| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 07:34 - Jan 14 with 2367 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Good news although it’s hard not to be cynical at this point since it’s not the first time the US said a deal is close. Fingers crossed for an end to the horror.
This only appears to be in relation to Gaza, so whether Israel will continue its campaign with what’s left of Hezbollah is unclear. Presumably with the regime change in Syria, Hezbollah’s murderous campaign in the Syrian Civil War has also ended. |  | |  |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:09 - Jan 14 with 2282 views | DJR |
Jeremy Bowen on the Today Programme said that Trump's incoming Middle East envoy, who has been involved in the negotiations, had met Netanyahu and read him the riot act if a ceasefire wasn't sorted out. This follows on from Trump saying "all hell will break loose" if a ceasefire wasn't in place by the inaugaration.
There is clearly something going on because the parties are in the same building for the first time.
Those on the right of the Israeli coalition government are not happy but given Trump is generally very supportive of Israel maybe they will just have to lump it, rather than bringing down the government. [Post edited 14 Jan 9:09]
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:08 - Jan 14 with 2167 views | DJR |
Interesting quote from the spokesman for the Qatari foreign minister.
"We especially appreciate the roles of both the Biden administration and the incoming Trump administration in the talks in the past couple of weeks, they have been involved fully in the talks. They were working in tandem together here in Doha and beyond in the region to make sure that the deal happens.
And we appreciate statements by both president Biden and president-elect Trump that were helpful in pushing the deal forward." | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:21 - Jan 14 with 2146 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:08 - Jan 14 by DJR |
Interesting quote from the spokesman for the Qatari foreign minister.
"We especially appreciate the roles of both the Biden administration and the incoming Trump administration in the talks in the past couple of weeks, they have been involved fully in the talks. They were working in tandem together here in Doha and beyond in the region to make sure that the deal happens.
And we appreciate statements by both president Biden and president-elect Trump that were helpful in pushing the deal forward." |
That won’t stop Trump claiming sole credit.
Fingers crossed this gets sorted though, however and whoever is involved. Quite what the future holds isn’t clear, especially if now Hamas have withdrawn their insistence that Israeli troops must withdraw. Won’t they just end up with a military occupation and ongoing brutality (probably better than indiscriminate bombing I suppose)? |  |
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 15:52 - Jan 14 with 2092 views | DJR |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:21 - Jan 14 by Swansea_Blue |
That won’t stop Trump claiming sole credit.
Fingers crossed this gets sorted though, however and whoever is involved. Quite what the future holds isn’t clear, especially if now Hamas have withdrawn their insistence that Israeli troops must withdraw. Won’t they just end up with a military occupation and ongoing brutality (probably better than indiscriminate bombing I suppose)? |
If a ceasefire does happen and hostages are released maybe Trump will deserve credit, given this from the Guardian, although as you say quite what may happen down the line is very difficult to say.
Writing for Haaretz, in an op-ed Amos Harel argues that in appearing to come to an agreement with Hamas, Benjamin Netanyahu has “folded under [Donald] Trump’s pressure.”
Harel writes that “the incoming president has much more leverage over Netanyahu and the Egyptian and Qatari mediators than does the outgoing president, Joe Biden.”
He stated that at his meeting with Netanyahu, Trump’s special Middle East envoy, Steven Witkoff, told the prime minister that the president-elect expected a deal to be done. Harel continues:
"Things that Netanyahu had termed life-and-death issues suddenly vanished.
Netanyahu’s claim that only military pressure will lead to the release of hostages – a claim that has sometimes been backed by the IDF brass – has proven to be baseless. And now, the prime minister is folding." | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 21:24 - Jan 14 with 2024 views | Crawfordsboot |
Don’t lose sight of the big picture which is.
Israel are key promoters of US interest in the balance of power in the Middle East. ( In other words protecting their oil interests).
There is no way that the US can be an honest broker.
Israel is following a tried and tested pattern of taking over land, settling it and/or removing Palestinians, then negotiate a ceasefire but hanging on to the bits of land they want.
Year on year the Palestinians get left with less and less. Israel operates a system of apartheid.
We should call it out for what it is - I am ashamed of our political response to what is happening. |  | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 22:20 - Jan 14 with 1983 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 21:24 - Jan 14 by Crawfordsboot |
Don’t lose sight of the big picture which is.
Israel are key promoters of US interest in the balance of power in the Middle East. ( In other words protecting their oil interests).
There is no way that the US can be an honest broker.
Israel is following a tried and tested pattern of taking over land, settling it and/or removing Palestinians, then negotiate a ceasefire but hanging on to the bits of land they want.
Year on year the Palestinians get left with less and less. Israel operates a system of apartheid.
