| Why are there so many "religious" players now? 13:31 - Sep 13 with 9599 views | Meadowlark |
Do any of our players point to the sky when they walk on to the pitch?
Ive just been watching MOTD and there's quite a lot of this nonsense.
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:25 - Sep 15 with 590 views | WeWereZombies |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:19 - Sep 15 by Dyland |
Agnosticism is closer to religious belief than atheism imo. I say closer, rather than the same.
Agnosticism is traditionally the position that we cannot truly know. Atheism, as discussed, is the rejection of belief in god/s based on a lack of evidence or faith. Atheists don't reject the possibility there are gods.
Agnosticism in the old sense of the term probably isn't so common these days and most 'non-believers' or people who are unsure are actually atheists even though they may not feel comfortable with the term.
People will disagree with me obviously. This is largely a semantic and etymological discussion. Which is cool. And anyway, I'm just a humanist innit. |
I did a short course on Humanism but decided not to progress it any further, it was getting in the way of my misanthropy... |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 11:41 - Sep 15 with 514 views | mellowblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:23 - Sep 15 by iamatractorboy |
Purely anecdotal this, but I have certainly met some Christians who believed they were morally superior. I went to a wedding once and was told, whilst listening to the groom's speech, believe it or not, that anyone who didn't share his belief in the Almighty was going to burn for eternity. I'm not joking. I nearly got up amd walked out in the middle of his speech. |
christianity, away from the good old dull Catholic/c of e stance can be a bit extreme, particularly some of the "chapel" type christians e.g calvinist, plymouth bretheren type approach and it is probably pretty fundamentalist in the US. Very keen on people burning in hell if you don't follow the line. TBH you can't be a true Christian and feel yourself morally superior, maybe it can be said as a joke, but if you believe it , it goes against the whole crux of "the meek will inherit the world". |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 12:22 - Sep 15 with 487 views | baxterbasics |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:56 - Sep 15 with 427 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 11:41 - Sep 15 by mellowblue |
christianity, away from the good old dull Catholic/c of e stance can be a bit extreme, particularly some of the "chapel" type christians e.g calvinist, plymouth bretheren type approach and it is probably pretty fundamentalist in the US. Very keen on people burning in hell if you don't follow the line. TBH you can't be a true Christian and feel yourself morally superior, maybe it can be said as a joke, but if you believe it , it goes against the whole crux of "the meek will inherit the world". |
“TBH you can't be a true Christian and feel yourself morally superior”.
But that was exactly what I was saying (or trying to anyway) and you kept denying! |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:09 - Sep 15 with 407 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:19 - Sep 15 by Dyland |
Agnosticism is closer to religious belief than atheism imo. I say closer, rather than the same.
Agnosticism is traditionally the position that we cannot truly know. Atheism, as discussed, is the rejection of belief in god/s based on a lack of evidence or faith. Atheists don't reject the possibility there are gods.
Agnosticism in the old sense of the term probably isn't so common these days and most 'non-believers' or people who are unsure are actually atheists even though they may not feel comfortable with the term.
People will disagree with me obviously. This is largely a semantic and etymological discussion. Which is cool. And anyway, I'm just a humanist innit. |
Amazing that the discussion got to 8 pages before anyone mentioned humanism -I’d forgotten about it, but thanks for the reminder that I probably am one, rather than atheist or agnostic (unless you count a belief in Mother Nature as agnosticism!). | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:13 - Sep 15 with 399 views | leitrimblue |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 11:41 - Sep 15 by mellowblue |
christianity, away from the good old dull Catholic/c of e stance can be a bit extreme, particularly some of the "chapel" type christians e.g calvinist, plymouth bretheren type approach and it is probably pretty fundamentalist in the US. Very keen on people burning in hell if you don't follow the line. TBH you can't be a true Christian and feel yourself morally superior, maybe it can be said as a joke, but if you believe it , it goes against the whole crux of "the meek will inherit the world". |
Who is this Greek? And why does he deserve to inherit the earth? |  | | |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:47 - Sep 15 with 363 views | Vic |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 20:56 - Sep 14 by Ryorry |
I have every reason to "behave myself" thanks - I find treating others as I'd like to be treated myself, and a bit of imagination/empathy, quite sufficient - don't need a historical figure or myths about an afterlife or whatever to persuade me! |
Interesting that treating others like we'd like them to trust us is something straight out of Jesus mouth, which he took from the instructions God gVe to 'his people' way back when he'd just rescued them from Egypt. Not many, if any, cultures had that in their locker.
