| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness 10:03 - Apr 3 with 917 views | unstableblue |
Good on you Macron, feels like Western allies are giving up on the public tolerance to Trump due to trade needs. What ever you think of Starmer his strong position on this war is commendable. A war is not a game show, it has deep and long term impacts.
Macron (having already pushed back on trumps comments about his wife that he claimed were ‘unstatesmanlike’) stated:
"This is not a show. We are talking about war and peace and the lives of men and women," the French president told journalists upon arrival in South Korea for a state visit.
"When you want to be serious you don't say every day the opposite of what you said the day before," Macron added.
"And maybe you shouldn't be speaking every day. You should just let things quieten down."
But it’s Nigel mate’s ramblings that the USA is going to bomb civilian infrastructure and take their society back to the Stone Age that is having repercussions.
That’s war crime territory. And the senseless bombing of the civilian suspension bridge, is flipping the Iranian public sentiment that was often pro war into grave concern. As Trump confirms regime change was never a goal.
Economic risk and Israeli activities in Lebanon also deeply troubling.
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 10:30 - Apr 3 with 822 views | Churchman |
Macron did well with that. Dealt with it with typical French dignity and style.
The only thing I’d challenge in your post is the line on ‘war crime territory’. That implies international law which does not and cannot exist without the powerful being committed to it. And the three most powerful countries on earth by a mile, Russia, China, US are not interested.
Ramblings about taking the country back to the Stone Age is just rhetoric and Trump-wind. It cannot be done without boots on the ground and the threat of body bag flights preclude that. There is no appetite for that in America and Iran and the terrorist groups know it.
As for regime change, bumping off the animal that was in charge changes nothing. Vaporise six leaders one after the other and a seventh will be there ready. The regime is that strong after 47 years.
Economic risk and Israel’s uncontrolled and opportunistic assault - deeply troubling and then some. |  | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 10:38 - Apr 3 with 786 views | Swansea_Blue |
The problem is how do you deal with a fanatically religious and unpredictable regime that murders it’s own citizens in cold blood and uses trade to hold the world to ransom?
And Iran isn’t much better either. |  |
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:38 - Apr 3 with 647 views | unstableblue |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 10:30 - Apr 3 by Churchman |
Macron did well with that. Dealt with it with typical French dignity and style.
The only thing I’d challenge in your post is the line on ‘war crime territory’. That implies international law which does not and cannot exist without the powerful being committed to it. And the three most powerful countries on earth by a mile, Russia, China, US are not interested.
Ramblings about taking the country back to the Stone Age is just rhetoric and Trump-wind. It cannot be done without boots on the ground and the threat of body bag flights preclude that. There is no appetite for that in America and Iran and the terrorist groups know it.
As for regime change, bumping off the animal that was in charge changes nothing. Vaporise six leaders one after the other and a seventh will be there ready. The regime is that strong after 47 years.
Economic risk and Israel’s uncontrolled and opportunistic assault - deeply troubling and then some. |
Good point on war crimes and international law. With Trump’s gutting of the DOJ of people of principle, rule of law at home is questionable. But you’re right that one of the worst things about Nigel’s mates reign is the move away from the international rules based order that they led. A order that now seemingly Europe, Canada and parts of Asia uphold. And to your point if no one follows the rules, are they now meaningless - the US have kept feeding Nathanyahu serious munitions despite international courts finding "reasonable grounds" to believe he bears criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity related to the conflict in Gaza.
As for back to the Stone Age comments… yes it’s bluster… but that bridge (despite misinformation by US war office) is a $400m civil infrastructure project to ease congestion between two cities and help way off life. Maybe not Stone Age… but imagine how lives would be if we took out the QE2 bridge? | |
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:40 - Apr 3 with 641 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
It was always going to be the worst outcome for Iranians - practically every military analyst said their regime can’t defeated from Airpower alone. Now when the US withdraws they face damaged infrastructure and a regime that will take revenge against any civilians deemed to be supportive of regime change.
