Boris rewriting history - quite literally… 20:40 - Oct 31 with 3173 views | ElderGrizzly |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 20:49 - Oct 31 with 2272 views | factual_blue | Trouble is, he's rewriting stuff he doesn't know in the first place. A woeful display of ignorance by a supposed classicist. God knows how he managed to get an Attila. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 20:51]
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 21:36 - Oct 31 with 2172 views | Guthrum | The Roman Empire collapsed for three reasons, none of which were 'uncontrolled immigration'. First (and most significantly), economic collapse, a major factor in which was frequent debasement of the coinage. Secondly, political infighting and endemic civil war. Thirdly, imperial overreach removing buffer zones around the borders, plus itself contributing to the first factor by exhausting the treasury and the second by setting up over-powerful subordinates who then made bids for the imperial throne. | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 21:42 - Oct 31 with 2159 views | ElderGrizzly |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 20:49 - Oct 31 by factual_blue | Trouble is, he's rewriting stuff he doesn't know in the first place. A woeful display of ignorance by a supposed classicist. God knows how he managed to get an Attila. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 20:51]
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It’s what he does and Jacob RM to a point too. Sound posh, spout lies, pretend they never did it 2 mins later | | | |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 22:03 - Oct 31 with 2105 views | factual_blue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 21:36 - Oct 31 by Guthrum | The Roman Empire collapsed for three reasons, none of which were 'uncontrolled immigration'. First (and most significantly), economic collapse, a major factor in which was frequent debasement of the coinage. Secondly, political infighting and endemic civil war. Thirdly, imperial overreach removing buffer zones around the borders, plus itself contributing to the first factor by exhausting the treasury and the second by setting up over-powerful subordinates who then made bids for the imperial throne. |
What dramatic times they were. It seems like it was only yesterday. And as for the Dark Ages, Illig argues they didn't even exist in the Phantom Time Hypothesis.* *A conspiracy theory disproven by, among other things, dendrochronology. | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 22:10 - Oct 31 with 2070 views | BlueBadger | YES[/b} but, the Labour PARTY | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:05 - Nov 1 with 1969 views | Bluedicea | The dark ages were really dark. He needs to learn some history. One of the reasons it was called the dark ages and lots of people died was down to several major volcanic eruptions on the other side of the world. It pushed the world into a mini ice age for well over 400years. The crops failed in many countries, winters became more harsh, snow regularly fell in places like Rome, Algiers, Constantinople. The skys were much darker, often the sun couldn't be seen on a summers day due to the dust haze in the upper atmosphere. We were coming out of it when the plague spread round the world, part of the reason it spread so badly and killed so many is because people were malnourished from lack of food, the average lifespan for humans in the early 1000's dropped to an estimated 18 years old. Now think about the climate debate, we have severely altered it. But if it wasn't for that mini ice age which killed millions, we would now be seeing temperatures 5-10 degrees hotter than what they are on average currently, never mind limiting it to 1.5, most places would of become uninhabitable 50 - 75 years ago. Krakatoa exploding in the late 1800's also helped in that respect. Lowering the global temperatures for a few decades. Also the largest explosion heard by humans, that was heard around the world, ithe sound wave traveled at least 4 times round the world. It was also one of the first reported natural disasters that the world knew about within a few days of it happening. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:27]
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| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:18 - Nov 1 with 1951 views | Bluedicea |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 21:36 - Oct 31 by Guthrum | The Roman Empire collapsed for three reasons, none of which were 'uncontrolled immigration'. First (and most significantly), economic collapse, a major factor in which was frequent debasement of the coinage. Secondly, political infighting and endemic civil war. Thirdly, imperial overreach removing buffer zones around the borders, plus itself contributing to the first factor by exhausting the treasury and the second by setting up over-powerful subordinates who then made bids for the imperial throne. |
That depends if you class the Mongolian hordes as 'uncontrolled immigration'. The Holy Roman Empire was on the wane by then, but would probably have lasted a few hundred years longer if it wasn't for them overruning most of the Empire's eastern front. As only half of the estimated 200k mongols stayed in Europe, rather than returning to their homeland, it is a debatable point as to whether that immigration and the destruction they left , was what finally did it for them or not. They influenced the end of Rome but certainly weren't the only cause. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:46]
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| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:50 - Nov 1 with 1895 views | factual_blue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:18 - Nov 1 by Bluedicea | That depends if you class the Mongolian hordes as 'uncontrolled immigration'. The Holy Roman Empire was on the wane by then, but would probably have lasted a few hundred years longer if it wasn't for them overruning most of the Empire's eastern front. As only half of the estimated 200k mongols stayed in Europe, rather than returning to their homeland, it is a debatable point as to whether that immigration and the destruction they left , was what finally did it for them or not. They influenced the end of Rome but certainly weren't the only cause. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:46]
