| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance 10:34 - May 4 with 1233 views | jasondozzell |
Really enjoyed seeing Goodison yesterday. One of the great grounds in British football. The displays and atmosphere at the beginning was moving.
A slight shiver as you appreciated all that history being put to rest. The game's relentless 'modernisation' and vulnerability to the whims of huge investment/venture capital etc. has never been so stark. As these grounds go, we're losing the last things that connect us to a very different period of football. A more romantic and innocent period that has gone.
St Luke's church in sight behind the screen in the corner of the Gwladys Street end, the steep no nonsense stands which just aimed to pack a crowd in, not sell them an experience, the banners, the ground nestled in residential streets. But above all a reminder of a time when the ordinariness of football, it's part in a normal Saturday routine and working class experience, with little marketing or hype, was married with the possibility that your local team could do extraordinary things and build a dynasty and that this was more to do with timing, individual personalities and a collective will than simply the cold calculation of a spreadsheet of financial investment.
If a team like Everton, with all that proud history, can't realistically ever win the league or cups again , then what have we done to the game? Nowadays even colossal financial investment will probably only mean you're competitive in the horrible 'finish in the champions league places' context.
But Goodison reminded you of a time when anything was possible and communities could be proud of teams that built dynasties that represented them and were shaped by them.
It must have been so exciting in that pre Premier League era!
Can you imagine anyone building a new ground now right in the heart of a community that is part of it in the way Goodison is? The sight of the church from inside the ground was strangely affecting - something that would never happen now.
As for Town. Spirited! Deserved fightback and some really good signs. I thought Omari played well, Enciso goal incredible and great character and concentration shown by all.
But as many have said, my standout was Hirst again. What a player, what a worker. His hold up and link up play has been outstanding again this season. He's so unlucky not to have played more. Well taken goal too.
But the thing I most liked yesterday? The way he puts the team first.. Enciso is clearly an emotional character, must be tricky to manage sometimes. Did you notice how much time George put in geeing him up and supporting him? When he hit a shot well over, it was George who was straight over to give him a positive tap and encouragement. Happened several times. Tayls was the same when Enciso went down injured. The emotional intelligence of this group is yet another reflection of KM.
We are in very good shape.
[Post edited 4 May 10:37]
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| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 10:50 - May 4 with 1133 views | mellowblue |
Nicely written. I am glad we never seriously thought about about moving from Portman Road. Not that we ever had the funds to do so in the past.
I like George. Delap, the one man battering ram, has obviously done well, but if we had bought a striker more in the Hirst mold with his good vision and hold up skills, we might have prospered slightly better. I have always thought there is a big disconnect between Delap and those around him. |  | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 10:55 - May 4 with 1109 views | jasondozzell |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 10:50 - May 4 by mellowblue |
Nicely written. I am glad we never seriously thought about about moving from Portman Road. Not that we ever had the funds to do so in the past.
I like George. Delap, the one man battering ram, has obviously done well, but if we had bought a striker more in the Hirst mold with his good vision and hold up skills, we might have prospered slightly better. I have always thought there is a big disconnect between Delap and those around him. |
Cheers! Completely agree - would be terrible to ever move from PR. We have one of the best grounds left in this country.
I agree too re Delap. He's been sensational to watch and is a special player but his all round game needs more development. He's still very raw. I am still hoping he sees KM as the man to develop him further and that we might loan him next season...
Hirst definitely sees the play better and has a better understanding of others movement. We must keep him ahead of next season. | | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 11:41 - May 4 with 988 views | Churchman |
I enjoyed that. Interesting and accurate.
Whilst I witnessed the 70s and 80s, it’s so long ago now and feels it. I can remember obviously what it was like to witness big crowds big games, football violence, little tv football, knee high tackles, all of it. But it feels like a bit of a faded Pathe news real in my head.
The images never show what it actually felt like at the time. What your expectations and life expectations were at the time. The feel of it. I guess old stadiums are a tangible link. An identity and when they’re gone so is much of that. Take West Ham’s Boleyn ground: gone and with it a lot of what made West Ham who they were (not that I ever liked them).
I mourn their loss and remember them fondly. But unless they are modernised and the inherent faults accepted, most had and have to go. It’s the way of things. I hope Portman Road stays, even if the stands are replaced. In my lifetime there’s only tiny fractions left of what used to be there when I first went, but the ground has that same feel. Long may that continue.
The thing that grieves me more though is the crushing of competition and the focus on £££. Promotion was about picking up £millions as much as the achievement. Staying in the Premier League target - the same. FA Cup? Rubber bone competition. Finish 17th or above, get into some European competition. For the money.
