| Posted with no apology for family self interest. 20:00 - Feb 11 with 1354 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Surely anything that encourages home produced nurses to work in the NHS for longer is a good thing.
'Based on a survey of more than 5,000 nurses in England, the report measured the effect that different scenarios, including student loan forgiveness, could have on retention. Nurses told the researchers they would be willing to commit to 7 to 10 more years in roles that offered student loan forgiveness.
Nicola Ranger added: "Nursing and patients are being failed by a broken education system. The prospect of huge debt continues to put off the nurses of the future, while those that do enter the profession are given little reason to stay in their jobs. This results in too few nurses in our services and falling standards of care for patients, with the most vulnerable suffering the most."
https://www.rcn.org.uk/news-an
These are the current terms of Junior's £60k debt for the pleasure of being a mental health nurses...
Key Aspects of September 2023 (Plan 5) Loans:
Repayment Threshold: You start repaying when earning over £25,000 a year, £2,083 a month, or £480 a week.Repayment Amount: You pay 9% of income over the threshold.Interest Rates: The interest rate is set at the Retail Price Index (RPI).Loan Duration: The loan is written off 40 years after it becomes eligible for repayment.Repayment Start Date: Repayments begin in April 2026 at the earliest.Threshold Freeze: The £25,000 threshold is set to remain until 2026-27.
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 20:13 - Feb 11 with 1094 views | Swansea_Blue |
This wasn’t the news item I thought you were going to mention, but this is probably more important. You’d think we’d want to train more nurses given we struggle to find enough. Anyone looking ahead further than the next leadership challenge should see the benefit of having a pipeline of home trained nurses. Presumably the situation has continued to be pretty dire since they scrapped the bursaries in 20whenever (a couple of years before Covid I think)?
I thought you were going to mention this: ‘Nurses’ families fear being torn apart in UK immigration crackdown’. https://www.theguardian.com/uk
Which of course becomes more important when we need to attract and retain overseas staff because we’ve deliberately undermined supply of home trained nurses.
I see there was some better news about pay and progression today though, but I haven’t seen the detail. [Post edited 11 Feb 20:14]
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 20:46 - Feb 11 with 986 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 20:13 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
This wasn’t the news item I thought you were going to mention, but this is probably more important. You’d think we’d want to train more nurses given we struggle to find enough. Anyone looking ahead further than the next leadership challenge should see the benefit of having a pipeline of home trained nurses. Presumably the situation has continued to be pretty dire since they scrapped the bursaries in 20whenever (a couple of years before Covid I think)?
I thought you were going to mention this: ‘Nurses’ families fear being torn apart in UK immigration crackdown’. https://www.theguardian.com/uk
Which of course becomes more important when we need to attract and retain overseas staff because we’ve deliberately undermined supply of home trained nurses.
I see there was some better news about pay and progression today though, but I haven’t seen the detail. [Post edited 11 Feb 20:14]
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Bursaries have been reintroduced fortunately. I missed the pay and progression news too but will hunt it out. As Junior gets nearer to graduation the full extent of her indebtedness is sinking in! | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:02 - Feb 11 with 929 views | GlasgowBlue |
Completely agree. Had this conversation with the mrs after listening to something on the car radio and my view is that if you go into the NHS or education for a minimum of seven years then all student loan debt should be wiped out. |  |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:18 - Feb 11 with 896 views | DJR |
The Guardian has been covering this story (ie. the effect of Reeve's Budget changes) a lot in the last few days but I think the focus has been more on those from an earlier cohort, some of whose debt has reached around £100,000 due to the punitive interest rates.
https://www.theguardian.com/mo
"£99,987 and counting: graduates trapped by ballooning student loans
As their debts rise, graduates reveal how loans are reshaping careers, finances and faith in the system"
And the Guardian reports a protest today by people from an earlier cohort.
https://www.theguardian.com/mo
"NUS urges ‘loan shark’ Reeves to reverse changes to student debt repayment
Policy announced in autumn budget freezes threshold at which students start repaying university loans"
I do hope your daughter gets a job because I realise how valuable a role it is with the daughter of one my wife's best friends currently sectioned. But life can't be easy with the sort of debt that students these days have to cope with, which doesn't leave a lot over for housing costs and pension saving. [Post edited 12 Feb 7:18]
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:27 - Feb 11 with 870 views | DJR |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 20:13 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
This wasn’t the news item I thought you were going to mention, but this is probably more important. You’d think we’d want to train more nurses given we struggle to find enough. Anyone looking ahead further than the next leadership challenge should see the benefit of having a pipeline of home trained nurses. Presumably the situation has continued to be pretty dire since they scrapped the bursaries in 20whenever (a couple of years before Covid I think)?
