| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. 02:13 - Sep 22 with 7610 views | Ryorry |
1. Police thought there was no indication any crime had even been committed, till a doctor at the hospital informed them that he'd gone into the ward & discovered her standing over a baby in distress for whom the alarm had been been turned off, but she was doing nothing to help them.
Now turns out that he'd emailed colleagues at the same time saying it was her who called his attention to the baby in distress, and that the alarm was still working. Has admitted he's changed his mind re his original statement to police.
2. Key evidence for the prosecution (because the only extant scientific evidence) was totally flawed.
a) Info re baby O's blood sugar level for April 9th, which showed it to be normal - thus proving insulin couldn't have been administered that day by Letby or anyone else - was not presented to the trial, but it was presented for April 8th, 10th, 11th & 12th.
b) Consultant pulmonologist said it would have been impossible to kill babies via the air injection method cited at the trial. There was actually handwritten timeline evidence by one of the doctors at the hospital that it was his injection catching part of one baby's liver which had already been damaged during birth, which was likely to be the significant factor in their death.
3. One of the parents whose baby died said it was entirely due to faecal infection (there was faecal matter coming out of the taps on the ward on a regular basis), but similar to several other babies' deaths at the hospital when Letby was not present, this was not recorded - because although the infant contracted the infection at the Countess of Chester Hospital, they were bluelighted away to a bigger hospital in Manchester to be treated, but sadly died anyway, so the deaths were recorded there & not included in stats for the CoC.
4. The jurors and court were told that all the babies who died were well and stable, so the only cause of death could have been deliberate harm. A senior nurse working on the ward at the time said this was manifestly untrue - the babies were all 'category 3' - the highest level of prematurity/illness/vulnerability - which the CoC Hosp was totally unequipped to deal with, particularly in extraordinary levels of understaffing.
A newspaper which most on here understandably shun, said it set out to prove Letby guilty in this docu, but actually ended up finding the complete opposite,
https://www.channel5.com/show/
[Post edited 22 Sep 3:27]
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:23 - Sep 22 with 602 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:50 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
I just don’t understand the obsession with some that she must be innocent. Why must she be? Why are there so many documentaries.
This is literally the 4th thread I remember the OP making about this specific case and every time defending Letby. I just find it weird when she’s a convicted baby killer. |
Who's saying "she must be innocent"? |  |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:25 - Sep 22 with 596 views | LeoMuff |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 20:57 - Sep 22 by Ryorry |
Some of us care about justice. Not as if there haven’t been gross miscarriages of it in the UK before, the proof of which came about because people fought for it; consequently innocent people were freed. Isn’t that what you would want for yourself and your family?
None of us calling for a review of the case for appeal have said we know whether Letby is innocent or guilty, we don’t, we are just concerned that the mountain of evidence that was *not* presented at trial, was rejected by the appeals court on technicalities, from huge numbers of independent medical, legal and police experts, is being ignored.
It’s thoroughly insulting to say we’re just idly going by documentaries, Private Eye etc info. All of those contain valid, verified info and facts from well respected people and sources. I personally have never used social media platforms as a basis for reading, information or opinion on this case.
Btw, for whoever it was that rather bizarrely referenced 3 politicians as the driving force behind the groundswell for appeal, here’s the reality. A few of the loudest voices on this thread seem to have done little or no real research.
https://jollycontrarian.com/in |
These points cannot easily be explained away for me
Why was Letby found by a consultant with a deteriorating child dropping o2 levels and breathing tube dislodged and observing, but not acting or calling for help ?
Why were 257 documents found under her bed taken from the hospital , including many from the babies who passed one and notes written on a per towel taken from the waste bin ?
Why was she searching up on social media families of the deceased some time after they had passed ? |  |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:42 - Sep 22 with 540 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:25 - Sep 22 by LeoMuff |
These points cannot easily be explained away for me
Why was Letby found by a consultant with a deteriorating child dropping o2 levels and breathing tube dislodged and observing, but not acting or calling for help ?
Why were 257 documents found under her bed taken from the hospital , including many from the babies who passed one and notes written on a per towel taken from the waste bin ?
Why was she searching up on social media families of the deceased some time after they had passed ? |
All stuff weighed up by a jury who were there listening and watching to all the evidence for ten months. TEN! |  |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:43 - Sep 22 with 534 views | Smoresy |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 18:01 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
If she wasn’t a privately educated rich white woman, there absolutely wouldn’t be half a dozen documentaries and Netflix shows examining whether a baby killer actually wasn’t evil at all.
