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Thank you for posting this. For anyone interested 15th September is Battle of Britain (BoB) day. The BoB was a series of attacks with the main aim of air superiority forcing Britain to political surrender or preparing the way for invasion - operation Sealion. I cannot see how the latter could been achieved but nobody thought that at the time after the Battle of France disaster.
Starting in July there were three phases. Shutting the Channel and drawing fighters into combat - achieved. Secondly the destruction of the RAF on the ground and in the air. This was not achieved though thanks to dreadful intelligence and politics, the Germans didn’t know it.
On 7th September, thanks to mistakes by a Luftwaffe crew accidentally bombing London (expressly banned) RAF bombed Berlin, enraged Hitler and the German Airforce turned to retaliation to shred population morale, destroy facilities and surrounding areas and draw what they thought was the remains of fighter command into final destruction.
But the RAF, though tired and short of pilots, was in better shape than the Luftwaffe and far from beaten thanks to superb management by Dowding and 11 Group commander Park. Initially, the first London raid on 7 Sept took the RAF by surprise. After that, it didn’t.
By the end of 15th September the Germans were confused and dispirited. The bob was effectively won though ops would continue through the autumn followed by the night Blitz. They were getting nowhere and realised the RAF was far from finished, helped by from 12 Group the appearance of Bader’s Big Wing, if not its effectiveness.
Two famous incidents. The falling of a Dornier 17Z onto Victoria station and Wilton Rd. Its tail was cut off but Hurricane pilot Ray Holmes and it was filmed tumbling down. Holmes’ Hurricane fell not to far away and Ray survived minus his flying boots and in his pyjamas. One of the Dornier crew survived. The pilot Robert Zehbe also bailed out but was attacked by housewives when he landed with anything they could get their hands on and died of his injuries.
The second well known incident is the Dornier that came down near Shoreham Kent. The pilot Feldwebel Heitsch had hitched up a flamethrower in the tail as a deterrent/defence. Apart from lobbing oil over Ray Holmes Hurricane all it did was attract Spitfires and Hurricanes that thought it damaged and easy meat.
It was attacked over and over and finished up being bullet riddled and chased down Darent Valley by two Spitfires (Flt Lt Dundas and PO Tobin) on half an engine. I know where he crash landed. How he managed it I’ll never know. He and two of his crew survived. The fourth died at the scene despite the efforts of Heitch (who was a doctor) and the local emergency services. There are plenty of pictures of the crash scene.
Away from my musings. 15th September was a key date in the chain of events called the Battle of Britain. It’s as good as any for it and to me, important.
Thank you for posting this. For anyone interested 15th September is Battle of Britain (BoB) day. The BoB was a series of attacks with the main aim of air superiority forcing Britain to political surrender or preparing the way for invasion - operation Sealion. I cannot see how the latter could been achieved but nobody thought that at the time after the Battle of France disaster.
Starting in July there were three phases. Shutting the Channel and drawing fighters into combat - achieved. Secondly the destruction of the RAF on the ground and in the air. This was not achieved though thanks to dreadful intelligence and politics, the Germans didn’t know it.
On 7th September, thanks to mistakes by a Luftwaffe crew accidentally bombing London (expressly banned) RAF bombed Berlin, enraged Hitler and the German Airforce turned to retaliation to shred population morale, destroy facilities and surrounding areas and draw what they thought was the remains of fighter command into final destruction.
But the RAF, though tired and short of pilots, was in better shape than the Luftwaffe and far from beaten thanks to superb management by Dowding and 11 Group commander Park. Initially, the first London raid on 7 Sept took the RAF by surprise. After that, it didn’t.
By the end of 15th September the Germans were confused and dispirited. The bob was effectively won though ops would continue through the autumn followed by the night Blitz. They were getting nowhere and realised the RAF was far from finished, helped by from 12 Group the appearance of Bader’s Big Wing, if not its effectiveness.
Two famous incidents. The falling of a Dornier 17Z onto Victoria station and Wilton Rd. Its tail was cut off but Hurricane pilot Ray Holmes and it was filmed tumbling down. Holmes’ Hurricane fell not to far away and Ray survived minus his flying boots and in his pyjamas. One of the Dornier crew survived. The pilot Robert Zehbe also bailed out but was attacked by housewives when he landed with anything they could get their hands on and died of his injuries.
The second well known incident is the Dornier that came down near Shoreham Kent. The pilot Feldwebel Heitsch had hitched up a flamethrower in the tail as a deterrent/defence. Apart from lobbing oil over Ray Holmes Hurricane all it did was attract Spitfires and Hurricanes that thought it damaged and easy meat.
