| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street 09:02 - Sep 2 with 2195 views | nrb1985 |
The whole “loyalty” / “ripping the heart and soul out of the double promotion team” thing has really taken hold on here the last 48 hours.
But the way I see it, Kieran McKenna gave a group of EFL also-rans the best days of their careers — their moment in the sun — plus unimaginable riches from double-promotion bonuses and a year of PL wages.
Take Burgess, Tuanzebe, Morsy, even Woolfy. Of course you’d have hoped they’d stay, given what KM did for them. But let’s be honest — Woolfy and Burgess were mid-table League One defenders when he arrived. Morsy was a journeyman. Now they’re all earning more than they ever thought possible.
And yet, after all that, I don’t think we saw a whole lot of loyalty in return. They’ve gone, fair enough — but let’s not pretend they got a bum deal out of ITFC. They’ll be reaping the rewards of the last three years for the rest of their lives.
For me, KM will always be a legend here. Time people stopped moaning, gave him the credit he deserves, and got behind him and the new team now. [Post edited 2 Sep 9:05]
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:05 - Sep 2 with 1920 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Why do some people feel the need to label their posts as 'controversial' or 'unpopular'?
Thats for others to decide. |  |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:23 - Sep 2 with 1799 views | nrb1985 |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:05 - Sep 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Why do some people feel the need to label their posts as 'controversial' or 'unpopular'?
Thats for others to decide. |
Are you still upset I had to explain to you how maths and investing work yesterday? | | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:34 - Sep 2 with 1728 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:23 - Sep 2 by nrb1985 |
Are you still upset I had to explain to you how maths and investing work yesterday? |
Still sore that I corrected you?
🤣🤣🤣🤣 | |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:37 - Sep 2 with 1685 views | SWLondonBlue93 |
As it sounds like some have decided the squad that picked up 96 points was bang average, I look forward to this new squad shattering all records this season, will be fun to watch. [Post edited 2 Sep 9:38]
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:51 - Sep 2 with 1599 views | BloomBlue |
Football is job, and how an employee shows loyalty is to do their job to the best of their ability.
Those players won us two promotions, they did their job to the best of their ability, there is no better demonstration of loyalty than that.
The fact many of them weren't selected was based on playing the players who cost the most, rather than ability.
The players want more game time, they aren't thick, they know the team will be selected based on cost. We've seen that with Broadhead versus Clarke, Clarke did nothing to warrant selection ahead of Broadhead, other than he cost more money.
Chaplin on Saturday wasn't afraid to battle for the football, while Philogene watched the pigeons flying over.
The double winners demonstrated as much loyalty as any player in Town's history.
It's now up to the new expensive players who have joined us last/this season to start showing loyalty and stick their foot in where it hurts, being brave and start winning games. |  | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:00 - Sep 2 with 1521 views | Bobbychase |
Spot on. And I find it odd that the people bemoaning the loss of the band of brothers team are often the same ones saying McKenna needs to be questioned - when he masterminded the whole thing!
Fans have a choice now. We can either sit and moan and look back or look forward. Whatever happens now in terms of atmosphere etc is not set in stone, it's up to us. |  |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:01 - Sep 2 with 1511 views | nrb1985 |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:34 - Sep 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Still sore that I corrected you?
🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
Yep - I’m 100% sure that’s what readers of yesterday’s thread took away with them. | | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:03 - Sep 2 with 1501 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:37 - Sep 2 by SWLondonBlue93 |
As it sounds like some have decided the squad that picked up 96 points was bang average, I look forward to this new squad shattering all records this season, will be fun to watch. [Post edited 2 Sep 9:38]
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Could that team do it again, this season? Without Hutchinson and tuanzebe for absolute certainty and probably a few more who wanted to move on and weren't pushed? Should we have kept them all through the prem season and played them all for 3 seasons in a row?
If not I'm not sure what point you, and others are making. Yes it was an absolutely amazing tight squad better than the sum of its parts and an unrepeatable brilliant season. It has changed multiple times since in many ways, so how does clinging on to that team and squad help now? It's gone, it was gone the second we went up, just because we can't repeat it specifically doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to upgrade and develop. We are dealing with where we are this season, not trying to resurrect a unicorn from a couple of years ago. |  | | |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:07 - Sep 2 with 1470 views | blueoutlook |
Can’t see I’m that excited to be honest. We look a very poor championship team at the moment and I’m not convinced KM knows what he is doing anymore. |  | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:08 - Sep 2 with 1461 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:01 - Sep 2 by nrb1985 |
Yep - I’m 100% sure that’s what readers of yesterday’s thread took away with them. |
😘😘
40% passive investor.... 🤣🤣 | |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:11 - Sep 2 with 1432 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:03 - Sep 2 by Axeldalai_lama |
Could that team do it again, this season? Without Hutchinson and tuanzebe for absolute certainty and probably a few more who wanted to move on and weren't pushed? Should we have kept them all through the prem season and played them all for 3 seasons in a row?