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Errrr.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Early_Middle_Ages Note in particular the phrase 'Not to be confused with Roman Empire, Western Roman Empire, or Byzantine Empire.' | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 01:04 - Nov 1 with 1861 views | Bluedicea |
Errrr..... Both were Roman empires. Unless it was specifically stated as being one of the 4 distinct Roman empires, then the term "Roman empire" covers all 4 time periods. Just because people aren't educated about history doesn't mean it's wrong. If you say Roman empire, it covers the whole lot. So, I'm so sorry for using the correct historical context, despite you talking about one specific Roman empire period within the whole 1200+ years of their empire. If you want to be pedantic, that is a choice. But miss labeling a period of time and then saying you meant a completely different era in time, is a mistake and is your fault not mine. Try to be clear and use the correct terminology in the future, otherwise it leads to misunderstandings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_incursions_in_the_Holy_Roman_Empire [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 3:50]
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| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 07:00 - Nov 1 with 1644 views | BlueBadger |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 21:42 - Oct 31 by ElderGrizzly | It’s what he does and Jacob RM to a point too. Sound posh, spout lies, pretend they never did it 2 mins later |
Yes, but they do the lying and bigotry with nice polite voices, so that's OK. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 7:02]
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 07:08 - Nov 1 with 1617 views | BlueBadger |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:18 - Nov 1 by Bluedicea | That depends if you class the Mongolian hordes as 'uncontrolled immigration'. The Holy Roman Empire was on the wane by then, but would probably have lasted a few hundred years longer if it wasn't for them overruning most of the Empire's eastern front. As only half of the estimated 200k mongols stayed in Europe, rather than returning to their homeland, it is a debatable point as to whether that immigration and the destruction they left , was what finally did it for them or not. They influenced the end of Rome but certainly weren't the only cause. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:46]
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The holy Roman empire was, in the words of Voltaire, neither holy nor Roman. | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 07:26 - Nov 1 with 1569 views | DanTheMan |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:05 - Nov 1 by Bluedicea | The dark ages were really dark. He needs to learn some history. One of the reasons it was called the dark ages and lots of people died was down to several major volcanic eruptions on the other side of the world. It pushed the world into a mini ice age for well over 400years. The crops failed in many countries, winters became more harsh, snow regularly fell in places like Rome, Algiers, Constantinople. The skys were much darker, often the sun couldn't be seen on a summers day due to the dust haze in the upper atmosphere. We were coming out of it when the plague spread round the world, part of the reason it spread so badly and killed so many is because people were malnourished from lack of food, the average lifespan for humans in the early 1000's dropped to an estimated 18 years old. Now think about the climate debate, we have severely altered it. But if it wasn't for that mini ice age which killed millions, we would now be seeing temperatures 5-10 degrees hotter than what they are on average currently, never mind limiting it to 1.5, most places would of become uninhabitable 50 - 75 years ago. Krakatoa exploding in the late 1800's also helped in that respect. Lowering the global temperatures for a few decades. Also the largest explosion heard by humans, that was heard around the world, ithe sound wave traveled at least 4 times round the world. It was also one of the first reported natural disasters that the world knew about within a few days of it happening. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:27]
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"One of the reasons it was called the dark ages and lots of people died was down to several major volcanic eruptions on the other side of the world." I've never come across this interpretation. The original reason it was called a dark age was because of lack of records and an erroneous idea that during the period civilisation went backwards. Also, have you got claims on this (the mini ice age) lasting 400 years? I've read about the fog that came about during 536 but it seems it may have lasted 18 months or so and not been as big of a deal as some make out (usually people crossing their specialism into History). An example of this would be David Keys, whose ideas aren't exactly mainstream. To quote Antti Arjava. The literary sources that record the darkness of 536/37 all seem to consider it a temporary misfortune. Among the innumerable earthquakes, droughts, plagues, swarms of locusts, and slaughters that are listed by the historians of this time, the dark cloud was not considered a particularly severe catastrophe. Shortage of food was recurrent in the ancient world, and people were used to it, however intense the short-term suffering might be. Even if the eruption of Etna really caused a food crisis in Egypt and perhaps elsewhere in the Mediterranean after 44 BCE, no one would claim that Egyptian society or the Roman Empire suffered any long-term harm from it-possible short-term political implications aside. The murder of Caesar had been planned before the eruption, but if the Roman sources were as inaccurate as they are for most regions and historical periods, someone would certainly be tempted to connect the natural phenomenon with political change As for the mini ice age part, 5-10 degrees would be an insane level of cooling. I did find a source claiming it would have caused 2 degrees of cooling, but nothing even approaching 5-10c. Even if it did approach that, it would not cause a long term effect on the climate. If we look at the global averages, we can see that even the most severe little ice age is nothing compared to what we are seeing now: [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 8:14]
