| Part of the problem 11:40 - Aug 29 with 1946 views | Guthrum |
is how this season is looked at.
The previous two, we had the achievable, if hugely unlikely and difficult, goal of promotion. There was a feeling that we would do better than expected, give it a good go. That our rivals, if stronger then we, were not insurmountably so.
This time, the barest survival, miserably fingernail-clinging, is supposedly the best we can hope for - and, by many, considered still beyond our reach. There is no joy in it, only fear and gloom. At best a grim determination.
Starting from that low base, fan morale takes a further battering from the fight to keep hold of McKenna, transfer struggles and disappointments, our opening schedule against two of the strongest teams in the world, then messing up in a cup game.
I think we need to start taking an attitude of not caring - about perceptions, the comments of others, or even the state of the table. Treat this season as a raid into the top division, enjoy every performance, take every game as it comes. Pay no attention to the eventual outcome, leave that responsibility to the Manager and coaches. Who knows, we may prevail, be one of the teams (there usually is) who finishes well above mere safety in the first season back up? Raiders often end up settling.
I'm not saying to concede an inevitability of relegation, quite the opposite. Lose the nagging fear of going back down, rise up above the patronising doom which others are trying to put upon us. The team are going to give it a bl00dy good go, we don't need to be surrounding them with clouds of gloom.
Change our expectations from barest survival to making an impact. We're vastly unlikely to finish in the top six, but we can upset a few applecarts, have some glorious triumphs. Then see how things turn out in May. |  |
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| Part of the problem on 12:03 - Aug 29 with 1778 views | HighgateBlue |
That is a perfectly fair attitude.
Personally for me, one of the biggest disappointments about last night was that I /was/ still optimistic, and the result sort of deflated that bubble a bit. I wasn't disappointed with the transfer window (yes, we need a number 9) at all, I thought we have a really decent chance of staying up, including after the Liverpool and Man City results and performances. It's sensible to view Man City and Liverpool as being two of the best teams in the world, and still be optimistic that we can beat lesser teams. But then to lose to a team in the 4th division is really a big punch in the guts. I understand that we made a fair few changes, and that a number of our players were fresh through the door. But it just has an impact on the previous optimism that I had, and that I thought was based on objective assessment of KMac and the squad.
Oh well, I guess I need to get over it, realise that it really is not a competition to be worried about, and reinstate the optimism. I'm certainly not resigned to relegation by a long chalk. The next four games, over the next month, will tell us a lot. Liverpool and Man City were outliers because of their massive quality, Wimbledon was an outlier because it was a silly cup, they were well up for it, tiny ground, and loads of changes to personnel. But every match can't be an outlier, and home to Fulham will be a great bellwether. |  | | |
| Part of the problem on 12:10 - Aug 29 with 1729 views | BloomBlue |
But in many ways that is the PL.
A friend is a lifelong Brentford fan and he's always made that point, when in the Championship, L1,L2 it was about promotion, once they reached the Prem it was about survival.
In the non Prem leagues it was about pushing constantly to the end of the season to finish in the top 6, in the Prem it's about reaching 40 points. Then once you hit 40 points, everyone takes a deep breath and says 'OK we can go on holiday now'
But he still won't change being in the Prem for the Championship |  | | |
| Part of the problem on 12:12 - Aug 29 with 1721 views | homer_123 |
| Part of the problem on 12:03 - Aug 29 by HighgateBlue |
That is a perfectly fair attitude.
Personally for me, one of the biggest disappointments about last night was that I /was/ still optimistic, and the result sort of deflated that bubble a bit. I wasn't disappointed with the transfer window (yes, we need a number 9) at all, I thought we have a really decent chance of staying up, including after the Liverpool and Man City results and performances. It's sensible to view Man City and Liverpool as being two of the best teams in the world, and still be optimistic that we can beat lesser teams. But then to lose to a team in the 4th division is really a big punch in the guts. I understand that we made a fair few changes, and that a number of our players were fresh through the door. But it just has an impact on the previous optimism that I had, and that I thought was based on objective assessment of KMac and the squad.