The Gulf states will face a wounded and aggressive adversary, and will likely to see continued spontaneous attacks on their energy infrastructure as the did pre-US intervention. The Houthi’s have largely held back, even Iran’s proxies aren’t happy at their attacks on neighbouring countries, but have now threatened to start attacking shipping again. |  | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:42 - Apr 3 with 631 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
To think that some on here welcomed the start of this war due to naive wishful thinking on regime change! |  |
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:52 - Apr 3 with 597 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:42 - Apr 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
To think that some on here welcomed the start of this war due to naive wishful thinking on regime change! |
Still, look on the bright side. Iran have now realised they can generate up to the equivalent of a quarter of their GDP per year in tolls from the Straight of Hormuz. So think of the employment opportunities in the terrorism sector! Trump’s legacy will be higher global costs and increased unrest in the region.
It’s hard to work out whether Trump is an active Russian asset or just an idiot. | |
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:58 - Apr 3 with 563 views | iamatractorboy |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:52 - Apr 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Still, look on the bright side. Iran have now realised they can generate up to the equivalent of a quarter of their GDP per year in tolls from the Straight of Hormuz. So think of the employment opportunities in the terrorism sector! Trump’s legacy will be higher global costs and increased unrest in the region.
It’s hard to work out whether Trump is an active Russian asset or just an idiot. |
No reason why he can't be both! | | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:59 - Apr 3 with 560 views | Kievthegreat |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:52 - Apr 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Still, look on the bright side. Iran have now realised they can generate up to the equivalent of a quarter of their GDP per year in tolls from the Straight of Hormuz. So think of the employment opportunities in the terrorism sector! Trump’s legacy will be higher global costs and increased unrest in the region.
It’s hard to work out whether Trump is an active Russian asset or just an idiot. |
"It’s hard to work out whether Trump is an active Russian asset or just an idiot."
Why are we ignoring the glaring possibility that he's both! |  | | |
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:07 - Apr 3 with 513 views | Kievthegreat |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:38 - Apr 3 by unstableblue |
Good point on war crimes and international law. With Trump’s gutting of the DOJ of people of principle, rule of law at home is questionable. But you’re right that one of the worst things about Nigel’s mates reign is the move away from the international rules based order that they led. A order that now seemingly Europe, Canada and parts of Asia uphold. And to your point if no one follows the rules, are they now meaningless - the US have kept feeding Nathanyahu serious munitions despite international courts finding "reasonable grounds" to believe he bears criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity related to the conflict in Gaza.
As for back to the Stone Age comments… yes it’s bluster… but that bridge (despite misinformation by US war office) is a $400m civil infrastructure project to ease congestion between two cities and help way off life. Maybe not Stone Age… but imagine how lives would be if we took out the QE2 bridge? |
While I believe the Stone Age comments make it clear the bridge attack and others are not being targeted primarily for military reasons, any road or bridge that has carried or likely will carry any military vehicle can still be a valid target.
So discussing the QE2 example, if Britain is at war and we move any military materiel or vehicles across the QE2 bridge, it's a completely justifiable target. Same with Ukraine and attacks on the Kursk bridge (excluding the one where they blew up an unwitting civilian truck). They wouldn't be war crimes because they are a military target. Trump's can be argued to be a war crime because I don't believe he's trying to impair the Iranian military, but inflict suffering on civilians. Not because all civil infrastructure is off-limits. | | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:09 - Apr 3 with 510 views | mellowblue |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:59 - Apr 3 by Kievthegreat |
"It’s hard to work out whether Trump is an active Russian asset or just an idiot."
Why are we ignoring the glaring possibility that he's both! |
Because Russian intelligence whether Soviet or Putin era have never recruited idiots, that is why ! [Post edited 3 Apr 12:09]
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:15 - Apr 3 with 457 views | Camul123 |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:09 - Apr 3 by mellowblue |
Because Russian intelligence whether Soviet or Putin era have never recruited idiots, that is why ! [Post edited 3 Apr 12:09]
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Plenty of "useful" ones though | | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:36 - Apr 3 with 403 views | Churchman |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:42 - Apr 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
To think that some on here welcomed the start of this war due to naive wishful thinking on regime change! |
Did anyone really welcome the start of this war, BDS? They might have welcomed the idea that the killing of despots who’ve murdered and enslaved 10s of 1000s of their own people might be a good thing. I admit I certainly did, but not a war like this with no clear objectives beyond bombing the cr@p out of anything and everything.