I thought you were going to mention this: ‘Nurses’ families fear being torn apart in UK immigration crackdown’. https://www.theguardian.com/uk
Which of course becomes more important when we need to attract and retain overseas staff because we’ve deliberately undermined supply of home trained nurses.
I see there was some better news about pay and progression today though, but I haven’t seen the detail. [Post edited 11 Feb 20:14]
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I was going to post about that story earlier today because changing the rules to make it longer for people already here to get settled status is in my view completely outrageous because it goes against the principles of natural justice.
This passage in particular is worth highlighting.
"Zayne, an 18-year-old aspiring doctor who responded to the Praxis survey, said his mother “cries every day because our whole future feels like it’s been pulled away overnight”.
He said: “My dad is an NHS doctor and chose to work in the UK because he believed in the rules and the promise of stability. He gave up better-paid work abroad, sold our house and car and spent thousands doing everything right, only to be told, a month before we qualify, that the rules have changed.”
Sadly, if (blue) Labour can be this awful, God help us if the Tories or Reform come to power. [Post edited 11 Feb 21:40]
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:41 - Feb 11 with 832 views | jontysnut |
We need to retain the nurses we already have otherwise it's like pouring water into a leaking bucket. |  | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:44 - Feb 11 with 827 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:18 - Feb 11 by DJR |
The Guardian has been covering this story (ie. the effect of Reeve's Budget changes) a lot in the last few days but I think the focus has been more on those from an earlier cohort, some of whose debt has reached around £100,000 due to the punitive interest rates.
https://www.theguardian.com/mo
"£99,987 and counting: graduates trapped by ballooning student loans
As their debts rise, graduates reveal how loans are reshaping careers, finances and faith in the system"
And the Guardian reports a protest today by people from an earlier cohort.
https://www.theguardian.com/mo
"NUS urges ‘loan shark’ Reeves to reverse changes to student debt repayment
Policy announced in autumn budget freezes threshold at which students start repaying university loans"
I do hope your daughter gets a job because I realise how valuable a role it is with the daughter of one my wife's best friends currently sectioned. But life can't be easy with the sort of debt that students these days have to cope with, which doesn't leave a lot over for housing costs and pension saving. [Post edited 12 Feb 7:18]
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Her passion is to go into child and adolescent mental health services.
Regarding that article today I believe it's about freezing at a wage of £29k before repayment begins, for her cohort it is frozen at £25k. | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:48 - Feb 11 with 813 views | LRB84UK |
I started working for the NHS in 2009. My husband started working for them in 2011. Neither of us have been in the financial position that we can pay into the pension.
I "left" my job in December 2022 and started uni in Jan 2023, I have just completed my 3 year midwifery degree and my current debt is £72,168.62. I have completed 2432 hours of unpaid work during the degree as it is half placement and half uni. I haven't even finished the degree before the student loan company contacted me to tell me how much I owe and how much interest I will pay.
Out of my cohort of 35 students, 10 of us have jobs, across 6 different trusts. Only 2 trusts had vacancies. I am one of the lucky ones and have a job secured. The majority of the cohort are £70,000+ in debt and havent managed to get a job as a midwife as there is no funding for them.
The staffing levels are shocking, in three years I have never seen a shift of full staff.
With 17 years of nhs experience, this is the worst I have known it.
We all had the glimmer of hope with the government job guarantee......
I shall not live long enough to pay of my debt as I am a mature student. In context the debt is about what I would have earned over the 3 years, its like I have paid the hospital to allow me to work there. |  | | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:50 - Feb 11 with 796 views | DJR |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:44 - Feb 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Her passion is to go into child and adolescent mental health services.
Regarding that article today I believe it's about freezing at a wage of £29k before repayment begins, for her cohort it is frozen at £25k. |
They are all being screwed. but £25,000 is the minimum wage.
And whilst I think the interest rate is lower for your daughter, the loan goes on for 40 years rather than 30 years. | | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:51 - Feb 11 with 793 views | DJR |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:48 - Feb 11 by LRB84UK |
I started working for the NHS in 2009. My husband started working for them in 2011. Neither of us have been in the financial position that we can pay into the pension.
I "left" my job in December 2022 and started uni in Jan 2023, I have just completed my 3 year midwifery degree and my current debt is £72,168.62. I have completed 2432 hours of unpaid work during the degree as it is half placement and half uni. I haven't even finished the degree before the student loan company contacted me to tell me how much I owe and how much interest I will pay.
Out of my cohort of 35 students, 10 of us have jobs, across 6 different trusts. Only 2 trusts had vacancies. I am one of the lucky ones and have a job secured. The majority of the cohort are £70,000+ in debt and havent managed to get a job as a midwife as there is no funding for them.