Oh well, I guess I need to get over it, realise that it really is not a competition to be worried about, and reinstate the optimism. I'm certainly not resigned to relegation by a long chalk. The next four games, over the next month, will tell us a lot. Liverpool and Man City were outliers because of their massive quality, Wimbledon was an outlier because it was a silly cup, they were well up for it, tiny ground, and loads of changes to personnel. But every match can't be an outlier, and home to Fulham will be a great bellwether. |
With the greatest respect, I think this is where we need to look at ourselves and the wider picture.
For me, there is nothing in the 3 games that we have played this season to suggest that we need to worry unduly.
No one likes losing, and the performance last night was not great but the reaction from many has been incredible. So many have looked at last night in isolation and from that extrapolated utter doom.
There were news posters calling time on KM!
We need to look at the bigger picture and also accept that this has happened (Prem football) much quicker than anyone anticipated and therefore, that makes this year even tougher.
I posted well before the season starts that I'm going to enjoy this season for what it is, regardless.
How quickly people forget the last 15 years or so........ |  |
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| Part of the problem on 12:18 - Aug 29 with 1632 views | _clive_baker_ |
I don't think our 1st promotion was unlikely. We had the best squad at that level and the biggest budget. There was a lot of expectation, so much so that away draws were being booed in February.
Agree with the approach to this season, although rather than not caring which is an impossible thing for me to ask of myself, we need a healthy dose of realism. Long established premier league sides go to Man City and get pumped by 3 goals, much better teams than us will do that this season, so we need to be realistic. Having said that its not unreasonable to expect us to progress past Wimbledon in the cup.
Progression isn't always linear. We've come a long way in a short time, and even if we are to go down this season we're probably going to be one of the top 6 fancied sides to get promoted from the Championship which is a far cry from where we were not long ago. We need to not become victims of our own success and keep our feet on the ground a bit.
All that said its all to play for this season, I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from the opening 2 games. A lot of change, top top quality opposition and there have been some encouraging sings. And we've got an absolutely superb manager who will achieve a lot in the game. You're quite right, we need that level of optimism, enjoy the ride, have fun with it. What's the point otherwise? |  | | |
| Part of the problem on 12:20 - Aug 29 with 1597 views | Guthrum |
| Part of the problem on 12:03 - Aug 29 by HighgateBlue |
That is a perfectly fair attitude.
Personally for me, one of the biggest disappointments about last night was that I /was/ still optimistic, and the result sort of deflated that bubble a bit. I wasn't disappointed with the transfer window (yes, we need a number 9) at all, I thought we have a really decent chance of staying up, including after the Liverpool and Man City results and performances. It's sensible to view Man City and Liverpool as being two of the best teams in the world, and still be optimistic that we can beat lesser teams. But then to lose to a team in the 4th division is really a big punch in the guts. I understand that we made a fair few changes, and that a number of our players were fresh through the door. But it just has an impact on the previous optimism that I had, and that I thought was based on objective assessment of KMac and the squad.
Oh well, I guess I need to get over it, realise that it really is not a competition to be worried about, and reinstate the optimism. I'm certainly not resigned to relegation by a long chalk. The next four games, over the next month, will tell us a lot. Liverpool and Man City were outliers because of their massive quality, Wimbledon was an outlier because it was a silly cup, they were well up for it, tiny ground, and loads of changes to personnel. But every match can't be an outlier, and home to Fulham will be a great bellwether. |
That's a good way of putting it. Last night's result felt very 'deflating'.
However, the balloon was a little saggy already, with the various things I mentions stealing some of the joy we felt in May. That's why I think we need to take a different approach to this season. There is no promotion to hope for. European qualification is a big stretch given the extreme disparity between the top teams and the rest. But we don't want to be concentrating too much on the drop, it will only sour the atmosphere still further.