If not I'm not sure what point you, and others are making. Yes it was an absolutely amazing tight squad better than the sum of its parts and an unrepeatable brilliant season. It has changed multiple times since in many ways, so how does clinging on to that team and squad help now? It's gone, it was gone the second we went up, just because we can't repeat it specifically doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to upgrade and develop. We are dealing with where we are this season, not trying to resurrect a unicorn from a couple of years ago. |
Some people would like to have seen the legends get more of a chance, some wouldn't.
Thats OK. We probably need to move on.
To be fair, the legends were dumped 12 months ago. Im pleased to see them being able to progress their careers and not rot on the bench.
Hopefully works out for all parties. | |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:17 - Sep 2 with 1400 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:37 - Sep 2 by SWLondonBlue93 |
As it sounds like some have decided the squad that picked up 96 points was bang average, I look forward to this new squad shattering all records this season, will be fun to watch. [Post edited 2 Sep 9:38]
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That team was a once in a generation team. Just 5 sets of supporters have experienced that since 1997! FIVE!
We are never going to recreate that no matter what we spend or who we kept. They were a special special team that were so much more than the sum of their parts and completely exceeded all expectations, which lets face it, is a complete anomaly in modern football. Every year it's the one's with the most money achieving things be that Wrexham, Birmingham, Liverpool, Newcastle etc
As fans we are not getting that back, we need to stop tying every conversation back to those two years. | | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:19 - Sep 2 with 1363 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:05 - Sep 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Why do some people feel the need to label their posts as 'controversial' or 'unpopular'?
Thats for others to decide. |
the fear of the downvote.
'now I LOVE IPSWICH TOWN FC WITH ALL MY HEART, but that was an underwhelming performance today, i'm not saying we are awful and I love them but i think we played badly, although i do understand why and I think will will improve. Back the boys COYB' |  | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:25 - Sep 2 with 1336 views | SWLondonBlue93 |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:17 - Sep 2 by Bellevue_Blue |
That team was a once in a generation team. Just 5 sets of supporters have experienced that since 1997! FIVE!
We are never going to recreate that no matter what we spend or who we kept. They were a special special team that were so much more than the sum of their parts and completely exceeded all expectations, which lets face it, is a complete anomaly in modern football. Every year it's the one's with the most money achieving things be that Wrexham, Birmingham, Liverpool, Newcastle etc
As fans we are not getting that back, we need to stop tying every conversation back to those two years. |
No I get all that, my comment was probably unnecessarily sarky, I just don't see the need to talk down the 23/24 team in the process, e.g. saying Chaplin's form "fell off a cliff" (comment from a similar thread) or that the group of players have not shown any loyalty. [Post edited 2 Sep 10:30]
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 11:16 - Sep 2 with 1175 views | Ryorry |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:51 - Sep 2 by BloomBlue |
Football is job, and how an employee shows loyalty is to do their job to the best of their ability.
Those players won us two promotions, they did their job to the best of their ability, there is no better demonstration of loyalty than that.
The fact many of them weren't selected was based on playing the players who cost the most, rather than ability.
The players want more game time, they aren't thick, they know the team will be selected based on cost. We've seen that with Broadhead versus Clarke, Clarke did nothing to warrant selection ahead of Broadhead, other than he cost more money.
Chaplin on Saturday wasn't afraid to battle for the football, while Philogene watched the pigeons flying over.
The double winners demonstrated as much loyalty as any player in Town's history.
It's now up to the new expensive players who have joined us last/this season to start showing loyalty and stick their foot in where it hurts, being brave and start winning games. |
Very well said 👍 |  |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 11:34 - Sep 2 with 1115 views | ArnieM |
Is it maybe , that Mckenna can improve and get more out of lesser players , but struggles to do the same with "better" players ?
Szmodics ripped it up for Blackburn ... wheres that player gone?
