| Bringing it all together 07:51 - Jun 4 with 926 views | NthQldITFC |
If TWTD were representative of the human race, planet wide, and if 100 of us read this and voted honestly on "Do you want this future for yourself and your children?" I think 95% of us would say "YES! Please, please, yes!"
https://www.theguardian.com/en
'Humanity can raise living standards, reduce inequality and keep global heating within a 2C rise, according to a sweeping vision for planetary survival.'
'At its core is the concept of sufficiency – the idea that people can enjoy a prosperous, healthy life without constantly striving to consume or accumulate more material possessions that degrade the natural world on which all life depends.'
'The ideology, which we see with Trump and all the little Trumps that we have all across Europe and all across the world is simply not going to deliver. At the end of the day we’ll have to come to this kind of cooperative redistribution of resources and power because the alternative will simply lead to disastrous outcomes both on the environment, on the climate, but also on social grounds.'
This is the inescapable, data-driven reality of the situation we and our children face.
It's pretty much akin to a suicidal madness if this sort of humanity-wide approach isn't adopted, and adopted very, very soon.
There was a time when the world would have responded in a mature and constructive way to the imminent collapse of its primary system - voracious, mind-numbing consumerism has dulled us, but we're not quite beyond hope.
Think beyond your "get as much as I can and don't think about the future" attitude, and actually demonstrate that you're willing to put up a fight for the future - Give our leaders a democratic mandate to make the necessary changes.
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| Bringing it all together on 08:59 - Jun 4 with 805 views | Ryorry |
Not read the article yet (later), but people aren’t going to give up their next gen smart devices anytime soon methinks.
Ironically, it’s through them of course that such ideas can be shared so widely around the planet. |  |
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| Bringing it all together on 09:53 - Jun 4 with 724 views | Coastalblue |
Sadly I think your 95% is way out, for too many all that matters is how will it affect me now, and maybe tomorrow. |  |
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| Bringing it all together on 10:13 - Jun 4 with 679 views | NthQldITFC |
| Bringing it all together on 09:53 - Jun 4 by Coastalblue |
Sadly I think your 95% is way out, for too many all that matters is how will it affect me now, and maybe tomorrow. |
Yes, you're probably right.
I would have thought that most who have children (or are intending to have children) so long as they are not completely uninformed on climate change and social breakdown would desperately want this kind of fundamental change.
I mean, desperately.
That would be a biologically rational response. Overridden, I suppose, by two things:
1. Selfishness, as you say.
2. Fear and an unwillingness to face that fear.
That's why it's so important to keep having these discussions, because both of those things can be overcome. | |
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| Bringing it all together on 10:16 - Jun 4 with 672 views | NthQldITFC |
| Bringing it all together on 09:53 - Jun 4 by Coastalblue |
Sadly I think your 95% is way out, for too many all that matters is how will it affect me now, and maybe tomorrow. |
The odd thing is, perhaps 80 or 90% of as would actually be better off even in the conventional, materialistic sense.
But we're so simultaneously bewitched and dulled by the dogma of consumerism and the horrifically flawed, cold war GDP metric of aggressive capitalism.
Madness. | |
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| Bringing it all together on 11:27 - Jun 4 with 592 views | Coastalblue |
| Bringing it all together on 10:16 - Jun 4 by NthQldITFC |
The odd thing is, perhaps 80 or 90% of as would actually be better off even in the conventional, materialistic sense.
But we're so simultaneously bewitched and dulled by the dogma of consumerism and the horrifically flawed, cold war GDP metric of aggressive capitalism.
Madness. |
It's crazy, seems to be the current global pandemic, turkeys voting for Christmas the world over.
I used to think perhaps there would be some catastrophic world event that would be like seeing the scales drop from people's eyes, instead it seems to be pull up the ladder if you can still put food on the table. | |
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| Bringing it all together on 13:47 - Jun 4 with 515 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Bringing it all together on 10:16 - Jun 4 by NthQldITFC |
The odd thing is, perhaps 80 or 90% of as would actually be better off even in the conventional, materialistic sense.
But we're so simultaneously bewitched and dulled by the dogma of consumerism and the horrifically flawed, cold war GDP metric of aggressive capitalism.
Madness. |
GDP has nothing to do with aggressive consumerism it’s simply a measure of output. It also includes government spending, and the public services that make the country function (almost half of UK GDP). If you want to cut waste, have better public services, and improve the environment and quality of life then you should be in favour of greater productivity. [Post edited 4 Jun 13:49]
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| Bringing it all together on 16:39 - Jun 4 with 426 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Bringing it all together on 10:16 - Jun 4 by NthQldITFC |
The odd thing is, perhaps 80 or 90% of as would actually be better off even in the conventional, materialistic sense.