We should call it out for what it is - I am ashamed of our political response to what is happening. |
“ US interest in the balance of power in the Middle East. ( In other words protecting their oil interests).”
Citation required.
Which interests are those, the US imported less than 12pc of its oil from the region last year most of which was from Saudi which is largely extracted by state run companies. US consumption of ME oil and gas has been historically declining and is now at a record low, due to the instability in the region, increased (US) domestic onshore production, and more economic transportation from Canada. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 08:03 - Jan 15 with 1811 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 22:20 - Jan 14 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ US interest in the balance of power in the Middle East. ( In other words protecting their oil interests).”
Citation required.
Which interests are those, the US imported less than 12pc of its oil from the region last year most of which was from Saudi which is largely extracted by state run companies. US consumption of ME oil and gas has been historically declining and is now at a record low, due to the instability in the region, increased (US) domestic onshore production, and more economic transportation from Canada. |
The US is highly motivated to maintain its leading power position and to keep Russia, China from making any advance into the region. Its allies, particularly Saudi and Israel act as its buffer. The US has repeatedly frustrated attempts to rein in Israel or criticise Saudi. Time and again it has single handedly vetoed motions from the UN and others on the world stage. It has also funded Israel with billions of dollars in funding and weaponry.
If you have any doubt on this i would suggest you read “The myth of American idealism - How US foreign policy endangers the world” Chapter 5 in particular.
Through its proxies the US in effect controls one of the world’s key sources of cheap energy for the western industrial machine. Of course it doesn’t need to use all that energy itself but it ensures that it is available to its general market. | | | |
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 08:06 - Jan 15 with 1810 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 08:03 - Jan 15 by Crawfordsboot |
The US is highly motivated to maintain its leading power position and to keep Russia, China from making any advance into the region. Its allies, particularly Saudi and Israel act as its buffer. The US has repeatedly frustrated attempts to rein in Israel or criticise Saudi. Time and again it has single handedly vetoed motions from the UN and others on the world stage. It has also funded Israel with billions of dollars in funding and weaponry.
If you have any doubt on this i would suggest you read “The myth of American idealism - How US foreign policy endangers the world” Chapter 5 in particular.
Through its proxies the US in effect controls one of the world’s key sources of cheap energy for the western industrial machine. Of course it doesn’t need to use all that energy itself but it ensures that it is available to its general market. |
Okay so the ‘using Isreal to defend its oil interests” was a made up soundbite, thanks for clearing that up. The world’s largest energy consumers outside the US are Russia, China, India - hardly US allies.
We can all moan about American hegemony, but there’s far worse regimes that could take their place - wait until China are the preeminent military power… [Post edited 15 Jan 8:10]
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 08:54 - Jan 15 with 1762 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 08:06 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Okay so the ‘using Isreal to defend its oil interests” was a made up soundbite, thanks for clearing that up. The world’s largest energy consumers outside the US are Russia, China, India - hardly US allies.
We can all moan about American hegemony, but there’s far worse regimes that could take their place - wait until China are the preeminent military power… [Post edited 15 Jan 8:10]
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Not at all. The US oil interest is to keep it out of the hands of those you mention.
“Anyone who has control over this major source of the world’s cheap energy is in a very strong position to play an effective role in ordering and organising the world”
Page 136 of Chomsky’ book.
The US moved in replacing the UK, who had previously exercised power in the Middle East. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:00 - Jan 15 with 1737 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 08:54 - Jan 15 by Crawfordsboot |
Not at all. The US oil interest is to keep it out of the hands of those you mention.
“Anyone who has control over this major source of the world’s cheap energy is in a very strong position to play an effective role in ordering and organising the world”
Page 136 of Chomsky’ book.
The US moved in replacing the UK, who had previously exercised power in the Middle East. |
Right, but you do realise the oil is sold on the open market to anybody including China, Russia, India? | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:29 - Jan 15 with 1696 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:00 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Right, but you do realise the oil is sold on the open market to anybody including China, Russia, India? |
Of course I do - but I also understand that the US works to retain influence over this key resource. It does so by supporting regimes and, if those regimes turn against them, removing them.
Are you aware of any other motivation for the US to support and enable the Saudi regime, or to veto international moves to criticise Israeli action in Palestine? | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 10:07 - Jan 15 with 1638 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:29 - Jan 15 by Crawfordsboot |
Of course I do - but I also understand that the US works to retain influence over this key resource. It does so by supporting regimes and, if those regimes turn against them, removing them.
