| Staying up was never realistic 12:17 - Apr 21 with 1024 views | Chris_ITFC |
It was always the foundation for this season, and beyond. If we go up from here, recruiting proven Championship performers will have been justified.
Discuss. [10 marks]
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| Staying up was never realistic on 12:40 - Apr 21 with 955 views | _CliveBaker_ |
I don't think we were left with much choice really, our scouting network was by our own admission not up to scratch and recruiting proven premier league players as a newly promoted, back to back side was always going to be a tough sell unless we went for older heads. I think the 'strategy' we landed on was more out of necessity, and signing younger players who had done it at Champ level and giving them a PL platform felt sensible to me.
Hutchinson, Delap, Clarke, Greaves, O'Shea. Later Philogene. All good.
My only objection was when we deviated from it with players who were neither young or proven, such as Ogebene & Szmodics. Not being wise after the event but they weren't deals I liked at the time and said as much here, and still aren't now. Ogbene spent most of his career in L1 and the Championship, aside from the Luton spell. Szmodics was late 20's and had a similar career path, coming off his 1 golden season. £15m - £20m isn't small change, and I don't think either were a) better than what we had or b) likely to bridge the seismic gap. To my mind you either invest in youth for tomorrow, or you go the other way and pay big wages on players with 200+ PL apps under their belt for the here and now (like Luton did in Andros Townsend or Ross Barkley) and we tried with Phillips, or a combination of both. Szmodics and Ogbene were neither.
We'll certainly be starting from a higher base if we go up, but we'll need to get the recruitment right in the summer if we're to have any chance of staying there. |  | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 12:53 - Apr 21 with 896 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
If we go up this season it will be justified.
I don't have loads of faith in our recruitment though, I think they have done a pretty bad job this season so if we did go up they would need to massively improve. Hopefully they leave the championship alone. |  |
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| Staying up was never realistic on 13:08 - Apr 21 with 848 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Staying up was never realistic on 12:40 - Apr 21 by _CliveBaker_ |
I don't think we were left with much choice really, our scouting network was by our own admission not up to scratch and recruiting proven premier league players as a newly promoted, back to back side was always going to be a tough sell unless we went for older heads. I think the 'strategy' we landed on was more out of necessity, and signing younger players who had done it at Champ level and giving them a PL platform felt sensible to me.
Hutchinson, Delap, Clarke, Greaves, O'Shea. Later Philogene. All good.
My only objection was when we deviated from it with players who were neither young or proven, such as Ogebene & Szmodics. Not being wise after the event but they weren't deals I liked at the time and said as much here, and still aren't now. Ogbene spent most of his career in L1 and the Championship, aside from the Luton spell. Szmodics was late 20's and had a similar career path, coming off his 1 golden season. £15m - £20m isn't small change, and I don't think either were a) better than what we had or b) likely to bridge the seismic gap. To my mind you either invest in youth for tomorrow, or you go the other way and pay big wages on players with 200+ PL apps under their belt for the here and now (like Luton did in Andros Townsend or Ross Barkley) and we tried with Phillips, or a combination of both. Szmodics and Ogbene were neither.
We'll certainly be starting from a higher base if we go up, but we'll need to get the recruitment right in the summer if we're to have any chance of staying there. |
I think the issue with both is the ‘Premier League tax’, which meant we massively overpaid for players of their age.
Ogbene had been very effective for Luton, but clearly injury (to him and to Wesley) screwed that transfer up.
Szmodics probably adapted to the Premier League better than others we had in his position, and could’ve also been a very good player for us after relegation, but was affected by all sorts of issues - injury, the issues that saw him leave, a bit of luck with one going in off his backside to get him going, but probably most of all, he looked best in the 5-2-3 type system, that we’ve obviously not needed, so he was faced with players much more suited to his two roles (LW/10). He might not be a 20 goal a season man, but he could and should’ve contributed more this season for us. | |
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| Staying up was never realistic on 13:11 - Apr 21 with 832 views | TractorJack |
Swear to god if someone mentions Sunderland... |  | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 13:27 - Apr 21 with 728 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Staying up was never realistic on 13:08 - Apr 21 by Chris_ITFC |
I think the issue with both is the ‘Premier League tax’, which meant we massively overpaid for players of their age.
Ogbene had been very effective for Luton, but clearly injury (to him and to Wesley) screwed that transfer up.