But we're so simultaneously bewitched and dulled by the dogma of consumerism and the horrifically flawed, cold war GDP metric of aggressive capitalism.
Madness. |
I agree with that. I’m pretty sure far could people could benefit than would support a vision like that. Which is madness indeed. We see it all the time in other examples.
(I assume it’s Monbiot? I can’t see it - in a crap internet are that is handling TWTD but not the Gurniad). |  |
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| Bringing it all together on 17:04 - Jun 4 with 406 views | CoachRob |
Goodness, isn't that the antidote to the endless drivel about productivity from the usual space cadets who put such a narrow boundary on the system it is nothing more than a joke analysis.
What does the disconnect look like between economists and climate scientists?
“Our expert elicitation reveals a fundamental disconnect: climate scientists understand that beyond 2°C, we’re not dealing with manageable economic adjustments. The climate scientists we surveyed were unambiguous: current economic models systematically underestimate climate damages because they can’t capture what matters most – the cascading failures, threshold effects, and compounding shocks that define climate risk in a warmer world and could undermine the very foundations of economic growth.
For financial institutions and policymakers relying on these models, this isn’t a technical problem – it’s a fundamental misreading of the risks we face, which current models miss entirely because they assume the future will behave like the past, even as we push the climate system into uncharted territory.” Jesse Abrams, University of Exeter
https://news.exeter.ac.uk/facu
Successive governments including the current one can't even be bothered to listen to its' own CCC on climate adaptation which released a report last week. This will further weaken the idea of green growth.
https://www.theccc.org.uk/publ
It really comes down to whether you accept we are in a mess and have to change drastically or whether you believe the economists who have a track record that is unrivalled in any academic discipline I can think of - and not in a good way. |  |
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| Bringing it all together on 17:36 - Jun 4 with 373 views | NthQldITFC |
| Bringing it all together on 13:47 - Jun 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
GDP has nothing to do with aggressive consumerism it’s simply a measure of output. It also includes government spending, and the public services that make the country function (almost half of UK GDP). If you want to cut waste, have better public services, and improve the environment and quality of life then you should be in favour of greater productivity. [Post edited 4 Jun 13:49]
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What I meant was that GDP (as I understand it anyway) was essentially a Cold War era arms race metric, a massively blunt instrument interested only in monetary value, but which drives aggressive capitalism and ignores such variables as health of the populace, health of the environment, and happiness - all of which are far more meaningful and important. Because they are real. | |
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| Bringing it all together on 18:45 - Jun 4 with 344 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Bringing it all together on 17:36 - Jun 4 by NthQldITFC |
What I meant was that GDP (as I understand it anyway) was essentially a Cold War era arms race metric, a massively blunt instrument interested only in monetary value, but which drives aggressive capitalism and ignores such variables as health of the populace, health of the environment, and happiness - all of which are far more meaningful and important. Because they are real. |
I get where you are coming from, but it’s a fairly meaningless metric, it really just measures the size of an economy, it has zero relevance to wealth or success of a country. The UK has a larger economy than all but Germany in Western Europe, but certainly isn’t more affluent. As I say things like the healthcare system form part of that measurement, places like Scandinavia for example state spending will form an even higher percentage of GDP. I don’t think any serious economist will assess the health of an economy by its size, it’s purely a measurement of output. | | | |
| Bringing it all together on 00:36 - Jun 5 with 274 views | armchaircritic59 |
All very sensible and very largely true, I know it, you know it and no doubt many others do to. But reading about it and actually doing it are, as I think we all know, very different things. I expect the time may well come when the human race has little choice, but while the choice is still there the great majority will just live as they've always lived. Sad to say until that judgement day arrives, it will always be " somebody else's problem ". |  | | |
| Bringing it all together on 07:18 - Jun 5 with 203 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Bringing it all together on 17:36 - Jun 4 by NthQldITFC |
What I meant was that GDP (as I understand it anyway) was essentially a Cold War era arms race metric, a massively blunt instrument interested only in monetary value, but which drives aggressive capitalism and ignores such variables as health of the populace, health of the environment, and happiness - all of which are far more meaningful and important. Because they are real. |
I think a good example of why GDP is fairly meaningless -Russia. They’ve posted some ‘growth’ but in reality none of it is coming from private enterprise or commerce, it’s entirely driven by defence spending and repurposing commercial production to shells, drones, and munitions. Meanwhile the economy is in a dreadful state with low wages, rampant inflation, and interest rates of 15pc.
They’ve also got a coming demographic crisis once their invasion of Ukraine ends. | | | |
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