It doesn’t take too much reading and thinking about to realise three things. Firstly, how do people rise up against the creatures that control that country? Stand up and you will be denounced and killed along with your family. Only the most desperate will volunteer for that kind of gig.
Secondly, that regime has embedded itself since 1979. It is sophisticated and complete in its control and structures. It’s not an ‘all on Saddam’ style regime. Keep killing them, more will emerge. Regime change without invading the place is not going to happen. And the latter quite rightly is not an option.
Last point - the size of the place. Geographically it’s enormous. The size of most of Western Europe. It has a million places to hide stuff and I believe a huge tunnel network. Tooling about in B1s, B2s and B52s is not going to achieve much more than killing mostly innocent civilians.
None of the above is complicated. It just required Trump to hold the enjoyment of smelling his own f@rts for a minute, do a few minutes reading. Maybe ask a few people and listen. Bit of a shame that reading, thinking and listening are not too high on his skills list.
Shtbibbon just wanted ‘his’ war as leaders seem to do these days - as long as they are not personally at risk. The outcome is the deaths of people who have nothing to do with this, a more uncertain world and the certainty that Iran will build, buy and use a nuclear bomb sooner rather than later. Thanks Donald. | | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:47 - Apr 3 with 365 views | Kievthegreat |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 11:42 - Apr 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
To think that some on here welcomed the start of this war due to naive wishful thinking on regime change! |
I think there was potentially a window to help the anti-regime protestors, but Trump came in WAY too late. I think there was still a good chance the regime holds on because they've got layers of structure holding their regime in place, but the idea you could just kill the Ayatollah and everything would collapse is hopelessly naïve. | | | |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 13:20 - Apr 3 with 249 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:15 - Apr 3 by Camul123 |
Plenty of "useful" ones though |
That’s true. I’m assuming that Trump mostly favours Russia because he’s a very similar operator* to Putin, so it’s inevitable they’ll end up with similar results. I wouldn’t rule out him being an active agent, but I’d say unlikely as that would be the biggest political story possibly of all time.
The idiot bit is undeniable however!
*by that I mean both have a disregard for the rule of law, are corrupt, believe might is right and they can take what they want, albeit Putin seems more logical and strategic. [Post edited 3 Apr 13:33]
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| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 13:48 - Apr 3 with 131 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Macron says what everyone thinks; Iranians suddenly realise Trump’s madness on 12:36 - Apr 3 by Churchman |
Did anyone really welcome the start of this war, BDS? They might have welcomed the idea that the killing of despots who’ve murdered and enslaved 10s of 1000s of their own people might be a good thing. I admit I certainly did, but not a war like this with no clear objectives beyond bombing the cr@p out of anything and everything.
It doesn’t take too much reading and thinking about to realise three things. Firstly, how do people rise up against the creatures that control that country? Stand up and you will be denounced and killed along with your family. Only the most desperate will volunteer for that kind of gig.
Secondly, that regime has embedded itself since 1979. It is sophisticated and complete in its control and structures. It’s not an ‘all on Saddam’ style regime. Keep killing them, more will emerge. Regime change without invading the place is not going to happen. And the latter quite rightly is not an option.
Last point - the size of the place. Geographically it’s enormous. The size of most of Western Europe. It has a million places to hide stuff and I believe a huge tunnel network. Tooling about in B1s, B2s and B52s is not going to achieve much more than killing mostly innocent civilians.
None of the above is complicated. It just required Trump to hold the enjoyment of smelling his own f@rts for a minute, do a few minutes reading. Maybe ask a few people and listen. Bit of a shame that reading, thinking and listening are not too high on his skills list.
Shtbibbon just wanted ‘his’ war as leaders seem to do these days - as long as they are not personally at risk. The outcome is the deaths of people who have nothing to do with this, a more uncertain world and the certainty that Iran will build, buy and use a nuclear bomb sooner rather than later. Thanks Donald. |
There was certainly a degree of hedging bets (perhaps after the Gaza experience) alongside tweets of cheering Iranians. Nobody is cheering now! | |
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