It’s as if they just don’t think she’s capable despite the evidence and the whole process of a trial.
Doesn’t make me racist to say there’s huge subconscious bias at play here. No need for anyone to get offended by my belief. |
You're insulting people's intelligence with the argument you've made really, even if not intending to. I'd be astounded if those raising concerns in this thread aren't clever enough to appreciate that white people are capable of horrific crimes, as are wealthy white people, as are wealthy white women, as are wealthy white pretty women. I don't know if Letby fits into the last two categories and I haven't studied the case. I remember the BBC reporting several experts' concern after her conviction though, which is unusual irrespective of social media algorithms or white supremacist agendas. It seems her conviction was based at least in part on disputed science, which naturally attracts scrutiny irrespective of race or privilege. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:54 - Sep 22 with 507 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:43 - Sep 22 by Smoresy |
You're insulting people's intelligence with the argument you've made really, even if not intending to. I'd be astounded if those raising concerns in this thread aren't clever enough to appreciate that white people are capable of horrific crimes, as are wealthy white people, as are wealthy white women, as are wealthy white pretty women. I don't know if Letby fits into the last two categories and I haven't studied the case. I remember the BBC reporting several experts' concern after her conviction though, which is unusual irrespective of social media algorithms or white supremacist agendas. It seems her conviction was based at least in part on disputed science, which naturally attracts scrutiny irrespective of race or privilege. |
And yet despite a million documentaries and the trendiness to say she’s innocent, she’s still been found unanimously guilty of 34 murders and still not been granted an appeal for any of them. In fact she lost an appeal weeks after a Netflix documentary was aired where her legal team plead her case in one of the bloody episodes. Madness |  |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:56 - Sep 22 with 430 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:54 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
And yet despite a million documentaries and the trendiness to say she’s innocent, she’s still been found unanimously guilty of 34 murders and still not been granted an appeal for any of them. In fact she lost an appeal weeks after a Netflix documentary was aired where her legal team plead her case in one of the bloody episodes. Madness |
You keep writing things that are not true. There were not 34 murders, she was not unanimously found guilty. The appeal process is ongoing.
Read around the case with an open mind. That’s what the people challenging the conviction are doing. Having studied the evidence in detail, many many people are saying it’s flawed.
The ramifications of that are very significant to all of us |  | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:57 - Sep 22 with 428 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:52 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I poorly articulated my disbelief that her skin colour has anything to do with the fact she may or may not be guilty.
If this is a great injustice, it’s absolutely something worth debating and advocating for. Those who haven’t looked at the details should do so. It has chilling ramifications. |
Hold up a second. Hold up a fecking second. I absolutely did not say that her skin colour has anything to do with her actual guilt.
I very specifically said that it’s because she’s both privileged (privately educated) and a young pretty white woman, that combined, it means she has far more interest in the case. There absolutely wouldn’t be this many documentaries on the case if it was a weirdo in his 50s from abroad. And I stand by that.
That doesn’t mean because she is white I’m at all saying it means she’s more or less guilty.
And you know I never said that so don’t try and misinterpret my words three pages later so easily. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:58 - Sep 22 with 426 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:56 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
You keep writing things that are not true. There were not 34 murders, she was not unanimously found guilty. The appeal process is ongoing.
Read around the case with an open mind. That’s what the people challenging the conviction are doing. Having studied the evidence in detail, many many people are saying it’s flawed.
The ramifications of that are very significant to all of us |
34 charges that should have read. Attempted murder is still not exactly a good thing is it? | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:59 - Sep 22 with 421 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 21:42 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
All stuff weighed up by a jury who were there listening and watching to all the evidence for ten months. TEN! |
The length of trial is not an endorsement of the strength of evidence. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:00 - Sep 22 with 409 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:58 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
34 charges that should have read. Attempted murder is still not exactly a good thing is it? |
Whats the number of convictions or whether they are “a good thing” got to do with anything? | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:01 - Sep 22 with 406 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:56 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
You keep writing things that are not true. There were not 34 murders, she was not unanimously found guilty. The appeal process is ongoing.
Read around the case with an open mind. That’s what the people challenging the conviction are doing. Having studied the evidence in detail, many many people are saying it’s flawed.
The ramifications of that are very significant to all of us |
I know you’re choosing to pretend you know more than me and that because I don’t agree with you, it means I have a closed mind and all that patronising bollox… but as I said on the first reply, I followed this case before it was public knowledge. Years ago.
