| Throw the book at Saints 06:45 - May 19 with 3443 views | alial |
If the outcome of Spygate 2.0 is a fine and a delayed points deduction, does it really serve as a deterrent going forward?
Rumours are Southampton will receive a 6 point deduction and a £4.5m fine. In comparison to the Leeds and Spygate 1.0 seems sufficient but in the wider context seems a classic case of the punishment being the “cost of doing business” to coin a financial phrase.
For argument sake let’s say Spurs somehow get relegated and next year finish in the play offs. It would be in their interest to do whatever they could to spy on opponents, knowing the punishment will a) not touch the balance sheet and b) will hope not to be in the Championship for a long time. The precedent will be set.
It’s the difference between “the promised land” and £195.5m or a 6 point deduction next season. I think most clubs, whilst not openly admitting it, would take the edge of knowing before a play off game:
- opponents line up (there’s a reason they get released at the same time)
- Any injuries
- Set pieces
- How a team is going to press
- Etc
Some people say “well what about diving, isn’t that cheating?” and yes, it is. But it a different form of cheating. It’s in the moment, it’s not premeditated. Spying on your opponents is premeditated. There’s no plan of “after 17 mins, I am going to take on my defender in the box and then dive” but in terms of Spygate… “We will book you into this hotel, they are training at this time, this is place to watch from…”.
The only deterrent to this happening is removing Southampton out of the play offs. Otherwise it just creates another problem for the EFL the next time this happens. Or they remove this as a rule because they can’t enforce a sufficient punishment.
The reported punishment makes sense if it was in the middle of the season, that is a deterrent. But in the play offs, this is not a deterrent, it’s not a fine… it’s a tax.
I think the book needs to be thrown at Southampton. |  | | |  |
| Throw the book at Saints on 12:46 - May 19 with 709 views | Wacko |
| Throw the book at Saints on 10:18 - May 19 by Guthrum |
That doesn't cancel out the prohibition in Rule 127, which states: "...no Club shall directly or indirectly observe (or attempt to observe) another Club's training session in the period of 72 hours prior to any match scheduled to be played between those respective Clubs."
It's the act of observing which is the offence, not where it takes place. If the images of someone who is apparently a Southampton staff member live-streaming, filming or photographing with his phone are genuine, then it appears to be an open-and-shut case. We can thank Marcelo Bielsa for that.
For that matter, were they on public land (e.g. a footpath), or someone else's private property adjoining the training area? |
True but it just makes it easier to deny they were spying and deny whatever they were doing was in their capacity as a Saints employee. They could’ve been FaceTiming their family and just happened to be in shot of the training pitch…
It was part of a golf club adjacent which is also owned by Steve Gibson | |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 13:12 - May 19 with 634 views | Radlett_blue |
| Throw the book at Saints on 12:36 - May 19 by Vaughan8 |
I suppose my point is, there is so much cheating in football in every game, that seems to be acceptable.
I'm not sure how much was/is gained from viewing training unless teams are setting up completely differently etc. |
Your point is fair, but the FL put in a specific rule about this after Bielsa admitted spying & it seems clear Saints are in breach. A fine seems near pointless as the money for getting to the PL is so huge so chucking them out of the play-offs seems the only sensible outcome. |  |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 13:43 - May 19 with 592 views | Bluespeed225 |
Whens the verdict due? Are they at lunch? Feel for Hull, done their bit V Millwall, just keeping their players warm, unable to prepare for an opponent. meanwhile, Saints have probably got someone up at the Hull training ground figuring they wont get caught again! | | | |
| Throw the book at Saints on 15:22 - May 19 with 534 views | JeremiahBrown |
By the way, the spy was on Private property. I believe it actually said that it was private.
Middlesbrough said that they had been trying out something new to use against Southampton.
I read that the spy had superior technical equipment which could actually hear what was being said at the training ground, as well as videoing it.
Middlesbrough say they have evidence of other clubs being spied on.
I also read that Tonda Eckert used to do the same job as William Salt at a German club, so I definitely think this is his idea, but the question is, how much did the club know about it?
So if it is entirely his doing, he needs a good punishment. If the Club are in on it, then they need punishing also.
I hope they get a good deterrant, otherwise they could just do it again, if it is just a measly fine, which is nothing when they stand to gain a lot if they get promoted.
The meeting started today at 9am online and is still ongoing. It is now thought that we won't hear anything until tomorrow, although Southampton are hoping they will get a steer later today. | | | |
| Throw the book at Saints on 15:37 - May 19 with 491 views | hype313 |
| Throw the book at Saints on 15:22 - May 19 by JeremiahBrown |
By the way, the spy was on Private property. I believe it actually said that it was private.
Middlesbrough said that they had been trying out something new to use against Southampton.