Are you aware of any other motivation for the US to support and enable the Saudi regime, or to veto international moves to criticise Israeli action in Palestine? |
So what is their (US) influence if Saudi can sell it to whoever they want? The Saudi regime buy and sell oil from/to Russia as they don’t have to follow US sanctions regimes. In fact they are now the biggest importers of Russian oil.
So I’m still waiting on some evidence that the US are using Israel to somehow control access to Middle Eastern commodities. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:12 - Jan 15 with 1579 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 10:07 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
So what is their (US) influence if Saudi can sell it to whoever they want? The Saudi regime buy and sell oil from/to Russia as they don’t have to follow US sanctions regimes. In fact they are now the biggest importers of Russian oil.
So I’m still waiting on some evidence that the US are using Israel to somehow control access to Middle Eastern commodities. |
I can only repeat that the US defends, enables and protects its allies in the region.
The Carter Doctrine makes this very clear. President Carters address to the Union - “An attempt by any outside for to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and as such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.”
Similarly in explains the first Gulf War George H.W. Bush did not shy away from invoking oil as a justification. “Our jobs, our way of life, our own freedom, and the freedom of friendly countries around the world would all suffer if control of the worlds great oil reserves fell into the wrong hands”
Former CENTOM (US central command) commander John Abizaid discussing US involvement in the Middle East generally said “Of course it’s about oil. It’s very much about oil and we can’t really deny that.
I can’t make it any plainer | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:32 - Jan 15 with 1549 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:12 - Jan 15 by Crawfordsboot |
I can only repeat that the US defends, enables and protects its allies in the region.
The Carter Doctrine makes this very clear. President Carters address to the Union - “An attempt by any outside for to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and as such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.”
Similarly in explains the first Gulf War George H.W. Bush did not shy away from invoking oil as a justification. “Our jobs, our way of life, our own freedom, and the freedom of friendly countries around the world would all suffer if control of the worlds great oil reserves fell into the wrong hands”
Former CENTOM (US central command) commander John Abizaid discussing US involvement in the Middle East generally said “Of course it’s about oil. It’s very much about oil and we can’t really deny that.
I can’t make it any plainer |
Carter was in the 70’s and the Gulf War was over 30 years ago. The US greatly boosted domestic production since then with an explosion of fracking and deep water exploration in the GOM. Precisely because the (ME) region was so unstable, they moved to improve energy security and avoid economic shocks. This worked to their benefit as they were suddenly able to export gas to their allies after western sanctions on Russia disrupted supplies. Since then Russia has become an energy superpower and is now exporting TO the Middle East.
So most of what you are saying is outdated and irrelevant. The US has virtually no influence on ME oil and gas exports hence they are freely trading it with Russia. The US does arm and back it’s allies in the region (and worldwide) as does virtually every major power. This is largely a geopolitical play to counterbalance Iranian influence, and has little to do with oil. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 13:31 - Jan 15 with 1512 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:32 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Carter was in the 70’s and the Gulf War was over 30 years ago. The US greatly boosted domestic production since then with an explosion of fracking and deep water exploration in the GOM. Precisely because the (ME) region was so unstable, they moved to improve energy security and avoid economic shocks. This worked to their benefit as they were suddenly able to export gas to their allies after western sanctions on Russia disrupted supplies. Since then Russia has become an energy superpower and is now exporting TO the Middle East.
So most of what you are saying is outdated and irrelevant. The US has virtually no influence on ME oil and gas exports hence they are freely trading it with Russia. The US does arm and back it’s allies in the region (and worldwide) as does virtually every major power. This is largely a geopolitical play to counterbalance Iranian influence, and has little to do with oil. |
Yes two of the quotes are dated though the final one came from the guy who was US ambassador to Saudi until 2023.
The link below provides an interesting overview of the situation over many decades up to the current day and highlights the strategic importance of oil through the ups and downs in prices and production.
https://www.cfr.org/timeline/oil-dependence-and-us-foreign-policy
If in the face of this you believe US policy in the Middle East is not influenced by oil i will not be able to persuade you otherwise. You asked for sources and I have provided them.
My interest moves on to another conundrum. The fate of Philly jeans. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 21:40 - Jan 15 with 1364 views | DJR |
Good news, and nice to see photos of joy on the faces of ordinary people in Gaza and hostage families on the streets of Israel.
Bernie puts it well.
US senator Bernie Sanders, a progressive of Vermont, celebrated the announcement of a ceasefire deal in Gaza as “welcome, long-overdue news”.
“Both sides must honor the deal and implement it as quickly as possible. The senseless killing must stop. The hostages must be released,” Sanders said in a new statement.
"The United Nations and other aid organizations must finally be allowed unfettered access to all areas of the Gaza Strip to provide the massive amounts of humanitarian aid that is desperately needed. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are struggling to survive, lacking food, water, and medical care in the middle of winter. Innocent lives hang in the balance."