It’s the stuff since she was convicted and the need for her to be not-guilty to make some people feel better about the world that I don’t get. She’s a convicted child killer and you’re on here standing up for her assuming she must be so unfortunate to be convicted of all these monstrous crimes. Rather then play the percentages that she almost definitely did it and is just simply evil. The OP has done 4 threads on Letby now trying to convince us all that she’s been wronged. It’s weird. That’s my view | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:03 - Sep 22 with 401 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:00 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
Whats the number of convictions or whether they are “a good thing” got to do with anything? |
Because you’re making it out that she was unfortunate and found guilty of killing one kid in a one off mad event.
When she was unanimously found guilty of dozens of charges of murder and attempted murder by a jury who heard weeks and weeks and weeks of evidence that we didnt. And yet you’re so sure she’s been wronged of all of this. Nuts | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:04 - Sep 22 with 401 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:56 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
You keep writing things that are not true. There were not 34 murders, she was not unanimously found guilty. The appeal process is ongoing.
Read around the case with an open mind. That’s what the people challenging the conviction are doing. Having studied the evidence in detail, many many people are saying it’s flawed.
The ramifications of that are very significant to all of us |
For the record, carry on with this patronising tone and I won’t engage with you. I’m being respectful here but you’re choosing to play the whole ‘I know more than you’ card that has always irritated me on here. It used to be because I was younger than most of you. Now it’s just as annoying. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:06 - Sep 22 with 397 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:56 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
You keep writing things that are not true. There were not 34 murders, she was not unanimously found guilty. The appeal process is ongoing.
Read around the case with an open mind. That’s what the people challenging the conviction are doing. Having studied the evidence in detail, many many people are saying it’s flawed.
The ramifications of that are very significant to all of us |
One was unanimous. Most were 10-1. 8 murders and 7 attempted. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:07 - Sep 22 with 394 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 22:59 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
The length of trial is not an endorsement of the strength of evidence. |
Not the point made. I am torn between the idea that you well know this, and are disingenuous or that you just don't pay attention to what is written.
The point, of course, is that jurors sat through huge amounts of evidence and argument. A documentary and a wiki page does not come close to the level of information they had when reaching verdicts. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:10 - Sep 22 with 384 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:01 - Sep 22 by The_Romford_Blue |
I know you’re choosing to pretend you know more than me and that because I don’t agree with you, it means I have a closed mind and all that patronising bollox… but as I said on the first reply, I followed this case before it was public knowledge. Years ago.
It’s the stuff since she was convicted and the need for her to be not-guilty to make some people feel better about the world that I don’t get. She’s a convicted child killer and you’re on here standing up for her assuming she must be so unfortunate to be convicted of all these monstrous crimes. Rather then play the percentages that she almost definitely did it and is just simply evil. The OP has done 4 threads on Letby now trying to convince us all that she’s been wronged. It’s weird. That’s my view |
I have taken time to read around this case for the last two years in detail. I may not know more than you, but I have come to a very different conclusion. A conclusion that seems consistent with the evidence but of course we shall see.
I age taken time to understand the air embolism evidence, the insulin evidence, the shift chart statistics, the psychological profile, the errors of the police, the views of the expert panel, the submissions to parliament, the grievance, the building issues, the reports of the whislteblower, endemic sepsis, the view of the 19 nurses group. I’m happy to discuss any of those points in turn
I want to approach this topic with you and take your points in good faith, but so much of what you’ve written is puerile so that’s difficult. Our process doesn’t stop at conviction. The process is being followed and there appears to be plenty of evidence for the CCRC to consider.
You’ve jumped in and made comments about her race and the motivations of those who want to know the truth using emotive language. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:13 - Sep 22 with 374 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:07 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Not the point made. I am torn between the idea that you well know this, and are disingenuous or that you just don't pay attention to what is written.
The point, of course, is that jurors sat through huge amounts of evidence and argument. A documentary and a wiki page does not come close to the level of information they had when reaching verdicts. |
You wrote TEN in capitals. I’d be forgiven for thinking that was a reference to the length of the trial.
Your point is disingenuous, I don’t need to be torn on that. A documentary and a wiki page? You’re ignoring the vast swathes of expert evidence. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:14 - Sep 22 with 369 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:10 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I have taken time to read around this case for the last two years in detail. I may not know more than you, but I have come to a very different conclusion. A conclusion that seems consistent with the evidence but of course we shall see.