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 07:35 - Nov 1 with 1545 views | DanTheMan |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:18 - Nov 1 by Bluedicea | That depends if you class the Mongolian hordes as 'uncontrolled immigration'. The Holy Roman Empire was on the wane by then, but would probably have lasted a few hundred years longer if it wasn't for them overruning most of the Empire's eastern front. As only half of the estimated 200k mongols stayed in Europe, rather than returning to their homeland, it is a debatable point as to whether that immigration and the destruction they left , was what finally did it for them or not. They influenced the end of Rome but certainly weren't the only cause. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:46]
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Going to have to question this as well, the Holy Roman empire was "on the wane" when the Mongols "overran" the empires eastern front? There were some small incursions but they really did not get very far past Bohemia or Austria. Even so, that happened during the 13th century. The Holy Roman Empire would continue for another 6 centuries, and it wasn't a slow drawn out death either. Have you got a source on the 100k Mongolian immigrants in Europe? That seems an awfully high number given the likely size of any Mongolian force at that time. | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 07:39 - Nov 1 with 1536 views | Herbivore | Truth and reality just don't matter to him at all. This is a man who boldly told a father whose child was in hospital that "There are no cameras here" despite the incident being filmed by at least one television crew and there being numerous other members of the press around. He'll say whatever helps him further his own cause. | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 07:54 - Nov 1 with 1513 views | Guthrum |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 01:04 - Nov 1 by Bluedicea | Errrr..... Both were Roman empires. Unless it was specifically stated as being one of the 4 distinct Roman empires, then the term "Roman empire" covers all 4 time periods. Just because people aren't educated about history doesn't mean it's wrong. If you say Roman empire, it covers the whole lot. So, I'm so sorry for using the correct historical context, despite you talking about one specific Roman empire period within the whole 1200+ years of their empire. If you want to be pedantic, that is a choice. But miss labeling a period of time and then saying you meant a completely different era in time, is a mistake and is your fault not mine. Try to be clear and use the correct terminology in the future, otherwise it leads to misunderstandings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_incursions_in_the_Holy_Roman_Empire [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 3:50]
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In context, he mentioned the Dark Ages, which, in traditional historigraphy, were always dated from the deposition of Romulus Augustulus as Western Roman Emperor in 476 to the Norman conquest of England in 1066. In addition, the Mongols had very little bearing on the end of Byzantine or Holy Roman empires, sweeping around the one and stopping short of the other. Indeed, they did more damage to their enemies than to them. In fact, the former survived for a further two centuries and the latter until 1806. | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 08:11 - Nov 1 with 1474 views | leitrimblue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 00:05 - Nov 1 by Bluedicea | The dark ages were really dark. He needs to learn some history. One of the reasons it was called the dark ages and lots of people died was down to several major volcanic eruptions on the other side of the world. It pushed the world into a mini ice age for well over 400years. The crops failed in many countries, winters became more harsh, snow regularly fell in places like Rome, Algiers, Constantinople. The skys were much darker, often the sun couldn't be seen on a summers day due to the dust haze in the upper atmosphere. We were coming out of it when the plague spread round the world, part of the reason it spread so badly and killed so many is because people were malnourished from lack of food, the average lifespan for humans in the early 1000's dropped to an estimated 18 years old. Now think about the climate debate, we have severely altered it. But if it wasn't for that mini ice age which killed millions, we would now be seeing temperatures 5-10 degrees hotter than what they are on average currently, never mind limiting it to 1.5, most places would of become uninhabitable 50 - 75 years ago. Krakatoa exploding in the late 1800's also helped in that respect. Lowering the global temperatures for a few decades. Also the largest explosion heard by humans, that was heard around the world, ithe sound wave traveled at least 4 times round the world. It was also one of the first reported natural disasters that the world knew about within a few days of it happening. [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 0:27]