Its a perfect illustration of how the Judeo/christian principles undergird so much of what we just takes for granted as traditiobal western culture, which is the thesis of historian Tom Holland's book 'Dominion'. |  |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:53 - Sep 15 with 356 views | Vic |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 08:23 - Sep 15 by iamatractorboy |
Purely anecdotal this, but I have certainly met some Christians who believed they were morally superior. I went to a wedding once and was told, whilst listening to the groom's speech, believe it or not, that anyone who didn't share his belief in the Almighty was going to burn for eternity. I'm not joking. I nearly got up amd walked out in the middle of his speech. |
Going by comments I hear and read on here and elsewhere I say that there is also a decent amount of moral superiority among non believers too. Thankfully the trope of the new atheists that believers do no not deserve respect seems to be disappearing. That idea was as insultingly superior in tone, in my opinion, as anything that has come out of the mouth of religious people. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:15 - Sep 15 with 331 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:47 - Sep 15 by Vic |
Interesting that treating others like we'd like them to trust us is something straight out of Jesus mouth, which he took from the instructions God gVe to 'his people' way back when he'd just rescued them from Egypt. Not many, if any, cultures had that in their locker.
Its a perfect illustration of how the Judeo/christian principles undergird so much of what we just takes for granted as traditiobal western culture, which is the thesis of historian Tom Holland's book 'Dominion'. |
Totally agree though I cringe a little over the use of the often parroted term "Judeo-Christian" when talking about principles and values. Jesus Christ doesn't have the same standing in Judaism as He has in Christianity (obviously) and the term has generally become a way to split one of the Abrahamic religions from the club for political reasons. The term appeals to a brand of Christians who long for a return of the Crusades as opposed to one which is peaceful, loving and Godly.
BTW, has this thread now fully moved to non-football yet? |  |
| FREE PALASTINE FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. FREE LEBANON FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. FREE IRAN FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:18 - Sep 15 with 329 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 13:56 - Sep 15 by Ryorry |
“TBH you can't be a true Christian and feel yourself morally superior”.
But that was exactly what I was saying (or trying to anyway) and you kept denying! |
Who determines what a true Christian is?
Is it someone who literally follows what is written in the bible? If not who decides which bits to ignore?
In one true scotsman fallacy territory here. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:22 - Sep 15 with 319 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:47 - Sep 15 by Vic |
Interesting that treating others like we'd like them to trust us is something straight out of Jesus mouth, which he took from the instructions God gVe to 'his people' way back when he'd just rescued them from Egypt. Not many, if any, cultures had that in their locker.
Its a perfect illustration of how the Judeo/christian principles undergird so much of what we just takes for granted as traditiobal western culture, which is the thesis of historian Tom Holland's book 'Dominion'. |
The golden rule is recorded as being a thing in ancient China long before Jesus. Confucius... [Post edited 15 Sep 15:33]
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:27 - Sep 15 with 309 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:47 - Sep 15 by Vic |
Interesting that treating others like we'd like them to trust us is something straight out of Jesus mouth, which he took from the instructions God gVe to 'his people' way back when he'd just rescued them from Egypt. Not many, if any, cultures had that in their locker.
Its a perfect illustration of how the Judeo/christian principles undergird so much of what we just takes for granted as traditiobal western culture, which is the thesis of historian Tom Holland's book 'Dominion'. |
I can assure you my belief on this came entirely from myself, & had nothing whatsoever to do with any religion - I'd never even heard it mentioned as a religious belief until you posted it just now. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:36 - Sep 15 with 290 views | Ryorry |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 14:53 - Sep 15 by Vic |
Going by comments I hear and read on here and elsewhere I say that there is also a decent amount of moral superiority among non believers too. Thankfully the trope of the new atheists that believers do no not deserve respect seems to be disappearing. That idea was as insultingly superior in tone, in my opinion, as anything that has come out of the mouth of religious people. |
If you take veganism as an example, the difference is that veganism (or whatever other non-religious example) doesn't run state schools, have official holidays that are recognised world-wide, have upper house Parliamentary membership for its senior leaders, isn't afforded special status or respect etc etc.
I think some people on the thread aren't recognising the completely different status that religion is given - not just in the UK, but globally. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:47 - Sep 15 with 265 views | Vic |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:27 - Sep 15 by Ryorry |
I can assure you my belief on this came entirely from myself, & had nothing whatsoever to do with any religion - I'd never even heard it mentioned as a religious belief until you posted it just now. |
Which is exactly my point really  . This stuff is like the air we breathe - so much part of life we dont even realise it. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:53 - Sep 15 with 252 views | Vic |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:22 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart |
The golden rule is recorded as being a thing in ancient China long before Jesus. Confucius... [Post edited 15 Sep 15:33]
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Confucius dates from 5 centuries BCE. The Hebrew origins go back 2000BCE, and start with the giving g of the '10 commands' which Moses received to govern the life of the newly formed sraelite nation. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:28 - Sep 15 with 219 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:18 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart |
Who determines what a true Christian is?