Still, I’m glad you had a great day and yes, ITFC is in good shape. [Post edited 4 May 11:51]
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| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 12:36 - May 4 with 870 views | jasondozzell |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 11:41 - May 4 by Churchman |
I enjoyed that. Interesting and accurate.
Whilst I witnessed the 70s and 80s, it’s so long ago now and feels it. I can remember obviously what it was like to witness big crowds big games, football violence, little tv football, knee high tackles, all of it. But it feels like a bit of a faded Pathe news real in my head.
The images never show what it actually felt like at the time. What your expectations and life expectations were at the time. The feel of it. I guess old stadiums are a tangible link. An identity and when they’re gone so is much of that. Take West Ham’s Boleyn ground: gone and with it a lot of what made West Ham who they were (not that I ever liked them).
I mourn their loss and remember them fondly. But unless they are modernised and the inherent faults accepted, most had and have to go. It’s the way of things. I hope Portman Road stays, even if the stands are replaced. In my lifetime there’s only tiny fractions left of what used to be there when I first went, but the ground has that same feel. Long may that continue.
The thing that grieves me more though is the crushing of competition and the focus on £££. Promotion was about picking up £millions as much as the achievement. Staying in the Premier League target - the same. FA Cup? Rubber bone competition. Finish 17th or above, get into some European competition. For the money.
Still, I’m glad you had a great day and yes, ITFC is in good shape. [Post edited 4 May 11:51]
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Thank you!
Really interesting to hear how it feels to look back on the 70s/80s now. It's a good point about the inevitability of change. I know I sometimes have a tendency to over romanticise and there was clearly stuff that has changed from the better from that time. Not least the disappearance of regular football violence.
I love the way you talk about Portman Road. Things change but the spirit remains!
Completely agree re the crushing of competition. It's the been disastrous. | | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 14:06 - May 4 with 747 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 10:50 - May 4 by mellowblue |
Nicely written. I am glad we never seriously thought about about moving from Portman Road. Not that we ever had the funds to do so in the past.
I like George. Delap, the one man battering ram, has obviously done well, but if we had bought a striker more in the Hirst mold with his good vision and hold up skills, we might have prospered slightly better. I have always thought there is a big disconnect between Delap and those around him. |
Hirst is a so much more rounded player than Delap.
I believe if Liam does leave in the summer then at the end of his career he will regret that he did not stay here another year and learn more from KMcK and George. |  | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 14:22 - May 4 with 720 views | MK1 |
Yesterday was a very good day out at the football. The Everton fans made us feel welcome and part of the party.
When they went 2-0 up I was dreading the worst of days, but we stuck in there and got a very deserved away point. Always think we look better with George up top. He understands what is expected of him and brings the best out of Hutchinson and Chaplin. Next season with a front 4 from Hirst, Hutchinson, Ogbene, Burns, Chaplin, Szmodics, Clarke, Broadhead, Philogene, puts us in a very, very strong position. Add 2 in midfield and a proper RB, then we have every chance of going straight back up.
We can afford to lose 3 or 4 and still have a very strong base from which to build on. |  |
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| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 16:36 - May 4 with 564 views | grow_our_own |
Yeh love tight old grounds. Football is nothing without atmosphere, and there's nothing like being right on top of the action. FIFA rules dictating stands must be six meters from touchlines and seven and a half meters behind goal-lines (see 8.3 - https://www.scribd.com/document/220942267/Stadium-Standard-FIFA) are nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with giving space for advertising hoardings. Total football atmosphere killer. West Ham and Arsenal fans hate their new stadiums.
Love Portman Road, which was built before these stupid new rules were enacted. Especially the side stands where you can almost whisper to the players. It's a cauldron of noise. Need to keep this proximity to the pitch when the Cobbold is _extended_. And that's how you'd do it. "New" stand will not be new at all. It'll be an extension of the existing. Keep enough of the existing front so the BS FIFA regs for new stands won't apply. [Post edited 4 May 16:56]
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| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 17:34 - May 4 with 471 views | olimar |
The view of St. Lukes church feels like a good analogy for the encroachment of modern football at Goodison Park.
Went to Goodison 5-6 years ago and had read previously about how closely St. Lukes was connected to the stadium. Seeing both the Church and the football ground standing side by side in the middle of the community seemed quite a poignant symbol. Pre-match, the church still opens on a matchday and sells cups of tea to the older fans who go there to sit and chat.
Upstairs the church had some stalls selling old programmes, badges, Everton art, that sort of thing. Plus a load of stuff about Everton in the community. The links between the two were obvious.
But inside the ground, if you look back at highlights from the 80s or whatever, the Church was always very visible in the corner of the stadium, practically a part of it.