Philogene ripped it up for Hull ... wheres that player gone?
Clarke ripped it up for Sunderland , wheres that player gone?
Hutchinson : spent half a season being "adapted to play the #10 role .. Didnt work
Delap - spent the entire season running with the ball from the half way line ( now never comes out of the Chelsea box )
Broadhead : Rarely played
Its going to be interesting to how he utilises the new players isnt it ... I hope he identifies his strongest team asap ... |  |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 11:48 - Sep 2 with 1066 views | sotd78 |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 10:07 - Sep 2 by blueoutlook |
Can’t see I’m that excited to be honest. We look a very poor championship team at the moment and I’m not convinced KM knows what he is doing anymore. |
Faster, faster. It's got to work now - before any of the new players have kicked a ball......hurry hurry.... |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 11:51 - Sep 2 with 1050 views | mellowblue |
Ignoring financial angles. They earned those rewards from the collective successes they achieved.
Depending on the player;
a/ if you've had a completely bum year in your employment struggling in the Prem.
b/ You now see yourself as a prem player and do not want less than that.
c/ you are aging and need a last great payday.
d/ you have lost your team position and just want to play competitive football
e/ you want to leave for family reasons.
If any move on for any of the above reasons, good for them, goodbye and thank you for the memories.
Time for new and existing players to buy into the project 2025/26. I just hope it reaches fruition quickly ! [Post edited 2 Sep 12:36]
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 12:27 - Sep 2 with 943 views | Dubtractor |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 11:34 - Sep 2 by ArnieM |
Is it maybe , that Mckenna can improve and get more out of lesser players , but struggles to do the same with "better" players ?
Szmodics ripped it up for Blackburn ... wheres that player gone?
Philogene ripped it up for Hull ... wheres that player gone?
Clarke ripped it up for Sunderland , wheres that player gone?
Hutchinson : spent half a season being "adapted to play the #10 role .. Didnt work
Delap - spent the entire season running with the ball from the half way line ( now never comes out of the Chelsea box )
Broadhead : Rarely played
Its going to be interesting to how he utilises the new players isnt it ... I hope he identifies his strongest team asap ... |
Yeah, that approach with Delap and Hutchinson was a real disaster, which is why we doubled our money on Hutchinson and had half the Premier league trying to sign Delap...... |  |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 12:30 - Sep 2 with 935 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 11:34 - Sep 2 by ArnieM |
Is it maybe , that Mckenna can improve and get more out of lesser players , but struggles to do the same with "better" players ?
Szmodics ripped it up for Blackburn ... wheres that player gone?
Philogene ripped it up for Hull ... wheres that player gone?
Clarke ripped it up for Sunderland , wheres that player gone?
Hutchinson : spent half a season being "adapted to play the #10 role .. Didnt work
Delap - spent the entire season running with the ball from the half way line ( now never comes out of the Chelsea box )
Broadhead : Rarely played
Its going to be interesting to how he utilises the new players isnt it ... I hope he identifies his strongest team asap ... |
Few managers in the history of the sport has continually improved players like you suggest. Players rarely continually ascend unless they are truly world class. They have peaks and troughs, outstanding seasons backed up by some that are underwhelming.
Is Emery a bad coach because he couldn't get the best out of Philogene? Is Pochettino a bad manager because he couldn't get the best out of Jack Clarke?
So obviously not. It's circumstance, its culture, it's fit, it's confidence, it's tactics and so on. [Post edited 2 Sep 12:46]
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 13:04 - Sep 2 with 799 views | darkhorse28 |
He didn’t give ANY of them their chance - as a measure!
Only Leif was a regular last season from the legacy group, and we spent £150 million replacing them last summer, which hasn’t aged well.
This notion we didn’t bring in 12 players or more last year .., none of the legacy group had a chance except maybe Sam.
That’s just a fact.
Excuses.., grasp at straws all you wish, it’s ego at this point.., you’re trying to revise FACTs.
Greaves, O’Shea, Jens, Phillips, Delap, Philogene, Clarke, Muric, Johnson, Hutchinson, Encisco, Sammie.
Which of them was your favourite legacy player? …, that’s more than an entire team!
It’s pathetic. You seem incapable of processing what’s actually, measurably happened!!!!