It was attacked over and over and finished up being bullet riddled and chased down Darent Valley by two Spitfires (Flt Lt Dundas and PO Tobin) on half an engine. I know where he crash landed. How he managed it I’ll never know. He and two of his crew survived. The fourth died at the scene despite the efforts of Heitch (who was a doctor) and the local emergency services. There are plenty of pictures of the crash scene.
Away from my musings. 15th September was a key date in the chain of events called the Battle of Britain. It’s as good as any for it and to me, important.
Whether BoB day had already been designated as such or was perhaps chosen as a wedding gift was never clearly established.
As someone else has indicated there were many non-British pilots engaged in BoB. Wiki has this:
State of origin Poland 145-146 New Zealand 127–135 Canada 112 Czechoslovakia 84–88 Belgium 28–30 Australia 26–32 South Africa 22–25 Free France 13–14 Republic of Ireland 10 United States 9–11 Southern Rhodesia 3–4 Barbados 1 Jamaica 1 Newfoundland 1 Northern Rhodesia 1
Whether BoB day had already been designated as such or was perhaps chosen as a wedding gift was never clearly established.
As someone else has indicated there were many non-British pilots engaged in BoB. Wiki has this:
State of origin Poland 145-146 New Zealand 127–135 Canada 112 Czechoslovakia 84–88 Belgium 28–30 Australia 26–32 South Africa 22–25 Free France 13–14 Republic of Ireland 10 United States 9–11 Southern Rhodesia 3–4 Barbados 1 Jamaica 1 Newfoundland 1 Northern Rhodesia 1
There certainly were people from many countries who contributed. Not just pilots either. No aeroplane gets in the air without a team behind it and many came to support the cause.
Dowding always said his biggest mistake was not to let the Poles off the leash sooner. There were sound reasons from his perspective at the time but in that he was wrong and put his hand up to it. Great man, Dowding. Never recognised as he should have been in my view.
Thank you for posting this. For anyone interested 15th September is Battle of Britain (BoB) day. The BoB was a series of attacks with the main aim of air superiority forcing Britain to political surrender or preparing the way for invasion - operation Sealion. I cannot see how the latter could been achieved but nobody thought that at the time after the Battle of France disaster.
Starting in July there were three phases. Shutting the Channel and drawing fighters into combat - achieved. Secondly the destruction of the RAF on the ground and in the air. This was not achieved though thanks to dreadful intelligence and politics, the Germans didn’t know it.
On 7th September, thanks to mistakes by a Luftwaffe crew accidentally bombing London (expressly banned) RAF bombed Berlin, enraged Hitler and the German Airforce turned to retaliation to shred population morale, destroy facilities and surrounding areas and draw what they thought was the remains of fighter command into final destruction.
But the RAF, though tired and short of pilots, was in better shape than the Luftwaffe and far from beaten thanks to superb management by Dowding and 11 Group commander Park. Initially, the first London raid on 7 Sept took the RAF by surprise. After that, it didn’t.
By the end of 15th September the Germans were confused and dispirited. The bob was effectively won though ops would continue through the autumn followed by the night Blitz. They were getting nowhere and realised the RAF was far from finished, helped by from 12 Group the appearance of Bader’s Big Wing, if not its effectiveness.
Two famous incidents. The falling of a Dornier 17Z onto Victoria station and Wilton Rd. Its tail was cut off but Hurricane pilot Ray Holmes and it was filmed tumbling down. Holmes’ Hurricane fell not to far away and Ray survived minus his flying boots and in his pyjamas. One of the Dornier crew survived. The pilot Robert Zehbe also bailed out but was attacked by housewives when he landed with anything they could get their hands on and died of his injuries.
The second well known incident is the Dornier that came down near Shoreham Kent. The pilot Feldwebel Heitsch had hitched up a flamethrower in the tail as a deterrent/defence. Apart from lobbing oil over Ray Holmes Hurricane all it did was attract Spitfires and Hurricanes that thought it damaged and easy meat.
It was attacked over and over and finished up being bullet riddled and chased down Darent Valley by two Spitfires (Flt Lt Dundas and PO Tobin) on half an engine. I know where he crash landed. How he managed it I’ll never know. He and two of his crew survived. The fourth died at the scene despite the efforts of Heitch (who was a doctor) and the local emergency services. There are plenty of pictures of the crash scene.
Away from my musings. 15th September was a key date in the chain of events called the Battle of Britain. It’s as good as any for it and to me, important.
Didn't the Dornier pilot that bailed out as his plane crashed in what is now Gypeswick Park face a similar group of ladies in the ranleigh Road area? May have just been local folklore! My Uncle and his friends were straight up to the crash site from the homes in Surrey Road. He also told me of everyone out on the street as the sky filled for Operation Market Garden.
