| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:32 - May 4 with 1364 views | xrayspecs |
The irony here being that most GPs are independent contractors and not directly employed by the NHS.
I am not a fan of Serco btw but the selective reporting of the privatisation of the NHS ignores that large swathes of it have been private for years. |  | |  |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:39 - May 4 with 1338 views | BlueBadger |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:32 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
The irony here being that most GPs are independent contractors and not directly employed by the NHS.
I am not a fan of Serco btw but the selective reporting of the privatisation of the NHS ignores that large swathes of it have been private for years. |
Yes. And that's why so many patients in hospital are malnourished and there was an MRSA explosion in the early 2000's - because catering and cleaning services(to name two) were outsourced to people dedicated to cutting corners at every instance. It's part of the reason why we haven't been testing for covid-19 effectively - we don't have the lab capacity, because many 'bog standard' district hospitals have had their capacities cut in favour of centralising many, many tests to large teaching hospitals, often several miles away from the district hospitals.
GPs aren't fully private entities they're franchisers - in return for a 'brand identity' they HAVE to follow certain procedures and ways of working(NHS pay structure, obligations to provide training and professional development for their staff - for example) - sure there's financial incentives for them, but the hours are punishing, the margins relatively slim and the incentives are usually based around targets like 'stop sending everyone to A&E please' rather than 'let's buy the directors a new yacht'. [Post edited 4 May 2020 21:42]
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:40 - May 4 with 1334 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:32 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
The irony here being that most GPs are independent contractors and not directly employed by the NHS.
I am not a fan of Serco btw but the selective reporting of the privatisation of the NHS ignores that large swathes of it have been private for years. |
They are, but I'm not aware of GPs reporting to shareholders first and foremost. My sister in law is a GP and partner of a small surgery and has significant responsibility for relatively little reward. They're certainly not sucking profits out of the system. Quite the opposite: local GPs running a local surgery are the very opposite of a large corporate behemoth, divorced form the local community they're supposed to be serving and beholden to shareholders and investors.
It might not be like that everywhere of course and there could well be much larger groups operating multiple surgeries. I've only experidne of what happening locally here. |  |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:40 - May 4 with 1330 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:32 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
The irony here being that most GPs are independent contractors and not directly employed by the NHS.
I am not a fan of Serco btw but the selective reporting of the privatisation of the NHS ignores that large swathes of it have been private for years. |
Drip....drip......drip.....splash... |  |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:48 - May 4 with 1310 views | xrayspecs |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:39 - May 4 by BlueBadger |
Yes. And that's why so many patients in hospital are malnourished and there was an MRSA explosion in the early 2000's - because catering and cleaning services(to name two) were outsourced to people dedicated to cutting corners at every instance. It's part of the reason why we haven't been testing for covid-19 effectively - we don't have the lab capacity, because many 'bog standard' district hospitals have had their capacities cut in favour of centralising many, many tests to large teaching hospitals, often several miles away from the district hospitals.
GPs aren't fully private entities they're franchisers - in return for a 'brand identity' they HAVE to follow certain procedures and ways of working(NHS pay structure, obligations to provide training and professional development for their staff - for example) - sure there's financial incentives for them, but the hours are punishing, the margins relatively slim and the incentives are usually based around targets like 'stop sending everyone to A&E please' rather than 'let's buy the directors a new yacht'. [Post edited 4 May 2020 21:42]
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Agree entirely. My point being that there is quite selective reporting on what is private/public.
Keep well and thanks for the updates. | | | |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:50 - May 4 with 1304 views | BlueBadger |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:48 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
Agree entirely. My point being that there is quite selective reporting on what is private/public.
Keep well and thanks for the updates. |
What we've seen in the last ten years in terms of privatisation though is unprecedented - up to 2012 it was bits and pieces, mostly of support services. Since then, it's spiralled. And very little of it have improved services or ultimately made a saving. | |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:54 - May 4 with 1287 views | xrayspecs |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:40 - May 4 by Swansea_Blue |
They are, but I'm not aware of GPs reporting to shareholders first and foremost. My sister in law is a GP and partner of a small surgery and has significant responsibility for relatively little reward. They're certainly not sucking profits out of the system. Quite the opposite: local GPs running a local surgery are the very opposite of a large corporate behemoth, divorced form the local community they're supposed to be serving and beholden to shareholders and investors.
It might not be like that everywhere of course and there could well be much larger groups operating multiple surgeries. I've only experidne of what happening locally here. |
I worked in the NHS for a number of years and GP practices at the time were quite variable. There were some who were the embodiment of the post-war Bevan NHS, there were others who were all about maximising GP financial returns. We had big battles to keep them sensible and stop ripping the NHS off.
My OP was that we have a narrative about NHS staff being all-good and the private sector being all bad. I am not a fan of the private sector but I also know that the public sector is not all good. | | | |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:57 - May 4 with 1270 views | xrayspecs |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:50 - May 4 by BlueBadger |
What we've seen in the last ten years in terms of privatisation though is unprecedented - up to 2012 it was bits and pieces, mostly of support services. Since then, it's spiralled. And very little of it have improved services or ultimately made a saving. |
Completely agree.
My OP was about how the media misrepresent public good v private bad and that reality is a little more nuanced. | | | |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:01 - May 4 with 1262 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:54 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
I worked in the NHS for a number of years and GP practices at the time were quite variable. There were some who were the embodiment of the post-war Bevan NHS, there were others who were all about maximising GP financial returns. We had big battles to keep them sensible and stop ripping the NHS off.
My OP was that we have a narrative about NHS staff being all-good and the private sector being all bad. I am not a fan of the private sector but I also know that the public sector is not all good. |
You'll know a lot more than me then. SIL's place is small and run solely by the practicing partners themselves with no additional management overheads and very much in the spirit of the post-war Bevan NHS. I can well believe others aren't. That must be the problem with the way the system works for GPs. | |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:10 - May 4 with 1253 views | BlueBadger |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 21:57 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
Completely agree.
My OP was about how the media misrepresent public good v private bad and that reality is a little more nuanced. |
Trouble is, there's very, very, very little evidence to suggest that NHS privatisation beyond the shop in the hospital lobby is of benefit. | |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:13 - May 4 with 1241 views | xrayspecs |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:10 - May 4 by BlueBadger |
Trouble is, there's very, very, very little evidence to suggest that NHS privatisation beyond the shop in the hospital lobby is of benefit. |
I think we are agreeing? | | | |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:33 - May 4 with 1213 views | BlueBadger |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:13 - May 4 by xrayspecs |
I think we are agreeing? |
Look, you started me off on this rant, I'm going to finish it! | |
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| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 23:04 - May 4 with 1173 views | xrayspecs |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 22:33 - May 4 by BlueBadger |
Look, you started me off on this rant, I'm going to finish it! |
Off you go then.
I think we are saying similar things though.
Take care, be safe. Respect.
Xrs | | | |
| Well that's tracing screwed.... on 23:38 - May 4 with 1150 views | bournemouthblue |
How very Tory, I suppose the Government has lost a lot skills and knowledge to run something like this over the years and we simply have to hire in that service
As is the case with outsourcing, it tends to cost your more than it would if you did it in-house, you might get it faster but at a lower overall quality. It's always morally questionable when you are essentially giving taxpayers money to a private company. |  |
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