Is it someone who literally follows what is written in the bible? If not who decides which bits to ignore?
In one true scotsman fallacy territory here. |
christian means follower of christ. when asked to sum up the most important thing, he said "love god, love others".
so guess that's the prism through which everything else should get filtered | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:50 - Sep 15 with 202 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 15:53 - Sep 15 by Vic |
Confucius dates from 5 centuries BCE. The Hebrew origins go back 2000BCE, and start with the giving g of the '10 commands' which Moses received to govern the life of the newly formed sraelite nation. |
You said it was from Jesus mouth. It is quite clear that the concept is not unique to Christendom and was well established 500 years earlier independently.
Is there an earlier reference? The Jewish references seem to be later but I cannot claim to have investigated thoroughly. It makes no difference to the essential point either way. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:50 - Sep 15 with 200 views | baxterbasics |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:28 - Sep 15 by positivity |
christian means follower of christ. when asked to sum up the most important thing, he said "love god, love others".
so guess that's the prism through which everything else should get filtered |
"Love thy neighbour as thyself" and I quite appreciate the implication that we should indeed love ourselves too, or at least that it's ok to love yourself so long as you love your neighbour just as much! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:58 - Sep 15 with 191 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:28 - Sep 15 by positivity |
christian means follower of christ. when asked to sum up the most important thing, he said "love god, love others".
so guess that's the prism through which everything else should get filtered |
Great. But arguably vague😊 | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:01 - Sep 15 with 188 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:58 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart |
Great. But arguably vague😊 |
how specific do you want to get in 4 words?
undeniably a better way to live your life than "hate god, hate others"! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:07 - Sep 15 with 179 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:01 - Sep 15 by positivity |
how specific do you want to get in 4 words?
undeniably a better way to live your life than "hate god, hate others"! |
Not sure I can use it to identify genuine Christians. Some would say that loving others includes giving them conversion therapy... | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:10 - Sep 15 with 174 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:07 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart |
Not sure I can use it to identify genuine Christians. Some would say that loving others includes giving them conversion therapy... |
is that loving?
doesn't sound like it, so doesn't sound like they're behaving like "genuine" christians
why are you so keen to identify "genuine christians"? are you also keen to identify "genuine muslims"? "genuine agnostics"? don't understand your point here [Post edited 15 Sep 17:27]
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:48 - Sep 15 with 141 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:10 - Sep 15 by positivity |
is that loving?
doesn't sound like it, so doesn't sound like they're behaving like "genuine" christians
why are you so keen to identify "genuine christians"? are you also keen to identify "genuine muslims"? "genuine agnostics"? don't understand your point here [Post edited 15 Sep 17:27]
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They'd say it was. Because it can save them from sin and avoid eternal damnation. Which rather illustrates the issue!
I'm not especially keen to identify genuine Christians. Its a response to people who say 'well true Christians do X or believe Y'. In order to disassociate the religion from behaviour and beliefs which are problematic. As we have seen above. | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:55 - Sep 15 with 125 views | positivity |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:48 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart |
They'd say it was. Because it can save them from sin and avoid eternal damnation. Which rather illustrates the issue!
I'm not especially keen to identify genuine Christians. Its a response to people who say 'well true Christians do X or believe Y'. In order to disassociate the religion from behaviour and beliefs which are problematic. As we have seen above. |
ok, i think christians (followers of christ) would follow his teachings.
if they go against that, that may give a clue as to their genuinality!
people are free to claim anything; tony blair claimed to be a socialist, delia smith claimed to be a town fan, nigel farage claimed not to be racist. doesn't mean all socialists/town fans/anti-racists should be tarred with the same brush! | |
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| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 17:59 - Sep 15 with 120 views | Vic |
| Why are there so many "religious" players now? on 16:50 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart |
You said it was from Jesus mouth. It is quite clear that the concept is not unique to Christendom and was well established 500 years earlier independently.
Is there an earlier reference? The Jewish references seem to be later but I cannot claim to have investigated thoroughly. It makes no difference to the essential point either way. |
When Jesus said this he said he was summarising the rules that had governed the Jewish people for the 1500yrs since their inception as a nation.
The Bible ref to Jesus saying this is Matthew 7v12 | |
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