None of them got an opportunity, and with our worst points total
In history, it’s hard to say they’d have done any worse. See Sunderland! | | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 13:06 - Sep 2 with 804 views | Broadbent23 |
Successful teams in whatever league have a limited shelf life. The signs were evident in the PL. It is heart wretching to see our heroes depart the squad, whether or not they return, but we need to build a resilient side ; firstly for promotion then to stay in the premiership. The top 12 sides in the PL have players valued between £50m - £100m we have a squad which ranges from £7m - £20m so we are still building. KMc was able to mould the old guard and can do the same with the new recruits. The tactics are being changed to prevent repetition with a new forward line from last season. Jaden and Smoddy were injured last year, we have new additions and GH was second choice. Confidence in winning is still short, but having a settled side will help . We have not been overrun by any side yet, but need a spark to start the revival. Nunez or WalleEgli could be the answer. Therefore loyalty as a supporter is vital. | | | |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 13:30 - Sep 2 with 690 views | Ryorry |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 13:06 - Sep 2 by Broadbent23 |
Successful teams in whatever league have a limited shelf life. The signs were evident in the PL. It is heart wretching to see our heroes depart the squad, whether or not they return, but we need to build a resilient side ; firstly for promotion then to stay in the premiership. The top 12 sides in the PL have players valued between £50m - £100m we have a squad which ranges from £7m - £20m so we are still building. KMc was able to mould the old guard and can do the same with the new recruits. The tactics are being changed to prevent repetition with a new forward line from last season. Jaden and Smoddy were injured last year, we have new additions and GH was second choice. Confidence in winning is still short, but having a settled side will help . We have not been overrun by any side yet, but need a spark to start the revival. Nunez or WalleEgli could be the answer. Therefore loyalty as a supporter is vital. |
I like "Heart-wretching" as a typo, feels about right, pls don't edit it!
Otherwise - sensible post, though the money aspect of top football - £billions spent on players - remains an obscenity given the global inequality amongst humankind. | |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 13:40 - Sep 2 with 629 views | Vic |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 09:51 - Sep 2 by BloomBlue |
Football is job, and how an employee shows loyalty is to do their job to the best of their ability.
Those players won us two promotions, they did their job to the best of their ability, there is no better demonstration of loyalty than that.
The fact many of them weren't selected was based on playing the players who cost the most, rather than ability.
The players want more game time, they aren't thick, they know the team will be selected based on cost. We've seen that with Broadhead versus Clarke, Clarke did nothing to warrant selection ahead of Broadhead, other than he cost more money.
Chaplin on Saturday wasn't afraid to battle for the football, while Philogene watched the pigeons flying over.
The double winners demonstrated as much loyalty as any player in Town's history.
It's now up to the new expensive players who have joined us last/this season to start showing loyalty and stick their foot in where it hurts, being brave and start winning games. |
Do you really believe what you've written? really believe that KM picks the team according to how much they cost?
Of course he is going to give a new player a fair crack of the whip - eg muric. But he replaced him when it was clear things weren't changing. Clarke /Broadhead - an interesting one, but i personally refuse to believe that it;s down to money. For some reason we don't know KM, usually a shrewd judge of character and player, didn't always play Broadie even when he was fit. Something in the dressing room? Or was it just that back in the winter when relegation seemed inevitable Broady made it known he wanted to leave in the summer (as has been intimated?). We don't know - but surely it wasn't simply a team picked on value. |  |
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| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 14:12 - Sep 2 with 527 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Controversial alternative view: Loyalty is a two way street on 13:40 - Sep 2 by Vic |
Do you really believe what you've written? really believe that KM picks the team according to how much they cost?
Of course he is going to give a new player a fair crack of the whip - eg muric. But he replaced him when it was clear things weren't changing. Clarke /Broadhead - an interesting one, but i personally refuse to believe that it;s down to money. For some reason we don't know KM, usually a shrewd judge of character and player, didn't always play Broadie even when he was fit. Something in the dressing room? Or was it just that back in the winter when relegation seemed inevitable Broady made it known he wanted to leave in the summer (as has been intimated?). We don't know - but surely it wasn't simply a team picked on value. |
It's not as simple as that but there is truth in it. The extra layer is that KM has picked these players and so their success is tied to his evaluation.
He choose DOS & Greaves as our CB partnership last year so yes they are much more likely to get a spot in the team. Same with Philogene, same with Clarke etc.
If if they don't quite fit into the system as has shown, they're going to get a really decent crack of the whip to learn the role because KM has conviction that they can be better than Woolfy/ Burgess/ Broady etc. | | | |
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