I age taken time to understand the air embolism evidence, the insulin evidence, the shift chart statistics, the psychological profile, the errors of the police, the views of the expert panel, the submissions to parliament, the grievance, the building issues, the reports of the whislteblower, endemic sepsis, the view of the 19 nurses group. I’m happy to discuss any of those points in turn
I want to approach this topic with you and take your points in good faith, but so much of what you’ve written is puerile so that’s difficult. Our process doesn’t stop at conviction. The process is being followed and there appears to be plenty of evidence for the CCRC to consider.
You’ve jumped in and made comments about her race and the motivations of those who want to know the truth using emotive language. |
I keep mentioning the appeal judgment. No one appears to have read it. Have you?
Ought to be the starting point for any reading around. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:21 - Sep 22 with 337 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:14 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
I keep mentioning the appeal judgment. No one appears to have read it. Have you?
Ought to be the starting point for any reading around. |
I have read it. That was two years ago. The process has moved on significantly since. As has the emerging evidence.
What would you say about the Birmingham 6? Or Andrew Malkinson? Or the post office scandal? They all followed the same process | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:22 - Sep 22 with 335 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:13 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
You wrote TEN in capitals. I’d be forgiven for thinking that was a reference to the length of the trial.
Your point is disingenuous, I don’t need to be torn on that. A documentary and a wiki page? You’re ignoring the vast swathes of expert evidence. |
Yes. It was a clear reference to the extraordinary length of trial. And to the amount of evidence the jury therefore had before reaching their view. The point being, as I now have to assume that you well know, that most people claiming that the jury is wrong, have far far far less information and understanding of the case than those jurors. That does not necessarily mean they were right. What it does mean is that lots of people with very firm views on this, are massively short in their knowledge compared to the jurors who made the decision.
What it was not, was a claim that the length of trial was an "endorsement of the strength of the evidence".
So you are again, I think deliberately, equivocating
You are not being an honest interlocutor at this point. Which is unfortunate. | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:23 - Sep 22 with 328 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:21 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I have read it. That was two years ago. The process has moved on significantly since. As has the emerging evidence.
What would you say about the Birmingham 6? Or Andrew Malkinson? Or the post office scandal? They all followed the same process |
I actually don't believe you. but I could be wrong.
What is the emerging evidence that was not dealt with on appeal? Best 3 points would do... | |
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| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:29 - Sep 22 with 322 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:22 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Yes. It was a clear reference to the extraordinary length of trial. And to the amount of evidence the jury therefore had before reaching their view. The point being, as I now have to assume that you well know, that most people claiming that the jury is wrong, have far far far less information and understanding of the case than those jurors. That does not necessarily mean they were right. What it does mean is that lots of people with very firm views on this, are massively short in their knowledge compared to the jurors who made the decision.
What it was not, was a claim that the length of trial was an "endorsement of the strength of the evidence".
So you are again, I think deliberately, equivocating
You are not being an honest interlocutor at this point. Which is unfortunate. |
I don’t agree with that either. The jurors deliberated on the evidence put to them, which has been challenged and debunked.
The statistical evidence is a very good example, as presented I suspect many people would have found it compelling. Most people have a relatively poor grasp of statistics. This isn’t a facetious comment, it’s just a fact. When presented with a “compelling” argument from the prosecution which is statically a total falsehood, then what are we to expect?
No serious statistician now considers that evidence to be anything other than total rubbish. And yet people still clutch to a weird belief in the integrity of the original trial. | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:29 - Sep 22 with 316 views | balcombeblue |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:23 - Sep 22 by redrickstuhaart |
I actually don't believe you. but I could be wrong.
What is the emerging evidence that was not dealt with on appeal? Best 3 points would do... |
Air embolism
Insulin poisoning
Shift chart statistics | | | |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:31 - Sep 22 with 307 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Lucy Letby; C5 docu last night, new evidence. Appeal has to be allowed surely .. on 23:29 - Sep 22 by balcombeblue |
I don’t agree with that either. The jurors deliberated on the evidence put to them, which has been challenged and debunked.
The statistical evidence is a very good example, as presented I suspect many people would have found it compelling. Most people have a relatively poor grasp of statistics. This isn’t a facetious comment, it’s just a fact. When presented with a “compelling” argument from the prosecution which is statically a total falsehood, then what are we to expect?
No serious statistician now considers that evidence to be anything other than total rubbish. And yet people still clutch to a weird belief in the integrity of the original trial. |
No. It has not been debunked. Even if there were valid challenges, it would not change the fact that they have vastly more information than people on the internet stating what they reckon having read some websites and watched a documentary.
You havent presented any new evidence at all. Statistics were not a basis for conviction. | |
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