But these days, the Church is barely visible on TV due to ad hoardings, big screen etc blocking it out- as if those involved in how Everton are viewed worldwide wanted to hide it and not look so old fashioned.
Re: Enciso, thought it was funny that when he was down injured and Taylor came over to him, Enciso was gesturing with his hands to explain what was wrong, what he needed etc and Taylor just looked over and Chaplin came running over to listen to him instead. Not sure if Chaplin understands or even speaks Spanish? | | | |
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| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 17:36 - May 4 with 468 views | Churchman |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 12:36 - May 4 by jasondozzell |
Thank you!
Really interesting to hear how it feels to look back on the 70s/80s now. It's a good point about the inevitability of change. I know I sometimes have a tendency to over romanticise and there was clearly stuff that has changed from the better from that time. Not least the disappearance of regular football violence.
I love the way you talk about Portman Road. Things change but the spirit remains!
Completely agree re the crushing of competition. It's the been disastrous. |
There is a tendency to over romanticise things and it’s easy to do with old experiences. Some of the games were grinding and poor.
The violence? We were easy with it because away from home (PR was of course safe), we learned where to be, where not to be, most important when to retreat and run! The only rule was don’t tell mum! Nor did we. We actually loved the jeopardy. My dad used to go to Norwich in the 50s for a fight, drink etc so he didn’t care and as a young idiot neither did I. It was what it was which was more than bad teeth, ill fitting clothes and grateful smiles.
Some of the grounds were truly desperate. PR always felt brushed and smart, even back to the Chicken Run time. Pictures of our ground on its own show asbestos sheeting, floodlight pylons, terraces, characterful stand roofs, all a bit grey, old fashioned, meh. Another era.
But go to the Dell, Goldstone, Upton Park, Vicarage Rd in 92 with the stench of body odour, p1ss, booze and decay, in fact just about anywhere smaller than the lovely White Hart Lane and Highbury etc and most of the grounds were at best characterful and at worst desperate. But nobody noticed. It was what it was; of its time. It was other peoples homes. Their history, their place and I loved it whether it was odd Filbert Street, perpetually cold Highfield Rd, burnt down Eastville or funny little Brisbane Rd (FA Cup Replay 1979).
I’ve only done the Emirates once (League Cup game). Fantastic ground n all that. Brilliant concourse, view, seats. But I wish they could have done something with Highbury. Like old Wembley, you felt the history. What that means, I don’t know. But with new Wembley, great though it is, there’s no feel of Wembley to it at all.
When the team came out first game of the season against Liverpool, my thoughts went to my late father and my grandfather and what they’d witnessed in that place going all the way back to the 1920s/30s. The weight of history. It was some moment for me. Would it have been the same at flat pack St Mary’s, Walkers, Middlesbrough, Cov, Pride Park (Baseball Gd - now there was a 70s experience?)?
For some, yes. For me, no. Nostalgia v the future. Since we can’t live in the past, we have to embrace the future, but you don’t have to lose the essence of who you are which is why I’m so up for staying at Portman Rd and lugging it into the 2020s and beyond! [Post edited 4 May 22:32]
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| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 20:37 - May 4 with 278 views | jasondozzell |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 14:22 - May 4 by MK1 |
Yesterday was a very good day out at the football. The Everton fans made us feel welcome and part of the party.
When they went 2-0 up I was dreading the worst of days, but we stuck in there and got a very deserved away point. Always think we look better with George up top. He understands what is expected of him and brings the best out of Hutchinson and Chaplin. Next season with a front 4 from Hirst, Hutchinson, Ogbene, Burns, Chaplin, Szmodics, Clarke, Broadhead, Philogene, puts us in a very, very strong position. Add 2 in midfield and a proper RB, then we have every chance of going straight back up.
We can afford to lose 3 or 4 and still have a very strong base from which to build on. |
Completely agree about strength of squad, especially that front line. We're really in a good place and I think we'll manage the changes this summer well. | | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 20:40 - May 4 with 278 views | jasondozzell |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 17:34 - May 4 by olimar |
The view of St. Lukes church feels like a good analogy for the encroachment of modern football at Goodison Park.
Went to Goodison 5-6 years ago and had read previously about how closely St. Lukes was connected to the stadium. Seeing both the Church and the football ground standing side by side in the middle of the community seemed quite a poignant symbol. Pre-match, the church still opens on a matchday and sells cups of tea to the older fans who go there to sit and chat.
Upstairs the church had some stalls selling old programmes, badges, Everton art, that sort of thing. Plus a load of stuff about Everton in the community. The links between the two were obvious.
But inside the ground, if you look back at highlights from the 80s or whatever, the Church was always very visible in the corner of the stadium, practically a part of it.