The staffing levels are shocking, in three years I have never seen a shift of full staff.
With 17 years of nhs experience, this is the worst I have known it.
We all had the glimmer of hope with the government job guarantee......
I shall not live long enough to pay of my debt as I am a mature student. In context the debt is about what I would have earned over the 3 years, its like I have paid the hospital to allow me to work there. |
That is absolutely shocking. | | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:10 - Feb 11 with 753 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:48 - Feb 11 by LRB84UK |
I started working for the NHS in 2009. My husband started working for them in 2011. Neither of us have been in the financial position that we can pay into the pension.
I "left" my job in December 2022 and started uni in Jan 2023, I have just completed my 3 year midwifery degree and my current debt is £72,168.62. I have completed 2432 hours of unpaid work during the degree as it is half placement and half uni. I haven't even finished the degree before the student loan company contacted me to tell me how much I owe and how much interest I will pay.
Out of my cohort of 35 students, 10 of us have jobs, across 6 different trusts. Only 2 trusts had vacancies. I am one of the lucky ones and have a job secured. The majority of the cohort are £70,000+ in debt and havent managed to get a job as a midwife as there is no funding for them.
The staffing levels are shocking, in three years I have never seen a shift of full staff.
With 17 years of nhs experience, this is the worst I have known it.
We all had the glimmer of hope with the government job guarantee......
I shall not live long enough to pay of my debt as I am a mature student. In context the debt is about what I would have earned over the 3 years, its like I have paid the hospital to allow me to work there. |
This all sounds horribly familiar. When Junior signed up to study at Leeds they were assured that graduates would find posts in that health authority, this is no longer the case despite the obvious need. This week she will have worked 3 13 hour shifts on an older women psychosis ward and completed 2 days of 'bank' work training. | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:13 - Feb 11 with 747 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:50 - Feb 11 by DJR |
They are all being screwed. but £25,000 is the minimum wage.
And whilst I think the interest rate is lower for your daughter, the loan goes on for 40 years rather than 30 years. |
It's enough to make you deeply cynical which, as you all know on here, is not my natural disposition. | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:27 - Feb 11 with 719 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 20:46 - Feb 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Bursaries have been reintroduced fortunately. I missed the pay and progression news too but will hunt it out. As Junior gets nearer to graduation the full extent of her indebtedness is sinking in! |
How many sellable body parts has she got? You’ve not struck lucky with 4 kidneys or anything quirky like that?  | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:45 - Feb 11 with 697 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 21:48 - Feb 11 by LRB84UK |
I started working for the NHS in 2009. My husband started working for them in 2011. Neither of us have been in the financial position that we can pay into the pension.
I "left" my job in December 2022 and started uni in Jan 2023, I have just completed my 3 year midwifery degree and my current debt is £72,168.62. I have completed 2432 hours of unpaid work during the degree as it is half placement and half uni. I haven't even finished the degree before the student loan company contacted me to tell me how much I owe and how much interest I will pay.
Out of my cohort of 35 students, 10 of us have jobs, across 6 different trusts. Only 2 trusts had vacancies. I am one of the lucky ones and have a job secured. The majority of the cohort are £70,000+ in debt and havent managed to get a job as a midwife as there is no funding for them.
The staffing levels are shocking, in three years I have never seen a shift of full staff.
With 17 years of nhs experience, this is the worst I have known it.
We all had the glimmer of hope with the government job guarantee......
I shall not live long enough to pay of my debt as I am a mature student. In context the debt is about what I would have earned over the 3 years, its like I have paid the hospital to allow me to work there. |
I’ve heard of a lot of people retraining as mature students. Are you all going through a midwife crisis?
Sorry, that was terrible  . And probably not appropriate.
That’s a ridiculous position to be in. Presumably the only ‘good’ news is that any unpaid debt gets paid off after the full term. Which isn’t really good for you if you can’t earn enough to pay it off. It’s morally wrong imo. Not everyone is lucky enough to have their employer pay for their degree and training, but some do. The armed forces used to. Some of the larger private companies do through degree apprenticeships. Docs and nurses should definitely be supported through their training - there aren’t many courses that are so vocational. Attach strings like having to pay off unless you spend x years post qualification in the NHS, but don’t leave people to flounder in personal debt. It’s not like doing multiple Geography degrees like I did (jack of all trades, master of none and no obvious career route). | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:52 - Feb 11 with 685 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:45 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
I’ve heard of a lot of people retraining as mature students. Are you all going through a midwife crisis?
Sorry, that was terrible . And probably not appropriate.