Szmodics probably adapted to the Premier League better than others we had in his position, and could’ve also been a very good player for us after relegation, but was affected by all sorts of issues - injury, the issues that saw him leave, a bit of luck with one going in off his backside to get him going, but probably most of all, he looked best in the 5-2-3 type system, that we’ve obviously not needed, so he was faced with players much more suited to his two roles (LW/10). He might not be a 20 goal a season man, but he could and should’ve contributed more this season for us. |
We certainly paid too much! Ogbene had an OK couple of months for Luton, I don't recall him doing much more than that in the Premier League. They picked him up on a free and along come Ipswich to part with £8m.
Szmodics, again, a handful of good performances for us but by and large has gone nowhere near justifying a £9m fee or whatever it was.
As Championship signings for half that money, fine. No doubt both were unfortunate with injuries but even at the time of signing them I didn't really understand what they were solving for. They were unlikely to have upside sell on potential, and were also unlikely (IMO) to bridge the gap to PL. Just messy signings IMO, even more so when we're bringing players in who suit a role that doesn't exist in our shape.
We have to recruit so much better if we get another chance this summer. | | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 13:58 - Apr 21 with 642 views | Guthrum |
| Staying up was never realistic on 12:40 - Apr 21 by _CliveBaker_ |
I don't think we were left with much choice really, our scouting network was by our own admission not up to scratch and recruiting proven premier league players as a newly promoted, back to back side was always going to be a tough sell unless we went for older heads. I think the 'strategy' we landed on was more out of necessity, and signing younger players who had done it at Champ level and giving them a PL platform felt sensible to me.
Hutchinson, Delap, Clarke, Greaves, O'Shea. Later Philogene. All good.
My only objection was when we deviated from it with players who were neither young or proven, such as Ogebene & Szmodics. Not being wise after the event but they weren't deals I liked at the time and said as much here, and still aren't now. Ogbene spent most of his career in L1 and the Championship, aside from the Luton spell. Szmodics was late 20's and had a similar career path, coming off his 1 golden season. £15m - £20m isn't small change, and I don't think either were a) better than what we had or b) likely to bridge the seismic gap. To my mind you either invest in youth for tomorrow, or you go the other way and pay big wages on players with 200+ PL apps under their belt for the here and now (like Luton did in Andros Townsend or Ross Barkley) and we tried with Phillips, or a combination of both. Szmodics and Ogbene were neither.
We'll certainly be starting from a higher base if we go up, but we'll need to get the recruitment right in the summer if we're to have any chance of staying there. |
I still maintain that our recruitment was also affected by how ITFC was perceived in the summer of 2024. Yes, we had achieved a rare miracle, but Town were also virtually every pundit's favourites to go straight back down again (many saying bottom with record low points).
Seeing that, players - and, more importantly, agents - were inevitably going to be less keen on entertaining approaches from us. Who, other than those out on the fringes (Delap and Phillips at ManC), one who already knew the club (Hutchinson), the relegated (O'Shea, Muric) or ambitious players looking to climb up out of the Champ (Clarke, Szmodics, Greaves) would consider coming to Portman Rd? Established Prem-quality players from even the lower reaches were inevitably going to be better off staying where they were and fighting for their place.
This time around is different, in my view (if we make it). We have some name recognition. We would have shown ourselves capable of bouncing back up. We are no longer a band of oddballs bursting forth from League One. The funding is that much more stable and longer established, with clear future planning (not short-term plunder). |  |
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| Staying up was never realistic on 14:23 - Apr 21 with 584 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Staying up was never realistic on 13:58 - Apr 21 by Guthrum |
I still maintain that our recruitment was also affected by how ITFC was perceived in the summer of 2024. Yes, we had achieved a rare miracle, but Town were also virtually every pundit's favourites to go straight back down again (many saying bottom with record low points).
Seeing that, players - and, more importantly, agents - were inevitably going to be less keen on entertaining approaches from us. Who, other than those out on the fringes (Delap and Phillips at ManC), one who already knew the club (Hutchinson), the relegated (O'Shea, Muric) or ambitious players looking to climb up out of the Champ (Clarke, Szmodics, Greaves) would consider coming to Portman Rd? Established Prem-quality players from even the lower reaches were inevitably going to be better off staying where they were and fighting for their place.