Sanders, who has become one of the most vocal critics of the Israeli government in the US Congress, emphasized that the deal represented “just the first step to restoring peace”.
“The international community must insist that the ceasefire be sustained and formalized. A plan for rebuilding Gaza and establishing peaceful Palestinian governance of the area must be laid out,” he said.
"And there must be accountability for the many war crimes committed by both sides in this terrible conflict." [Post edited 15 Jan 21:41]
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:16 - Jan 16 with 1179 views | DJR |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 21:40 - Jan 15 by DJR |
Good news, and nice to see photos of joy on the faces of ordinary people in Gaza and hostage families on the streets of Israel.
Bernie puts it well.
US senator Bernie Sanders, a progressive of Vermont, celebrated the announcement of a ceasefire deal in Gaza as “welcome, long-overdue news”.
“Both sides must honor the deal and implement it as quickly as possible. The senseless killing must stop. The hostages must be released,” Sanders said in a new statement.
"The United Nations and other aid organizations must finally be allowed unfettered access to all areas of the Gaza Strip to provide the massive amounts of humanitarian aid that is desperately needed. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are struggling to survive, lacking food, water, and medical care in the middle of winter. Innocent lives hang in the balance."
Sanders, who has become one of the most vocal critics of the Israeli government in the US Congress, emphasized that the deal represented “just the first step to restoring peace”.
“The international community must insist that the ceasefire be sustained and formalized. A plan for rebuilding Gaza and establishing peaceful Palestinian governance of the area must be laid out,” he said.
"And there must be accountability for the many war crimes committed by both sides in this terrible conflict." [Post edited 15 Jan 21:41]
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Not such good news for the 20 or so Gazans killed overnight. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:17 - Jan 16 with 1176 views | DJR |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 12:21 - Jan 14 by Swansea_Blue |
That won’t stop Trump claiming sole credit.
Fingers crossed this gets sorted though, however and whoever is involved. Quite what the future holds isn’t clear, especially if now Hamas have withdrawn their insistence that Israeli troops must withdraw. Won’t they just end up with a military occupation and ongoing brutality (probably better than indiscriminate bombing I suppose)? |
You're not wrong!
“This EPIC ceasefire agreement could have only happened as a result of our Historic Victory in November, as it signalled to the entire World that my Administration would seek Peace and negotiate deals to ensure the safety of all Americans, and our Allies,” [Post edited 16 Jan 9:17]
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:21 - Jan 16 with 1158 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:17 - Jan 16 by DJR |
You're not wrong!
“This EPIC ceasefire agreement could have only happened as a result of our Historic Victory in November, as it signalled to the entire World that my Administration would seek Peace and negotiate deals to ensure the safety of all Americans, and our Allies,” [Post edited 16 Jan 9:17]
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In fairness, his not so thinly veiled thread to bomb the fcuk out of Iran if the hostages weren’t released by the time of his inauguration seems to have focused minds in Tehran. |  |
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:34 - Jan 16 with 1132 views | DJR |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:21 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
In fairness, his not so thinly veiled thread to bomb the fcuk out of Iran if the hostages weren’t released by the time of his inauguration seems to have focused minds in Tehran. |
I was fair to him in my earlier post at 15:52 on 14 January, but given what I posted I am not sure that threats to Iran played a big part, given how weakened it now is. | | | |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:42 - Jan 16 with 1100 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:34 - Jan 16 by DJR |
I was fair to him in my earlier post at 15:52 on 14 January, but given what I posted I am not sure that threats to Iran played a big part, given how weakened it now is. |
Iran still calls the shots when it comes to Hamas. | |
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 10:02 - Jan 16 with 1064 views | DJR |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:42 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Iran still calls the shots when it comes to Hamas. |
But it seems to me the main stumbling block has been Netanyahu (or maybe his backers), given the current deal has been on the table for many months.
Indeed, he has just thrown a spanner in the works.
As it is, Iran may support Hamas but I don't think without its support Hamas wouldn't exist or be prepared to act as it does, being a successor of sorts to the PLO which long pre-dated the Iranian revolution.
Putting it another way, I think Iran's main focus is opposition to Israel rather than support for Hamas, which after all is a Sunni group (unlike Hezbollah and the Houtis which are Shiite groups). [Post edited 16 Jan 10:03]
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| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 10:14 - Jan 16 with 1017 views | DJR |
| Gaza ceasefire deal reportedly being finalised on 09:16 - Jan 16 by DJR |
Not such good news for the 20 or so Gazans killed overnight. |
It's increased to 73, including 20 children and 25 women. | | | |
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