Bohslegend - so its down to injuries to a couple of players that all our performances this season have been dire? Clutching at straws i think.

Len_Brennan added 13:49 - Apr 27
Excellent post from ‘thebeat' on page 2 and good follow up points from a few others also.
I have asked bohslegend to respond to actual points raised before, but I have either been ignored or gotten irrelevant general drivel, littered with guff about moaners and real football people. That kind of stuff is worthless.
We won't all agree on here, we'll have differing views & sometimes someone will point out something we hadn't seen, that's the beauty of it. But throwing out insults and making stuff up as to what others are saying or arguing is out of order. Just because someone is critical or thinks Mick should do something different doesn't automatically mean that they are calling for him to be sacked, but the bohslegend type posters immediately come out on the attack to misrepresent the nature of the comment in order to shut down any debate — that is completely against the spirit of a forum like this. Sure if someone is being offensive or trolling you can call them out on that, but when long standing posters identify & highlight concerns and take the time to articulate them, they deserve to be considered at the very least.
I don't agree with HarryS_H on this thread, but I see where he is coming from & respect the posts he had made and the consideration he has given it. But on the other side of that coin we have bohslegend, with absolutely nothing to say, but saying it anyway, never addressing any of the points made by those s/he disagrees with, not just today but always the same. Playing the man not the ball.
For your own credibility bohslegend, have a go at responding to the reasonable & considered points made by ‘thebeat', just for once it would be nice to read something of substance from you.

In all of that rant LenBrennan, what exactly are you asking me to answer??? I think my position is fairly clear at this stage. I give great credit to MM for making us contenders despite the fact that he has had no money to spend on players in his whole time here.

You want players in certain positions and think you are right about that? I don't think you are right. I trust the guy most qualified to make those decisions, the manager.

When Bish was out injured someone said "replace him" - without sacking him you can't replace him, unless you have additional funds for even more wages - we don't! To be honest I don't care what way people think we should be playing, I would hate us to be playing the way of Portsmouth, MK Dons and all the other dream teams mentioned here BECAUSE they are not competing to get in the Premier League. Argue about style over substance if you wish, I would prefer (especially given the pittance we are working on) to be in with a shout of promotion rather than scrapping for relegation while playing neat triangles across our 18 yd line.

Now Len, will you allow me to hold those opinions?

In answer to your question Len_Brennan. No bohslegend cannont respond to the reasonable points thebeat made in a sensible manner; as just shown above.

@warktheline

Didzy playing just dropped off the front 2 and Skuse just behind Bish and Bru. Overall shape a little like a diamond.

Without loanees this is our best 11 IMHO. You asked.

Prebsa, I was asked to respond to him - I did.

I'm being accused by you and others of exactly what you are accusing me of - not allowing others a point of view. You're being a hypocrite.

.... just read that back

You are accusing me of not allowing you a point of view, while that's exactly what you're doing to me.

Keanish I don't think that its unreasonable to point out that these key players have been missing for long spells, I would say that's precisely the reason we've fallen short this year.

are all the Mick lovers 100% certain that there is "no budget" (club AND Mick stated in January that there was money to spend but Mick stated there wasn't anyone he could see who could improve what he had in the squad) and that there are "no youngster's" coming through (apart from Dozzell there are quite a number out on loan .... not to mention Sam Clarke who was let go).
From where I stand there are some "choices" being made by Mick here ...... which is fair enough & his opinions/philosophy ....... but please don't state them as a "defence" or why others who don't agree with those choices/philosophy are wrong.
Oh and bohslegend please don't state only "real football people" would agree with your view ..... little bit patronising/arrogant.

bohslegend.
First of all thank you for responding to my post.

My difficulty with your “position” however if evident even in your reply. The fact that you finish your post by playing some form of victim who is having your opinion attacked is consistent with previous posts. You are deliberately misrepresenting my comments, in fact I have never suggested that you cannot have your opinion. The irony is that this is exactly what you do with your “moaners” posts and when you tell others that they are not real fans for daring to express their opinions.
The fact that “someone” may have cried “replace him” at some point during the year when Bishop was out injured — for over a season, is no reason to tar all supporters who raised genuine concerns they have observed, as “moaners” who should shut up & never question the management.
As for your ludicrous assumption that playing a more attractive style of football will automatically result in relegation, I will just suggest you look at some of the teams who have been successful also.