But these days, the Church is barely visible on TV due to ad hoardings, big screen etc blocking it out- as if those involved in how Everton are viewed worldwide wanted to hide it and not look so old fashioned.
Re: Enciso, thought it was funny that when he was down injured and Taylor came over to him, Enciso was gesturing with his hands to explain what was wrong, what he needed etc and Taylor just looked over and Chaplin came running over to listen to him instead. Not sure if Chaplin understands or even speaks Spanish? |
Really enjoyed reading about your experience with St Luke's. That sounds fantastic!
You've summed it perfectly ands you're absolutely right about how the church wouldn't fit their view of the future. They've now got American sports coaches involved and advising. It'll be the US sports model again.
It's sad what is being lost.
Re Enciso - yes! I think they knew he was maybe hamming it up a bit and wanted him up. Don't think Tayls is fluent...😁 | | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 20:47 - May 4 with 268 views | jasondozzell |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 17:36 - May 4 by Churchman |
There is a tendency to over romanticise things and it’s easy to do with old experiences. Some of the games were grinding and poor.
The violence? We were easy with it because away from home (PR was of course safe), we learned where to be, where not to be, most important when to retreat and run! The only rule was don’t tell mum! Nor did we. We actually loved the jeopardy. My dad used to go to Norwich in the 50s for a fight, drink etc so he didn’t care and as a young idiot neither did I. It was what it was which was more than bad teeth, ill fitting clothes and grateful smiles.
Some of the grounds were truly desperate. PR always felt brushed and smart, even back to the Chicken Run time. Pictures of our ground on its own show asbestos sheeting, floodlight pylons, terraces, characterful stand roofs, all a bit grey, old fashioned, meh. Another era.
But go to the Dell, Goldstone, Upton Park, Vicarage Rd in 92 with the stench of body odour, p1ss, booze and decay, in fact just about anywhere smaller than the lovely White Hart Lane and Highbury etc and most of the grounds were at best characterful and at worst desperate. But nobody noticed. It was what it was; of its time. It was other peoples homes. Their history, their place and I loved it whether it was odd Filbert Street, perpetually cold Highfield Rd, burnt down Eastville or funny little Brisbane Rd (FA Cup Replay 1979).
I’ve only done the Emirates once (League Cup game). Fantastic ground n all that. Brilliant concourse, view, seats. But I wish they could have done something with Highbury. Like old Wembley, you felt the history. What that means, I don’t know. But with new Wembley, great though it is, there’s no feel of Wembley to it at all.
When the team came out first game of the season against Liverpool, my thoughts went to my late father and my grandfather and what they’d witnessed in that place going all the way back to the 1920s/30s. The weight of history. It was some moment for me. Would it have been the same at flat pack St Mary’s, Walkers, Middlesbrough, Cov, Pride Park (Baseball Gd - now there was a 70s experience?)?
For some, yes. For me, no. Nostalgia v the future. Since we can’t live in the past, we have to embrace the future, but you don’t have to lose the essence of who you are which is why I’m so up for staying at Portman Rd and lugging it into the 2020s and beyond! [Post edited 4 May 22:32]
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Well put!
Enjoyed reading about how the grounds were then.
I've only done the Emirates once too (that same league cup semi). i. Know exactly what you mean about the new stadiums. New Wembley is never going to be same as the old. Not least because they play the cup semis there now!!
Let's hope PR isv still looking smart and beautiful well into this century. The Cobbold redevelopment is key. To Needs to be done to look to the future but also needs to keep the ground's identity and character. | | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 22:47 - May 4 with 165 views | Churchman |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 20:47 - May 4 by jasondozzell |
Well put!
Enjoyed reading about how the grounds were then.
I've only done the Emirates once too (that same league cup semi). i. Know exactly what you mean about the new stadiums. New Wembley is never going to be same as the old. Not least because they play the cup semis there now!!
Let's hope PR isv still looking smart and beautiful well into this century. The Cobbold redevelopment is key. To Needs to be done to look to the future but also needs to keep the ground's identity and character. |
I agree. Cobbold/Portman/East Stand is key to the club’s identity in the future.
The current East stand replaced the Chicken Run. It really was a chicken run in the early 1900s too! it was built on waste ground so I suppose there was plenty in it for the chickens. As the biggest and best stand in the ground, became synonymous with Bobby Robson. All photos were taken in front of it. It was smart and modern.
53 years on, time doesn’t wait for anyone or anything. If it’s replaced I hope they get it right including reusing the style of the lettering on the front of the stand roof. | | | |
| Goodison, the ghosts of a previous football and thoughts on Town performance on 23:00 - May 4 with 120 views | cbower |
Great post. |  |
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