Didn't the Dornier pilot that bailed out as his plane crashed in what is now Gypeswick Park face a similar group of ladies in the ranleigh Road area? May have just been local folklore! My Uncle and his friends were straight up to the crash site from the homes in Surrey Road. He also told me of everyone out on the street as the sky filled for Operation Market Garden.
The Dornier fell in the corner of the park and yes, the pilot was attacked but rescued by either Home Guard, police or both. All the crew survived. Some ships in the port actually fired at the crew as they parachuted down, but missed. Many airman on both sides were killed or injured by civilians unless the army or police got to them first. You can understand the feelings of people in desperate times however distasteful it sounds today. Such is war.
My dad and his brother watched it being shot down over the town by three Hurricanes. He said one of the Hurricanes did a victory roll after it (officially banned as any damage to the aircraft could make that stunt lethal). What I think he saw was the pilot wrestling with a damaged Hurricane - it was actually damaged by the rear gunner and crash landed on Rushmere golf course. The pilot was ok.
The Dornier was of course wrecked but there are pictures of the remains. As for Market Garden, my dad remembered that too. Must have been a sight seeing them come over. Many of those boys never came home of course.
The Dornier fell in the corner of the park and yes, the pilot was attacked but rescued by either Home Guard, police or both. All the crew survived. Some ships in the port actually fired at the crew as they parachuted down, but missed. Many airman on both sides were killed or injured by civilians unless the army or police got to them first. You can understand the feelings of people in desperate times however distasteful it sounds today. Such is war.
My dad and his brother watched it being shot down over the town by three Hurricanes. He said one of the Hurricanes did a victory roll after it (officially banned as any damage to the aircraft could make that stunt lethal). What I think he saw was the pilot wrestling with a damaged Hurricane - it was actually damaged by the rear gunner and crash landed on Rushmere golf course. The pilot was ok.
The Dornier was of course wrecked but there are pictures of the remains. As for Market Garden, my dad remembered that too. Must have been a sight seeing them come over. Many of those boys never came home of course.
Such a special generation.
"Such a special generation."
Always exceptions of course but IMO mostly ordinary people who did extraordinary things.
There certainly were people from many countries who contributed. Not just pilots either. No aeroplane gets in the air without a team behind it and many came to support the cause.
Dowding always said his biggest mistake was not to let the Poles off the leash sooner. There were sound reasons from his perspective at the time but in that he was wrong and put his hand up to it. Great man, Dowding. Never recognised as he should have been in my view.
The make up of Fighter Command is roughly summarised here
Around 600 pilots came from outside Britain, 2353 from Britain. These are rough numbers. The concern for the RAF really was pilot shortage so every one was vital. The quality varied from fresh out of training and vulnerable to experienced and very capable. The skill of Dowding and his commanders was to rotate squadrons in and out depending on losses, serviceability etc so where possible giving new pilots time - if they survived
The Luftwaffe had no such organisation. It started the war with very capable aircrew and pilots. Top notch. But its training programme was a mess and its ability to replace aircraft amateurish by comparison. In the GAF you flew till you died. Expert fighter pilots were supported but had priority so experiences gained by wingmen (they’d learned that flying in pairs was the safest most deadly way of going into combat) was more limited than it might have been.
Whilst in numbers the Luftwaffe grew, the quality of pilots and crew didn’t. Training programmes were shortened, people thrown in as the war progressed. The Battle of Britain did a lot to trigger the Luftwaffe’s decline. It never truly recovered.
On 16 September The British Commanders reviewed the previous day. While happy with the results they knew there was more to do to coordinate the elements of defence.
The Germans though were utterly at the end of it. Adolf went mad because London was still standing. Elements of the Luftwaffe blamed each other, surviving crews were tired. The decision was made to change the main thrust to night bombing - the blitz. Incursions on 16th were limited. German losses amounted to 10, British destroyed or damaged 3.
Of the aircraft in the battle, the Spitfire and Hurricane proved their worth, the Defiant was a failure anywhere near fighter opposition.
The 109 was a superb fighter in the hands of a good pilot. But its range was desperately short. The twin engine 110 was the best twin engine fighter in the world - but in daylight against single seaters? Oh dear. While having range, speed, firepower, it was slow to accelerate and not manoeuvrable enough. Losses were horrendous.
The bombers performed ok. The Do17 was a good aeroplane, but had a small payload and was essentially obsolete. The Ju88 became a versatile, very successful aircraft, but in 1940 crews were still getting used to it. At that stage it was unreliable, had handling issues and design flaws to be ironed out.
The He111 was also a good aeroplane for the time but ageing. Easy to fly, robust and handled well. Like all German bombers, its defences were limited. The Ju87 Stuka was withdrawn early. Against fighter opposition it was massacred. It was designed as precision aerial artillery / support and in that role there was no better aircraft in WW2, despite its looks. It was never designed to mix it with fighters.