I too have consistently given credit to MM for the job he did, particularly in the first 18 months where he undoubtedly saved us from relegation and turned us into a solid Championship side with aspirations of promotion.
You say you trust the guy most qualified to decide on players in certain position, so (in absence of responding to the beat) do you believe that :
- Gerks was a better choice of goalkeeper than Bart during the long period he was being picked, over which many posters were saying the opposite?
- Chambers has been the best possible option at right back that we have had over the last 3 years when many posters were calling for a genuine full back to be played there? Was Mick right to not prioritise signing a right back during all that time (up to Foley coming in & not being picked at least)?
- The centre half pairing of 2 left footers, with Smith on the right side is the best pairing we could have had over the last 3 seasons?
- Jonny Parr's continued absence from the team, when fit, was fair as the 2 full backs being picked were better than him?
- The continued pairing of two (or three) holding midfielders was the correct strategy and did not negatively impact on our ability to open teams up?
- Playing Freddie Sears on the wing as opposed to through the middle has gotten the best out of one of our true assets?
- Not replacing creative players who are known to be long term injuries, while bringing in Coke & Douglas was the correct approach to take?
- Allowing the January transfer window go by while in a strong postition, but already dipping in form as we had the previous season, therefore leaving us vulnerable to emergency loans was good planning. Bearing in mind that both Mick & club execs had said there was money there for players if needed?
- The quality of football being played is having no affect on attendances and season ticket numbers?

You never address the points that posters make when dismissing them. You may disagree, that is perfectly fine, but at least explain why you think I and others are wrong when you call into question our true support for the club or call us moaners.

Phillo and all the others caught by my bait, I apologise, it was mischievous of me to use that term and I was waiting for a few bites. TBH it was used on me before and I hated it. Fair cop.

Just waded thru posts.
Paris Blue said "I really hope he(MM)stays and gets a chance to clear out the dead wood.
The only players he hasn't brought in are Smith,Chambers,Hyam and Murphy;so Mick will be clearing out the dead wood he brought in!

HarryS said Mick had got two teams promoted,just like his predecessors Keane&Jewell then.

Prebsa I like a good pint too lol;but two of the 8 we meet in Legends sadly wont be with us.No they have not passed away,just not renewing their season tickets because of McCarthy.

Leahcar88.Yes he brought in Jonny Parr;but hardly ever played him at left back.Similarly with Kevin Foley as has been unable to replace Chambers his biggest favorite.Foleys mom performance was in midfield after which the greatest living Yorkshireman never played him in that position again!

Len..

- Gerks over Bart? No, Bart for me. But I understand why MM might not want to keep changing keepers (that particular position requires confidence and the managers support) to change keepers after every mistake would be counter-productive in my opinion.
- Chambers best possible option at right back? I think Chambo has steadily improved over the time. What bugged me was so many calling for Richard Stearman to be brought back - he was also a Centreback that MM changed to the right.
- The centre half pairing of 2 left footers? Any professional football player who can't kick with both feet comfortably is a fraud. I think the players themselves never made that up as an excuse, it was just certain fans who wanted to criticise. Again, just my opinion.
- Jonny Parr's continued absence from the team? I'm not sure about this at all. To my mind there was something going on in the background which nobody other than the player himself and the manager knew about. To be fair, he wasn't as amazing a fullback as some were trying to make out. But he was decent.
- The continued pairing of two (or three) holding midfielders? During spells where both Bishop and Bru were long term injured I don't think he always had the luxury of an alternative. There was no money to buy anyone in (only a limited budget for wages / freebies) and that forced the selection of 2 holding players. Most of the time however, we had two full on wingers while fit and IMO it would be naive in the extreme to have the majority of your midfielders who were only good at going forward.
- Playing Freddie Sears on the wing as opposed to through the middle? I'd prefer Sears through the middle too. But being honest Freddie (like Murph) has suffered from poor finishing when he has gotten in on goal, not sure he would have been much more successful regardless of position. Besides, he's a quick winger too.
- Not replacing creative players who are known to be long term injuries? With No Money, who do you get in to replace them? They would have had to be free, but would they be better than Douglas or Coke? Possibly, but who was to know at the time? I remember a lot of people very happy to see Douglas coming in.
- Allowing the January transfer window go by while in a strong postition, but already dipping in form as we had the previous season, therefore leaving us vulnerable to emergency loans was good planning. Bearing in mind that both Mick & club execs had said there was money there for players if needed? I think the extent of Didzy and Bishops injuries were underestimated by all at that time.We could have done with additional cover, but bringing players in for what was perceived as a few weeks only and then replacing them with Didz and Bish when fit would not have been good for team morale. Managers have to take team morale into account IMO.
- The quality of football being played? Our most creative players out of the picture for the majority of the season. Injuries happening to Fraser and Murph on the run in. I'm not surprised we were less creative on the pitch. I would have preferred that ST holders didn't boo the team though.

Fair enough bohs 😊

Bohslegend- not being a hypocrite. Your reply wasent in any way a proper discussion it was just another dig at a supporter.

Your other much longer post though was good and I liked it. Didn't agree with it all but liked it a lot!

bohslegend - I completely agree with phillo & prebsa.
Without meaning to sound patronising, that's a really fair & well argued post. I may still disagree with a lot of it, but it is the type of post I enjoy reading on here which makes me consider & reconsider my own views.

