he has.
When it comes down to it 1000s of people have been killed, maimed, lives destroyed in 2024/25 while Captain orange, the most powerful man in the world, applies his tiny mind to plastic straws. It’s beyond tragic.
Morning rant over. |  | | |
| This is very sad on 10:27 - Feb 11 with 1310 views | Blueschev |
| This is very sad on 10:04 - Feb 11 by Churchman |
I struggle to see human beings as a ‘bargaining chip’. Reducing people to that implies that murdering 1200 people and taking 251 hostages is a legitimate act. Was it justified? No. It’s wrong at every level. Just as the level and way Israel responded and its reasons behind it are wrong.
Palestinians claim 45k have been killed there and Israel claim 1700 killed by Hamas. Hamas now blame Israel for non release of hostages they should never have taken in the first place. Bizarre logic.
Unlike many in this country, I am neither anti semitic or anti Palestinian, Persian, Arab or anything else. Nor do I know much (or enough) about the history of the area, its peoples, their values or what they want in this world. Even if my woeful back of a stamp knowledge is better than Trump’s.
What I do know is that there has to be a better way. The countries of the Middle East want Israel wiped off the face of the earth. Israel wants whatever it sees as its historical lands. A two state compromise seemed to me a better solution than an all out Middle East war. And by a two state solution I do not mean turning Gaza into an open prison for 2m people which, for whatever reason, Israel did.
Nor is the solution ceding the land to Israel a solution, which is of course what Trump and Netanyahu want. All this guff about Gaza being wrecked and uninhabitable is just that. A huge country like Germany was utterly wrecked by 1945, but with hard work and American and British support it was soon functioning in a rudimentary way. Gaza is a fraction of the size with a population about 25% of that of London.
Nor is this Riviera theme park owned by US anything but wind. Only knobhead Donald and his swivel eyed friends could come up with that one. No, rebuilding with or without Mickey Mouse is not the issue. It’s about whose land it is and Trumps ‘sales pitch’ cuts no ice with me.
Sadly, I think a nice quick, clean war and/or the Palestinians moved on is what the orange man wants. A shared vision with his crazy mate Benjamin. People to him are ‘bargaining chips’, to BN they are vermin. If that wasn’t the case, Trump wouldn’t have made the statements he has.
When it comes down to it 1000s of people have been killed, maimed, lives destroyed in 2024/25 while Captain orange, the most powerful man in the world, applies his tiny mind to plastic straws. It’s beyond tragic.
Morning rant over. |
To clarify, I wasn't justifying the use of human beings as bargaining chips, just that that is the tragic reality of the situation. With the hostages returned, what is there to stop Israel / the US permanently annexing Gaza? | | | |
| This is very sad on 10:35 - Feb 11 with 1280 views | Churchman |
| This is very sad on 10:27 - Feb 11 by Blueschev |
To clarify, I wasn't justifying the use of human beings as bargaining chips, just that that is the tragic reality of the situation. With the hostages returned, what is there to stop Israel / the US permanently annexing Gaza? |
Fair enough. What is to stop Israel annexing Gaza? A question to which I’ve no answer sadly. The states surrounding Israel, even those less hostile to Israel in Jordan and Egypt, will never support that. By Trump threatening them (the only mechanism he understands), I believe he’s making a fundamental mistake. So what has hostage taking achieved beyond the deaths of 1000s? Not a lot.
More questions than solutions, I’m afraid. | | | |
| This is very sad on 10:41 - Feb 11 with 1267 views | Blueschev |
| This is very sad on 10:35 - Feb 11 by Churchman |
Fair enough. What is to stop Israel annexing Gaza? A question to which I’ve no answer sadly. The states surrounding Israel, even those less hostile to Israel in Jordan and Egypt, will never support that. By Trump threatening them (the only mechanism he understands), I believe he’s making a fundamental mistake. So what has hostage taking achieved beyond the deaths of 1000s? Not a lot.
More questions than solutions, I’m afraid. |
No state other than the US and Israel would support it, but what are those opposed going to do about it? Declare war on the US? That would be suicide.
The taking of the hostages has been a catastrophe for all concerned. | | | |
| This is very sad on 11:08 - Feb 11 with 1217 views | Churchman |
| This is very sad on 10:41 - Feb 11 by Blueschev |
No state other than the US and Israel would support it, but what are those opposed going to do about it? Declare war on the US? That would be suicide.
The taking of the hostages has been a catastrophe for all concerned. |
No. Turn away from America and towards China or other Middle East countries? - though I don’t know how relationships between the Middle East states works. Whatever support US gives Egypt and Jordan, what if they rejected it and took that support from Xi? What could America do? Nothing.
The orange idiot sees isolationism as a good thing along with might is right and if you can take what you please. The lesson of history is that this approach is not sustainable. He clearly wants to remodel the world and he may achieve that, but I doubt it’ll be in a way his tiny mind dreams of during his afternoon naps. | | | |
| This is very sad on 11:23 - Feb 11 with 1191 views | Blueschev |
| This is very sad on 11:08 - Feb 11 by Churchman |
No. Turn away from America and towards China or other Middle East countries? - though I don’t know how relationships between the Middle East states works. Whatever support US gives Egypt and Jordan, what if they rejected it and took that support from Xi? What could America do? Nothing.
The orange idiot sees isolationism as a good thing along with might is right and if you can take what you please. The lesson of history is that this approach is not sustainable. He clearly wants to remodel the world and he may achieve that, but I doubt it’ll be in a way his tiny mind dreams of during his afternoon naps. |
If the governments of Egypt and Jordan attempted to switch their allegiances from the US to China they would not remain governments of said countries very much longer. And China would not wish to enter in to a proxy war with the US as they would lose. [Post edited 11 Feb 11:24]
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| This is very sad on 12:08 - Feb 11 with 1127 views | Crawfordsboot |
The posts here make many reasonable observations on the current situation. My concern though is that we should not make the error of viewing the problem as being limited to the awful killing of 1200 Israelis and hostage taking resulting in the totally disproportionate and barbarous response by Israel.
We need also to consider what caused Hamas to act as it did. Look at the ten years or so prior to this and note totally disproportionate deaths of Palestinians v Israelis as Israel settled (stole) Palestinians lands, destroyed their agriculture and squeezed Palestinians out. Israel held thousands in captivity without trial including women and children. They describe them as detainees (we might call them hostages). This was tried and tested Israeli policy over many years while we in the west turned a blind eye or actively encouraged Israel. We and our governments have a lot to answer for. | | | |
| This is very sad on 12:24 - Feb 11 with 1059 views | Crawfordsboot |
| This is very sad on 11:23 - Feb 11 by Blueschev |
If the governments of Egypt and Jordan attempted to switch their allegiances from the US to China they would not remain governments of said countries very much longer. And China would not wish to enter in to a proxy war with the US as they would lose. [Post edited 11 Feb 11:24]
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Your absolutely right as is made very clear in “The myth of American idealism” (How US foreign policy endangers the world) by Chomsky and Robinson. It’s a scary read. | | | |
| This is very sad on 13:57 - Feb 11 with 983 views | BrayBlue |
Don't forget, for every Israeli who finds themselves in that awful situation there will be dozens of Palestinians in exactly the same situation upon their release.
Cheers,
JK | | | |
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