That is why I used the term "raid". An excursion to grab what we can and do as much damage as possible. To seize good things from our rivals and, if possible, bloody the noses of the big boys. Let league position sort itself out. Come the end of the season, we may find we have carved ourselves out a comfortable niche. | |
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| Part of the problem on 12:21 - Aug 29 with 1564 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Part of the problem on 12:12 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
With the greatest respect, I think this is where we need to look at ourselves and the wider picture.
For me, there is nothing in the 3 games that we have played this season to suggest that we need to worry unduly.
No one likes losing, and the performance last night was not great but the reaction from many has been incredible. So many have looked at last night in isolation and from that extrapolated utter doom.
There were news posters calling time on KM!
We need to look at the bigger picture and also accept that this has happened (Prem football) much quicker than anyone anticipated and therefore, that makes this year even tougher.
I posted well before the season starts that I'm going to enjoy this season for what it is, regardless.
How quickly people forget the last 15 years or so........ |
Problem is there is a very large amount of 2 year town supporters, its natural but it won't make social media a happy place when things don't go well.
Yes I had a rant on saturday, but it was absolutely in the moment, I was quickly over it and it was mistake specific in game, but the result for reason still stung some people regardless of who we were playing.
2 years of winning nearly everygame, 10000 goals, 30 shots at goal a game, this is a different type of football now, we're kinda back to lambert football, that's not in anyway a negative of anything KM has or is doing, it's just the way prem football is, it's a chess game. It needs patience and a lot of it to watch compared to previous 2 years
BTW, i am not comparing KM with lambert, I make that clear, I just mean the football itself is similar in the way that attacks do tend to break down alot more than ending with something.
There will be a loud minority, it's a given considering the number of new or renewed supporters involved now. [Post edited 29 Aug 2024 12:23]
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| Part of the problem on 12:25 - Aug 29 with 1485 views | Vegtablue |
It's a great mindset but I think it fits well with 'hoping to survive' expectations too. Don't focus on the outcome, don't focus on the state of the table, just live in the moment and enjoy the ride. Que sera, sera (no Wembley edition).
In 22/23 expectations were to seriously challenge for promotion. To not have succeeded would have been a failure. In 23/24 expectations were mixed, mostly somewhere between play-offs and lower mid-table. Donning child-like eyes and abandoning one's sense of realism may be the best course for some, particularly if that realism is gloom to them, but for others it will make their reaction to losses even worse. That isn't to say that narrow survival is the only realistic positive outcome, but for many narrow survival would be considered a huge success. I remember the jubilance of other fans from last-day survival in this league well.
For those who typically take losing very badly, and for those who are known to vent in the stands when the result is eluding them, remembering what the neutral expectations of us are may provide a useful tonic. People should strive for positivity and enthusiasm however they're best able to find it, because supporters impact games. We saw during Covid how home points were negatively impacted by empty stadiums. If we bring the noise every time, especially when the chips are down, we'll genuinely have a better outcome overall, as well as a much more enjoyable year. |  | | |
| Part of the problem on 13:03 - Aug 29 with 1269 views | Garv |
"I think we need to start taking an attitude of not caring - about perceptions, the comments of others, or even the state of the table. Treat this season as a raid into the top division, enjoy every performance, take every game as it comes. Pay no attention to the eventual outcome, leave that responsibility to the Manager and coaches. Who knows, we may prevail, be one of the teams (there usually is) who finishes well above mere safety in the first season back up? Raiders often end up settling."
Anyone not doing this already is mental. What's the point is supporting a football team if you can't cope with the odd bit of adversity? Obvious links to the club motto there.
For what it's worth I think we'll finish 14th. |  |
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| Part of the problem on 13:06 - Aug 29 with 1236 views | HighgateBlue |
| Part of the problem on 12:12 - Aug 29 by homer_123 |
With the greatest respect, I think this is where we need to look at ourselves and the wider picture.
For me, there is nothing in the 3 games that we have played this season to suggest that we need to worry unduly.