Reading many of the sensible posts on here from Len,Prebsa,and a few others,it's interesting to read that so many have completely different views and ideas just how the club should be run by the owner and MM.Lets be very honest here,at the end of the day the buck has to stop with Mick.He makes the dicissions,picks the team,decides the tactics,and the subs bench.He also decides which players he brings into the club.Am I right or wrong.! If a person at work kept making errors and so on,is it not up to the manager to either sort the problems out,or sack the person.Well,this has been going on at OUR club for three years,with the last year being terrible to put it mildly.So what is the solution here,should MM be sacked or allowed to continue with these dire tactics etc.Or is it down to the owner who in my opinion should in January given MM a SMALL amount of money to allow him to bring in a few players to strengthen the squad.We have heard from the CEO that money was made available,but nothing happened.We cannot put all the blame onto injuries as MM kept saying he squad was strong enough and did not need ant additions.SO,who at the end of the day is to Blame.The owner or MM.Personnelly I blame MM as a manager,he did a good job to start but I feel he has now run his course,and I think deep down he would like to leave.I would be very interested for some of your views,but not as a slanging match but as a sensible discussion.👍

bohslegend thanks very much for actually giving a reply to my 6 points on page 2 as requested by some others.
But im sorry you are badly wrong on all counts.
Wasnt about mistakes with Gerken, Bart should have been straight back in as he'd made no mistakes before his Dad died, Micks reason for keeping Gerken in was they are as good as each other and Gerks has the shirt to lose. We all knew that wasnt the case at the time and now he has been made to look stupid since Bart came back in.
Chambers hasnt improved at rightback, he still gets ripped to shreds by half decent wingers and teams still target that area consistently.
Parr was a better fullback than him and Knudsen but wasnt one of Micks "boys".
The continued selection of 2 defensive midfielders has not been down to injuries. Douglas continually gets selected ahead of Bru when it is like comparing dish water to wine. And even if it was the right thing to play a 2nd worker in there Hyam and Foley are far better options.But he gets picked over them aswell. Again this is cus Douglas is one of Micks "boys" and has been undroppable in his eyes. This is a player who looks like hes doing a fine impression of the walking football advert on tv for old men. For Mick to turn round and say he's been "different class" is just an insult to the fans intelligence.
And playing Sears on the wing has destroyed the kid. Taken a 20 goals a season striker and shunted him on the wing in a role he clearly doesnt enjoy. When playing as a striker recently he kept ending up out on the wing cus thats what hes become used to. We had fit wingers when he first played him out there, there was literally no reason for it. You play players in their recognised positions and you will get the best out of them, its not rocket science.
With the greatest respect you have your opinion but youve admitted in the past you dont go to the games. If you had to watch what we have to week in week out you would soon change your tune.
Go into a pub in town with fans in at 2 oclock on a saturday and listen to the groan that goes round when they see the team sheet, it speaks volumes, we cant all be wrong.....

thebeat, I'm not badly wrong - you just happen to disagree with me.

There are many here who disagree with me too, and many others including plenty of ST holders and regular away game fans who do agree with me on many points. But I'm entitled to an opinion.

What I don't think is right however is the continued uncalled for jibes and accusations against MM about "favourites" as if no manager is entitled to have platers he prefers to play. SBR had them, GB certainly had them and every other manager you care to mention has players in their squads they prefer to play if fit. Again I go back to my earlier point, neither you or me is the manager, he sees the players day in day out, has personal conversations with them regularly, and has reports compiled on them from training, from games from their fitness tests etc and with the advice of his backroom team makes the only decisions that matter. I stand over my view once again (even though I've been slated for it because it doesn't fit the MM out at all costs argument) given the injuries and the lack of funds compared to those teams with parachute payments, MM still has us in a position at the end of the season where we are within earshot of the playoffs. I think there are too many who choose to say that if he picked different players, or used a different approach etc we might actually get up, well Joe Royle and Jim Magilton didn't get us up either and they had far more resources even during that spell after relegation, than MM had. So you have to give him some credit for establishing us in the top half if nothing else.

There appears to be harmony breaking out on the TWTD pages with people with opposing views respecting each others viewpoints ...... this really wont do ! 😊

I think the crux of the matter on here is the playing style, over and above anything else. I agree with bohs , when he says "any professional footballer who can't kick comfortably with both feet is a fraud". However, i would also add, any professional footballer who can't pass accurately over a range of distances with at the very least a 75% completion rate is one also. I would be interested to know how many agree with that opinion or disagree, and if the latter, what is your take on it.

@bohslegend, I asked you the team McCarthy would pick, not you! If you honestly believe this manager would send out this starting 11, all I can say is you've lost the plot big time!

Th beat - 100% agree with you, mate

Move down most probbably blueboy!!!!!!!....

Blueboy wrong as usual!!!!!!.....

@thebeat, so you asked me to come back on your points. I'd like to hear your opinion on my last paragraph above re "favourites".