That’s a ridiculous position to be in. Presumably the only ‘good’ news is that any unpaid debt gets paid off after the full term. Which isn’t really good for you if you can’t earn enough to pay it off. It’s morally wrong imo. Not everyone is lucky enough to have their employer pay for their degree and training, but some do. The armed forces used to. Some of the larger private companies do through degree apprenticeships. Docs and nurses should definitely be supported through their training - there aren’t many courses that are so vocational. Attach strings like having to pay off unless you spend x years post qualification in the NHS, but don’t leave people to flounder in personal debt. It’s not like doing multiple Geography degrees like I did (jack of all trades, master of none and no obvious career route). |
You'll never guess what degree I got back in the day of free, critical thinking, education! | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 23:24 - Feb 11 with 645 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 22:52 - Feb 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You'll never guess what degree I got back in the day of free, critical thinking, education! |
Bush trimming?  | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 10:05 - Feb 12 with 469 views | Oldboysf81 |
My daughter will be graduating this year as a children's nurse. The past 6 months the message from her lecturers is clear - there are very few available jobs. She is now going to spend a further two years in full time study to switch paths. It is both maddening and heart-breaking. | | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 11:41 - Feb 12 with 406 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 10:05 - Feb 12 by Oldboysf81 |
My daughter will be graduating this year as a children's nurse. The past 6 months the message from her lecturers is clear - there are very few available jobs. She is now going to spend a further two years in full time study to switch paths. It is both maddening and heart-breaking. |
A complete career change?
So will that be 5 years of loans to pay back? | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 11:52 - Feb 12 with 389 views | bluelagos |
Whole thing is a dogs breakfast /.clusterfck
1. Huge debts scare off working class kids and limit their participation in higher education
2. They retrospectively change rules (like keeping the repayment threshold the same). How is that even legal? A bank can't just change the terms of a loan FFS.
3. The system is unsustainable. When the interest on the loan is more than the repayment it will continue to grow. Paper assets worth nothing if the money isnt repaid ever.
4. The whole thing disincentives hard work. Encourages people to stay below repayment threshold.
And Labour (introduced tuition fees) Tories (upped em to 9k) and Libs (pledged not to then voted for rise) all guilty as sin. Little wonder people had enough. |  |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 11:54 - Feb 12 with 383 views | DanTheMan |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 11:52 - Feb 12 by bluelagos |
Whole thing is a dogs breakfast /.clusterfck
1. Huge debts scare off working class kids and limit their participation in higher education
2. They retrospectively change rules (like keeping the repayment threshold the same). How is that even legal? A bank can't just change the terms of a loan FFS.
3. The system is unsustainable. When the interest on the loan is more than the repayment it will continue to grow. Paper assets worth nothing if the money isnt repaid ever.
4. The whole thing disincentives hard work. Encourages people to stay below repayment threshold.
And Labour (introduced tuition fees) Tories (upped em to 9k) and Libs (pledged not to then voted for rise) all guilty as sin. Little wonder people had enough. |
Don't forget that the system is worse for those who just don't have well off parents. |  |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:02 - Feb 12 with 353 views | leitrimblue |
Is it still the case that if you leave the UK and go work say in Dublin or Galway for example you don't have to pay it back?
Worth looking into possibly |  | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:09 - Feb 12 with 336 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:02 - Feb 12 by leitrimblue |
Is it still the case that if you leave the UK and go work say in Dublin or Galway for example you don't have to pay it back?
Worth looking into possibly |
I can see a fundamental flaw in that argument | |
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| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:34 - Feb 12 with 290 views | leitrimblue |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:09 - Feb 12 by Swansea_Blue |
I can see a fundamental flaw in that argument |
OK, perhaps I just got lucky.. | | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:35 - Feb 12 with 285 views | LRB84UK |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 11:54 - Feb 12 by DanTheMan |
Don't forget that the system is worse for those who just don't have well off parents. |
I'm lucky that husband works. With the finance loan and the bursery I have had £1000 a month. We are home owners so this money has had to cover everything from food, bills, mortgage.... literally had to use it to keep the house running. I waited until our son was older so I didn't have to factor the price of childcare into the mix. It has been a very long, tight 3 years. The interest on the loan is ridiculous.
I am more than aware that no one forced me to do the degree and follow this path. But, as with most things healthcare, I had the "calling" to do it and I do not regret my decision.
There are some on my course who are 21 and in £70,000 of student debt. It is frightening | | | |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:38 - Feb 12 with 277 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Posted with no apology for family self interest. on 12:34 - Feb 12 by leitrimblue |
OK, perhaps I just got lucky.. |
Moving to a place where there are 99 words for rain and a Patrick Kielty is lucky? I’ll take my chances with destitution and terminal decline! | |
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