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Sorry Bluedicea, there really isn't such a thing as the dark ages. It was incorrectly labelled the dark ages by classicists who considered it so compared to what they believed to be the 'cultural highpoints' of the Greeks an Romans. In reality it was far from dark, look at Ireland for example between 400-800 AD. I would suggest it's the highpoint of Celtic culture and art(book of Kell's etc) (see also picts in Scotland) | | | |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 10:38 - Nov 1 with 1316 views | WeWereZombies |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 08:11 - Nov 1 by leitrimblue | Sorry Bluedicea, there really isn't such a thing as the dark ages. It was incorrectly labelled the dark ages by classicists who considered it so compared to what they believed to be the 'cultural highpoints' of the Greeks an Romans. In reality it was far from dark, look at Ireland for example between 400-800 AD. I would suggest it's the highpoint of Celtic culture and art(book of Kell's etc) (see also picts in Scotland) |
The Book of Kells is, indeed, one of very many beautifully illustrated manuscripts from the centuries before Gutenberg, see also Book of Hours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_hours [edit] I should really have read on about Book of Hours and realised that they were associated with the Middle Ages and not the 'Dark Ages', although the Wikipedia page does link back to the Psalter which is more contemporaneous with Kells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalter And we shouldn't forget Bede in all this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_History_of_the_English_People [end of edit] However, Christianity and Islam were also responsible for taking an, at best, slanted view of classical philosophy (which at that time included much of what we regard as science today) and were often culpable of downright suppression: http://historybooksreview.co.uk/the-suppression-of-the-school-of-athens-gibbons- [Post edited 1 Nov 2021 10:45]
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:11 - Nov 1 with 1240 views | leitrimblue |
Accurate as always Zombers. I especially like yer last paragraph, is true of course I just never like to miss a chance to slag off classicists or the Romans in general. The answer to the question what did the Romans do for us? Is simple, concrete, the arch/dome, beyond that nothing! | | | |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:20 - Nov 1 with 1176 views | factual_blue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:11 - Nov 1 by leitrimblue | Accurate as always Zombers. I especially like yer last paragraph, is true of course I just never like to miss a chance to slag off classicists or the Romans in general. The answer to the question what did the Romans do for us? Is simple, concrete, the arch/dome, beyond that nothing! |
How did they grow their concrete without John Innes no.3? | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:26 - Nov 1 with 1158 views | leitrimblue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:20 - Nov 1 by factual_blue | How did they grow their concrete without John Innes no.3? |
Good question, though unfortunately well above my pay grade. You would need to speak to a specialist concrete growing/dating consultant. I know that you can date concrete by counting the rings but that's about it | | | |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:32 - Nov 1 with 1136 views | WeWereZombies |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:26 - Nov 1 by leitrimblue | Good question, though unfortunately well above my pay grade. You would need to speak to a specialist concrete growing/dating consultant. I know that you can date concrete by counting the rings but that's about it |
Think you are being very unfair on concrete, can send it out of the workshop in any length or width without the need to saw or plane, no need to wait around for it to age beyond a bit of setting time, no risk of getting splinters either. Bit of a challenge for French Polishers though... | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:34 - Nov 1 with 1122 views | factual_blue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 08:11 - Nov 1 by leitrimblue | Sorry Bluedicea, there really isn't such a thing as the dark ages. It was incorrectly labelled the dark ages by classicists who considered it so compared to what they believed to be the 'cultural highpoints' of the Greeks an Romans. In reality it was far from dark, look at Ireland for example between 400-800 AD. I would suggest it's the highpoint of Celtic culture and art(book of Kell's etc) (see also picts in Scotland) |
And of course art and culture was flourishing in other parts of the world at this time. But of course the predominantly German classicists and historians of the 19th century were Eurocentric. I remember my introduction to all this being The Barbarian West 400-1000 by J M Wallace-Hadrill | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:36 - Nov 1 with 1111 views | factual_blue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:32 - Nov 1 by WeWereZombies | Think you are being very unfair on concrete, can send it out of the workshop in any length or width without the need to saw or plane, no need to wait around for it to age beyond a bit of setting time, no risk of getting splinters either. Bit of a challenge for French Polishers though... |
Surely using Polish polishers would be cheaper? Or have they all gone back home to Walsall? | |
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Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:38 - Nov 1 with 1104 views | leitrimblue |
Boris rewriting history - quite literally… on 12:32 - Nov 1 by WeWereZombies | Think you are being very unfair on concrete, can send it out of the workshop in any length or width without the need to saw or plane, no need to wait around for it to age beyond a bit of setting time, no risk of getting splinters either. Bit of a challenge for French Polishers though... |
Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with concrete. It's just that Romans have managed to blag it that they were the greatest empire the world is ever seen when in reality their greatest achievement is undoubtedly producing a product that gives you a flat surface for building on. | | | |
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