The BoB was one of the key turning points of the war. That and the Dunkirk evacuation. It’s as simple as that and it was all down to 3000 pilots plus ground crews, radar operators, Ops Rooms, Observer Corps and the very people of this country. Just about every one of them.
There certainly were people from many countries who contributed. Not just pilots either. No aeroplane gets in the air without a team behind it and many came to support the cause.
Dowding always said his biggest mistake was not to let the Poles off the leash sooner. There were sound reasons from his perspective at the time but in that he was wrong and put his hand up to it. Great man, Dowding. Never recognised as he should have been in my view.
A propos the review on the 16th.
How much of Dowding we saw in Olivier's performance in the film is difficult to say of course but I'd like to think that a certain feel for the nature of the man came across in a few of the key moments.
This exchange, probably (almost certainly) dramatised if it happened at all, always impressed me and I will probably carry this as a measure of the man himself:
Air Vice Marshal Evill: The Air Minister, sir. on the scrambler. Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: [picks up green scrambler phone] Yes? Minister: Ah, Dowding. Er. Look. Our people in Washington are having trouble with the American Press. It's about today's figures. German sources there are saying that our claims are wildly exaggerated. Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: [listens, but says nothing] Minister: Hello? Are you there Dowding? Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: I'm here Minister. Minister: Well I mean, can you verify the figures? Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: [clears throat] I'm not very interested in propaganda. If we're right, they'll give up. If we are wrong, they'll be in London in a week!. [pauses then hangs up]
How much of Dowding we saw in Olivier's performance in the film is difficult to say of course but I'd like to think that a certain feel for the nature of the man came across in a few of the key moments.
This exchange, probably (almost certainly) dramatised if it happened at all, always impressed me and I will probably carry this as a measure of the man himself:
Air Vice Marshal Evill: The Air Minister, sir. on the scrambler. Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: [picks up green scrambler phone] Yes? Minister: Ah, Dowding. Er. Look. Our people in Washington are having trouble with the American Press. It's about today's figures. German sources there are saying that our claims are wildly exaggerated. Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: [listens, but says nothing] Minister: Hello? Are you there Dowding? Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: I'm here Minister. Minister: Well I mean, can you verify the figures? Air Chief Marshall Sir Hugh Dowding: [clears throat] I'm not very interested in propaganda. If we're right, they'll give up. If we are wrong, they'll be in London in a week!. [pauses then hangs up]
When the film was made, Dowding was very much still with us. Olivier spent a lot of time with him to learn his mannerisms and anything else he could glean, including what happened.
Obviously scriptwriters did their thing and there are inaccuracies, but by and large the film tells the story well and picks up the key events. Obviously, the aircraft are not all correct. The 109s and He111s are Spanish Merlin powered versions and the liveries are all wrong. They looked at getting the Hendon Stuka flying again, but the cost was too great so they used models.
The Spifires are all different Marks and there are few Hurricanes - very few were airworthy at the time. No Bf110s, Do17s or Ju88s of course.
However, the flying sequences are truly remarkable and can never be repeated due to flight safety rules. These are the ‘stars’ of the film. One of the criticisms by former BoB pilots advising was that the actors were all too old. And they were (at 25 you were well past it). Most were 18-23.
Back to Dowding, my reading of it is that he was as dour as Olivier portrayed him. A studious, clever man he did not have the ‘charisma’ or desire to bullsht, so beloved by politicians to this day. He was his own man as was New Zealander Keith Park who commanded 11 Group. Top bloke, Park, treated abominably after the BoB as was Dowding.
Park was sent to the backwaters of Malta to rot away. It turned out that his brilliance was a major factor in preventing the island’s capitulation. He is largely forgotten by history, but not by me.
Dowding’s replacement was 12 Group’s Trafford Leigh-Mallory. Well connected, a politician’s favourite, smooth, yes man. Incompetent and promoted well beyond his ability. He was loathed by those who knew what they were talking about and I believe cost a lot of lives.
Always exceptions of course but IMO mostly ordinary people who did extraordinary things.
It certainly was mostly ordinary people who did extraordinary things. You are 100% right. And it made the difference. Britain by this time was waging literally total war.
A Dakota flew over the green this morning.Now they sound lovely.
One of history’s great aeroplanes, the DC3/Dakota.
It was of course used in great numbers during Market Garden. It carried no defence, no armour plate, no self sealing petrol tanks. It was built to carry as much as possible.
Other aircraft used in the role were Halifaxes, Stirlings and Albemarles. The first two were designed as heavy four engined bombers, so retained usual armour protection but had turrets and stuff removed to save weight.
The AW Albemarle wasn’t the greatest aircraft ever and was not as good as existing Wellingtons and the three four engined heavies coming into service. It was relegated to secondary duties, which it performed sort of adequately. It was not liked by its crews.
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