This time around is different, in my view (if we make it). We have some name recognition. We would have shown ourselves capable of bouncing back up. We are no longer a band of oddballs bursting forth from League One. The funding is that much more stable and longer established, with clear future planning (not short-term plunder). |
I’m not convinced it’s that much different. Maybe if we’d won the league, à la Coventry.
I think the main difference is hopefully the learning, experience and time we’ve had from last time. | |
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| Staying up was never realistic on 14:33 - Apr 21 with 545 views | Vaughan8 |
| Staying up was never realistic on 13:11 - Apr 21 by TractorJack |
Swear to god if someone mentions Sunderland... |
Let's see how they do next season first....! |  | | |
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| Staying up was never realistic on 14:56 - Apr 21 with 489 views | ITFC_Forever |
I always said that if we’d stayed up last season it would have been a far greater achievement than the double promotion.
That chart just underlines the point. |  |
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| Staying up was never realistic on 15:46 - Apr 21 with 374 views | cressi |
Being semi competitive would have helped our home record was appalling. | | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 15:47 - Apr 21 with 363 views | HighgateBlue |
| Staying up was never realistic on 13:27 - Apr 21 by _CliveBaker_ |
We certainly paid too much! Ogbene had an OK couple of months for Luton, I don't recall him doing much more than that in the Premier League. They picked him up on a free and along come Ipswich to part with £8m.
Szmodics, again, a handful of good performances for us but by and large has gone nowhere near justifying a £9m fee or whatever it was.
As Championship signings for half that money, fine. No doubt both were unfortunate with injuries but even at the time of signing them I didn't really understand what they were solving for. They were unlikely to have upside sell on potential, and were also unlikely (IMO) to bridge the gap to PL. Just messy signings IMO, even more so when we're bringing players in who suit a role that doesn't exist in our shape.
We have to recruit so much better if we get another chance this summer. |
Agreed all round. Indeed, I would say that whichever division we end up in next season, our recruitment needs to be more consistent than it has been over the last couple of years.
Either that or it can carry on being hit and miss, as long as the hit is one hell of a striker!
Recruiting SS and Akpom, whose main selling points were their respective prolific goalscoring seasons, and then playing them as 10s seemed like an odd move. And, at least as far as SS is concerned, playing him as a 9 in our system was never going to happen, and we never play two up front. So his place in our system was always difficult to work out.
Ogbene had a bad injury. I never really saw a great deal in him, given that we were blessed with Burns at a lower level, but I think an injury like that can just derail a player's time at a club and losses sometimes need to be cut. Not his fault that the seventeen RWs we've signed to replace him have all had their various weaknesses.
So many others where we overpaid, many of whom have been the subject of too many column inches already. If O'Shea and Greaves are our CB partnership for a good few years solid, then the giant fee for the latter will not seem so OTT. That may happen. And they will only improve together. |  | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 15:55 - Apr 21 with 337 views | ElderGrizzly |
Even if we go back up, how do you compete on a level playing field with PSR. Yes, I know that's the point of why big clubs support it. Stopping anyone gatecrashing the party etc
Assuming these figures will be even higher for 2026/2027, we will have another battle just to start on the same line as the rest. |  | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 17:48 - Apr 21 with 221 views | Vaughan8 |
| Staying up was never realistic on 15:55 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
Even if we go back up, how do you compete on a level playing field with PSR. Yes, I know that's the point of why big clubs support it. Stopping anyone gatecrashing the party etc
Assuming these figures will be even higher for 2026/2027, we will have another battle just to start on the same line as the rest. |
I recall a lot of people saying to me "but you've spend £150m" when their clubs spend the best part of £75-100m on one player!
We were massively under resourced for the premier league and unfortunately a lot of our good players are/were getting towards or past their peak. We literally had to buy a whole new team.
No-one takes into account our wage bill though. I'm sure it was the smallest. We couldn't go out and give players £100k+ a week contracts. | | | |
| Staying up was never realistic on 21:15 - Apr 21 with 133 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Staying up was never realistic on 17:48 - Apr 21 by Vaughan8 |
I recall a lot of people saying to me "but you've spend £150m" when their clubs spend the best part of £75-100m on one player!
We were massively under resourced for the premier league and unfortunately a lot of our good players are/were getting towards or past their peak. We literally had to buy a whole new team.
No-one takes into account our wage bill though. I'm sure it was the smallest. We couldn't go out and give players £100k+ a week contracts. |
See the screenshot in the OP - bottom by miles. | |
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