| Outbound loans 16:02 - Aug 5 with 1736 views | _CliveBaker_ |
I don't like them. Understandable with young players, but as an alternative to a sale I'm not a fan. I'm sure it ultimately comes down to what's preferable financially and what works for the buying club, and makes little difference day to day, but I don't like it. I prefer a clean cut.
Its the football equivalent of staying together for the dog. |  | | |  |
| Outbound loans on 16:08 - Aug 5 with 1689 views | PhilTWTD |
Wages are an issue in our position. Players will have had their wages boosted by promotion, so will be beyond what Championship clubs are willing or in most cases able to pay. Hence, a loan with an obligation once their contract has run down another year. |  | | |
| Outbound loans on 16:11 - Aug 5 with 1613 views | BloomBlue |
I think its circumstances and time limits.
The other clubs will know we have to lose some players from the squad, if not we're basically paying them to do nothing. That then becomes a bit of a buyers market.
We either say no, we want a permanent deal, and they refuse and we're in the above situation. Whereas a loan with an obligation takes the wage bill (or maybe some of it) off our books and a potential sale income next season.
Its the pure loan only I don't like, but if we're nearing the window end I think we'll see one or two of those. |  | | |
| Outbound loans on 16:14 - Aug 5 with 1564 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Outbound loans on 16:08 - Aug 5 by PhilTWTD |
Wages are an issue in our position. Players will have had their wages boosted by promotion, so will be beyond what Championship clubs are willing or in most cases able to pay. Hence, a loan with an obligation once their contract has run down another year. |
Yeah that's always going to be a challenge until players get to the last year of the contract etc and its easier to justify stepping away from 1 year for 2 years elsewhere etc. | | | |
| Outbound loans on 16:16 - Aug 5 with 1537 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Outbound loans on 16:11 - Aug 5 by BloomBlue |
I think its circumstances and time limits.
The other clubs will know we have to lose some players from the squad, if not we're basically paying them to do nothing. That then becomes a bit of a buyers market.
We either say no, we want a permanent deal, and they refuse and we're in the above situation. Whereas a loan with an obligation takes the wage bill (or maybe some of it) off our books and a potential sale income next season.
Its the pure loan only I don't like, but if we're nearing the window end I think we'll see one or two of those. |
I think ultimately with those it just becomes a question of what's the best (or least worst) financial outcome when considering loan fees / wages / amortisation etc.
As Phil says those with a couple of years left on their PL contracts aren't going to give them up for a lower salary. | | | |
| Outbound loans on 16:52 - Aug 5 with 1342 views | Wakh |
| Outbound loans on 16:11 - Aug 5 by BloomBlue |
I think its circumstances and time limits.
The other clubs will know we have to lose some players from the squad, if not we're basically paying them to do nothing. That then becomes a bit of a buyers market.
We either say no, we want a permanent deal, and they refuse and we're in the above situation. Whereas a loan with an obligation takes the wage bill (or maybe some of it) off our books and a potential sale income next season.
Its the pure loan only I don't like, but if we're nearing the window end I think we'll see one or two of those. |
Book profit is important to what we can spend. As well as wages a loan sees another year of amortisation aged. That means when we do sell there is a book profit. |  | | |
| Outbound loans on 17:00 - Aug 5 with 1301 views | surreyblue |
| Outbound loans on 16:08 - Aug 5 by PhilTWTD |
Wages are an issue in our position. Players will have had their wages boosted by promotion, so will be beyond what Championship clubs are willing or in most cases able to pay. Hence, a loan with an obligation once their contract has run down another year. |
Will all players have the same promotion bonus in their contract? It feels like it would be sensible for there to be some degree of caveat around it - i.e. a graded increase depending on appearances, or not applying for anyone who was out on loan for some/all of the season. | | | |
| Outbound loans on 17:02 - Aug 5 with 1282 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Outbound loans on 16:52 - Aug 5 by Wakh |
Book profit is important to what we can spend. As well as wages a loan sees another year of amortisation aged. That means when we do sell there is a book profit. |
Often doesn't make as much difference as people think though, only really relevant in year if the loss on disposal is higher than 1 years amortisation.
Eg. saw some people saying we didn't want to sell Szmodics for £2.7m this summer because there's £4.5m left on his book value, and therefore it would be a £1.8m hit to SCR. While true, we're on the hook for £2.25m of amortisation this year anyway if we don't sell him. So we would need a £450k+ loan fee to be net better off in the 26/27 accounts*
*assuming contribution to his wage this season is consistent. | | | |
| Outbound loans on 17:03 - Aug 5 with 1282 views | Trequartista |
| Outbound loans on 16:08 - Aug 5 by PhilTWTD |
Wages are an issue in our position. Players will have had their wages boosted by promotion, so will be beyond what Championship clubs are willing or in most cases able to pay. Hence, a loan with an obligation once their contract has run down another year. |
I presume with an obligation to buy deal, like for example Sammie Szmodics, he has already signed a contract with Derby from 2027 onwards and the fee to Ipswich is guaranteed, so the reason it is not a full transfer is that we pay part of his wages this season.
Would it not be easier or clearer to make the transfer now and just pay him a lump sum for the excess wages? Or deduct it from the transfer fee and Derby pay him his Ipswich wage for a year? |  |
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| Outbound loans on 20:34 - Aug 5 with 874 views | Wakh |
| Outbound loans on 17:02 - Aug 5 by _CliveBaker_ |
Often doesn't make as much difference as people think though, only really relevant in year if the loss on disposal is higher than 1 years amortisation.
Eg. saw some people saying we didn't want to sell Szmodics for £2.7m this summer because there's £4.5m left on his book value, and therefore it would be a £1.8m hit to SCR. While true, we're on the hook for £2.25m of amortisation this year anyway if we don't sell him. So we would need a £450k+ loan fee to be net better off in the 26/27 accounts*
*assuming contribution to his wage this season is consistent. |
Amortisation is being lost anyway. As a company we lose it; it’s part of the running costs of the club, like depreciation on a truck to a haulage company. From a business PIV you are right. From a player trading and what we can spend book profit is important. | | | |
| Outbound loans on 20:43 - Aug 5 with 824 views | Swansea_Blue |
What about giving development opportunities to young players that we want to develop? It seems perfect for that. |  |
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| Outbound loans on 21:00 - Aug 5 with 749 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Outbound loans on 20:34 - Aug 5 by Wakh |
Amortisation is being lost anyway. As a company we lose it; it’s part of the running costs of the club, like depreciation on a truck to a haulage company. From a business PIV you are right. From a player trading and what we can spend book profit is important. |
Yes it’s important as it’s included in the calculation when considering player costs as a % of revenue under the rules. The sale falls into revenue, and the amortisation in the costs, as salaries do. That’s now capped at 85% (+30%, so effectively 115%). Becomes quite formulaic at that point but ultimately if the sale price is higher than the book value it’s a net benefit, irrespective of what was paid initially. Doesn’t mean it’s good business in real life of course, but from a profit & sustainability calculation it’s an important consideration. | | | |
| Outbound loans on 21:19 - Aug 5 with 685 views | PhilTWTD |
| Outbound loans on 17:00 - Aug 5 by surreyblue |
Will all players have the same promotion bonus in their contract? It feels like it would be sensible for there to be some degree of caveat around it - i.e. a graded increase depending on appearances, or not applying for anyone who was out on loan for some/all of the season. |
Seems not. I know Freddie Ladapo had a big raise two years ago and he'd been on loan for that season. | | | |
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