I read that the spy had superior technical equipment which could actually hear what was being said at the training ground, as well as videoing it.
Middlesbrough say they have evidence of other clubs being spied on.
I also read that Tonda Eckert used to do the same job as William Salt at a German club, so I definitely think this is his idea, but the question is, how much did the club know about it?
So if it is entirely his doing, he needs a good punishment. If the Club are in on it, then they need punishing also.
I hope they get a good deterrant, otherwise they could just do it again, if it is just a measly fine, which is nothing when they stand to gain a lot if they get promoted.
The meeting started today at 9am online and is still ongoing. It is now thought that we won't hear anything until tomorrow, although Southampton are hoping they will get a steer later today. |
Can't see them getting kicked out at this stage given 37k tickets have been sold, even though it's the right thing to do.
They'll get a hefty fine and points deduction and maybe Tonda gets the sack.
If that happens Steve Gibson will create hell and high water. |  |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 16:19 - May 19 with 420 views | Ryorry |
| Throw the book at Saints on 13:43 - May 19 by Bluespeed225 |
Whens the verdict due? Are they at lunch? Feel for Hull, done their bit V Millwall, just keeping their players warm, unable to prepare for an opponent. meanwhile, Saints have probably got someone up at the Hull training ground figuring they wont get caught again! |
Could drag on a into Weds according to the BBC Sports website - and then soton have the right to appeal, which ‘Boro don’t - absolutely ridiculous, even now soton are being gifted the advantage by the authorities. |  |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 16:23 - May 19 with 386 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Throw the book at Saints on 16:19 - May 19 by Ryorry |
Could drag on a into Weds according to the BBC Sports website - and then soton have the right to appeal, which ‘Boro don’t - absolutely ridiculous, even now soton are being gifted the advantage by the authorities. |
I think i understand why boro aren't involved. The charge won't be southamton v boro, it'll be southampton v the efl,
boro could i suppose depending on the outcome, take their own legal advice against the efl? |  |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 16:23 - May 19 with 385 views | hype313 |
| Throw the book at Saints on 16:19 - May 19 by Ryorry |
Could drag on a into Weds according to the BBC Sports website - and then soton have the right to appeal, which ‘Boro don’t - absolutely ridiculous, even now soton are being gifted the advantage by the authorities. |
I don't understand, Southampton by all accounts will plead guilty, so how can they then appeal any decision, or are they only going to appeal if it results in removal from play off's...
The whole thing stinks, the Independent panel won't kick them out, they won't have the minerals to do it.
I wonder if Gibson has something up his sleeve in preparation for the inevitable flaky charge. | |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 16:36 - May 19 with 327 views | Radlett_blue |
| Throw the book at Saints on 16:23 - May 19 by hype313 |
I don't understand, Southampton by all accounts will plead guilty, so how can they then appeal any decision, or are they only going to appeal if it results in removal from play off's...
The whole thing stinks, the Independent panel won't kick them out, they won't have the minerals to do it.
I wonder if Gibson has something up his sleeve in preparation for the inevitable flaky charge. |
I believe you can appeal on the basis that the sentence is too grave, rather than trying to overturn the verdict. But you usually have to have a valid reason for an appeal, not just because you don't like the verdict.
That Saints were breaking the rules seems like an open & shut case, but the punishment might depend on how many people at the club were involved or knew about it & also whether this was a 1-off or one of several undiscovered episodes. | |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 16:43 - May 19 with 284 views | hype313 |
| Throw the book at Saints on 16:36 - May 19 by Radlett_blue |
I believe you can appeal on the basis that the sentence is too grave, rather than trying to overturn the verdict. But you usually have to have a valid reason for an appeal, not just because you don't like the verdict.
That Saints were breaking the rules seems like an open & shut case, but the punishment might depend on how many people at the club were involved or knew about it & also whether this was a 1-off or one of several undiscovered episodes. |
I think your last sentence is key, if it was a one off, then a hefty fine and points deduction would be the line, if it transpires it has been systemic over the past 6 months then they do have a serious problem. | |
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| Throw the book at Saints on 16:53 - May 19 with 249 views | Ryorry |
| Throw the book at Saints on 16:43 - May 19 by hype313 |
I think your last sentence is key, if it was a one off, then a hefty fine and points deduction would be the line, if it transpires it has been systemic over the past 6 months then they do have a serious problem. |
Nevertheless, I've a horrible feeling that the EFL will make the punishment a lighter one than might otherwise have been purely because they're running out of time & there's no wriggle-room, so they can't risk an appeal being made.
Soton should never have been allowed that ridiculous pure stalling manoeuvre of time to conduct an internal investigation, which was completely unjustified unless there was some kind of legal requirement for it. | |
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