No one likes losing, and the performance last night was not great but the reaction from many has been incredible. So many have looked at last night in isolation and from that extrapolated utter doom.
There were news posters calling time on KM!
We need to look at the bigger picture and also accept that this has happened (Prem football) much quicker than anyone anticipated and therefore, that makes this year even tougher.
I posted well before the season starts that I'm going to enjoy this season for what it is, regardless.
How quickly people forget the last 15 years or so........ |
Yes this is all very fair.
Calling time on KM at any stage has been total total folly. I love a good 'toys out the pram' once we've had a terrible result, but KM is so clearly the single greatest asset our club has, and in my view the greatest up and coming manager in the English leagues. He's probably got the best chance (of anyone currently managing) of being the first English-born manager to win the premier league. I really do think he's the realest deal.
I think it's OK for last night to be a bit deflating. But a sense of doom (utter or otherwise) is not something that it should generate. I shall get my metaphorical bike pump and inflate the optimism again for Fulham. I saw us play them last year and they appeared to be a good yard stick of where we would need to be if we ever made it to the Prem. Now we're there, it will be another test of that yard stick. If we lose, as with any single league game this side of spring, it is not the end of the world.
Ypur attitude of enjoying the season for what it is, is a good one. I shall try and probably largely succeed to do the same. But I think I would find it easier to have that attitude if I genuinely thought we had no real hope - it's the hope that kills you! :)
[I'm not implying that you must think we have no hope, not at all. It's just a reflection of my own psychology and probably immaturity!] | | | |
| Part of the problem on 13:22 - Aug 29 with 1139 views | homer_123 |
| Part of the problem on 13:03 - Aug 29 by Garv |
"I think we need to start taking an attitude of not caring - about perceptions, the comments of others, or even the state of the table. Treat this season as a raid into the top division, enjoy every performance, take every game as it comes. Pay no attention to the eventual outcome, leave that responsibility to the Manager and coaches. Who knows, we may prevail, be one of the teams (there usually is) who finishes well above mere safety in the first season back up? Raiders often end up settling."
Anyone not doing this already is mental. What's the point is supporting a football team if you can't cope with the odd bit of adversity? Obvious links to the club motto there.
For what it's worth I think we'll finish 14th. |
Moreover there is adversity and adversity.
I'd say the last 20 years has been worth getting annoyed, angry and frustrated over.
A loss to Wimbledon (in the scheme of things) is nothing. | |
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| Part of the problem on 13:28 - Aug 29 with 1085 views | homer_123 |
| Part of the problem on 13:06 - Aug 29 by HighgateBlue |
Yes this is all very fair.
Calling time on KM at any stage has been total total folly. I love a good 'toys out the pram' once we've had a terrible result, but KM is so clearly the single greatest asset our club has, and in my view the greatest up and coming manager in the English leagues. He's probably got the best chance (of anyone currently managing) of being the first English-born manager to win the premier league. I really do think he's the realest deal.
I think it's OK for last night to be a bit deflating. But a sense of doom (utter or otherwise) is not something that it should generate. I shall get my metaphorical bike pump and inflate the optimism again for Fulham. I saw us play them last year and they appeared to be a good yard stick of where we would need to be if we ever made it to the Prem. Now we're there, it will be another test of that yard stick. If we lose, as with any single league game this side of spring, it is not the end of the world.
Ypur attitude of enjoying the season for what it is, is a good one. I shall try and probably largely succeed to do the same. But I think I would find it easier to have that attitude if I genuinely thought we had no real hope - it's the hope that kills you! :)
[I'm not implying that you must think we have no hope, not at all. It's just a reflection of my own psychology and probably immaturity!] |
And that's the difference.
So, take last night, we can discuss, debate, question some of that defending without the need to suggest that's the end, we've had it, it's all gone wrong.
And yes, I fully appreciate that some like to 'vent'!
I think some would benefit from pinching themselves and realising not only where we are but why and how we got here. | |
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