ITFCsince1973. An apologist.

Actually bending over backwards to argue in favour of racism.

What a look that is.

Finally 2 people with a brain cell.. lightening and dissboy! Thought I going mad!! And if people were to look up FACTS.. you will actually find more white people came to their deaths at the hands of police than black people in America.. STOP breaking the law and the police wouldn't even touch you in the first place!

Wooly, firstly I'd like to thank you for your service. It's greatly appreciated by me and I'm sure everybody else on this forum. Soldiers are treated as heroes, and respected by pretty much everyone (as they should). Perhaps saying BLM is more important is the wrong wording, maybe to say that it is what we need to concentrate on is better. Everybody respects the poppy, and Remembrance Day, however as we have seen, not even everyone in this forum supports BLM. The fact that people can even argue against BLM is ridiculous, as essentially what these people are saying is ‘black lives don't matter.'

Also on what you say about Churchill, multiple other groups of people have defaced the statue before, something which seemed to be reported less than in these protests. Another point is that although Churchill certainly was inspirational for the war effort, he was also a racist, white supremacist. I'm well aware that this is probably going to get me some hate as he is thought of as a national hero, however he wasn't all good. He refused to give food to India during the Bengal Famine causing 2-3 million people die. He felt black people were beneath him, and called white people a ‘stronger' and ‘higher grade' race. I understand this was during a very different time, but it is still not acceptable. Just to say, this sort of thing needs to be taught in schools because I did not know about some of his racist actions until very recently. I suppose it comes down to personal opinion whether the statue stays or not though, so it's fair enough if you disagree.

Well Bluearmy you are very vocal against ME and rightly so if that's how you feel! But you do know if we had an owner from an ethnic background your remarks could well be turned around by some!

If that's how I feel?! We are a joke, a laughing stock, it's how every right thinking town fan should feel. I couldn't care less where our new owner was from, as long as he put pride and passion (and adequate investment) back into the club and took us from the route of underachievement and failure that Evans has had us on from 13 years, that'd be more than enough for me!

ITFC Rich,

Thank you for your honesty and reply, I didn't give my summary to try and stand out for my service, those of us who have and continue to do so, do it for their own reasons, but your acknowledgment of your original wording is appreciated none the less. On Churchill, yes he did all those things and much worse in a much different time and whilst I certainly don't condoned it, I think it has to be put alongside what he did do to destroy a fascist party that would have been guilty of a scale of mass murder probably bigger than at any other time in history. Without the Churchill leadership, I truly believe that we would not have the freedom we all enjoy today to even debate such matters. To attempt to disrespect his involvement in the eyes of many of this country's great nation, will cause more harm than good for the BLM movement in the long run.

I still stand by my statement, we can not change history, we can only live our lives now and be decent humans to each other and learn from past failings. Yes Black lives matter, just the same as all lives matter I've seen enough hatred in the Balkans over race and region to last me more than one lifetime. Let's hope we can all find a way to respect each other.

Just on McGoldrick's appearances, he actually played more frequently for us in his last 2 seasons than he had done in the preceding 3 seasons, all of which featured him missing several months of the campaigns.

Fully behind him on BLM.

Well said Wooly
I am totally and utterly fed up with people suddenly becoming all self righteous and " woke" . Pretty much everyone I know is and has always been . Try listening to James Cleverly on question time this week . A black politician , on the massive steps we have made in racism . That analogy about the burning house is ridiculous.
Absolutely have no time for racism of any sort or bullying , both pet hates of mine but it works both ways. I've met quite a lot of racist black people in my role . I can't abide those far right idiots either who turned up in London purely to cause trouble . We aren't the US , we have BAME people in high positions in government, medicine ,teaching etc etc . Stop feeding the young generation telling them that things are worse than they are . Oh and lastly look at BLM ideals and policies . Defunding your Police force . Great idea .

Dozzells Bobblehat, things are bad in the UK too. All you have to do is look at any post about BLM and it receives many racist and ignorant comments from white people. If you're completely against racism, you would know that we haven't done enough here in the UK. There are not enough BAME people in a lot of professions. In football for example, around a third of players in the premier league are black, yet there are only 6 BAME managers in the top four divisions. Just because some have power doesn't mean that our work is done. There is still a hell of a lot of racism in this country. The younger generation on the whole are the majority trying to stop racism, there's nothing wrong with that.

The analogy about the burning house is perfect for this situation. As a white person I do not receive any abuse about my appearance, apart from jokes from my mates of course. Black people receive abuse in the streets, subtle or completely openly racist. That is inequality. That needs to stop as they're being treated worse than us, hence they are the house on fire. I would not ask for the jokes about my appearance to stop while BAME people get have racist abuse shouted at them. My house matters, but the house on fire needs to be put out.

As for defunding the police, it does not mean there'll be a purge-like situation where people do whatever they like with no police. It means that the huge police budget is reduced to put money into other areas to help the community, such as education and healthcare. In America, their response is more crime = more police. In many schools, they have a police officer and no counsellor. If you put money into community areas, help reduce poverty, crime is going to go down. I understand defunding the police is more of an American ideal as we do not have such a huge police budget over here, but the premise stays the same.

I completely agree with raising awareness toward racism and feel it has no part in either football or society as a whole .... some aspects of the protests baffle tho

For example at the moment we are in lockdown due to coronavirus which, according to reports ethnic minorities are more suseptable to - so why are loads of people taking to the street en mass, putting their own health at risk in this dreadful time with the point of the protest being black lives matter - its like me walking up a train track to raise awareness of safety on the railways !

My second observation is that destroying statues of historical figures is ridiculous, it's our history - and whatever happens on the point of racism and anything else is because we learn from the good and bad of previous generations, their achievements and their mistakes. Winston Churchill has statues erected because he led the country to victory in the war against the nazis who were the most racist people ever, no other reason than that.

the world and society is a different place to how it was back then, things that were accepted then are not accepted now and rightly so, but we can't pretend they didn't happen and we learned because of it.

I also want to add that I met Didzy at the end of season 12/13 just after he'd joined and as someone who suffers from anxiety and nerves he was the only player who made the effort to talk to me and put me at ease so i can't speak highly enough of the man.

ITFCRich - wrong
Actually read BLM policies . They plan to ABOLISH the Police . As for younger generation , unfortunately a huge number have become entitled and self righteous .
I also don't see many racist comments against BLM . This is the trouble . You think that if anyone slightly disagrees with you they are racist . Makes my blood boil . Get off your high horse .

The analogy is utter b*******s. You don't even own that bloody house you're white . How do you know it's on fire ? You perceive it's on fire because you believe what you read on social media . When did you last witness racist abuse in the streets ???
A black Police officer was shot and killed by black looters in the riots , why weren't there protests against that ? Because it didn't get the news coverage that a truly awful incident did that happened to involve a white police officer and a black man . Hysteria and massive bandwagon jumping ensues .

Lighningboy - if George Floyd had been the only death or only example of institutional racism then yourclaim that "all of this has gone into complete overdrive over the (wrongful) death of a convicted armed robber" would be valid. The point is that this was the (cliche alert) "last straw". I am going to make the big assumption that you are white. You don't get to say when it is "enough" in terms of reaching equality

Firstly, sorry pencil Pete, didn't mean to downvote you, somehow did it on both posts. As to what you've actually said, many people are protesting because they believe racism is a bigger problem than COVID, and I agree with them. It's up to you if you want to protest and I'm not going to argue about that.

As for the statues, I believe they should be kept in museums so we have a reminder of history but not out in the streets to remind black people of their ancestors pain. Slave traders do not deserve statues and they make many people feel uncomfortable. Churchill is another matter and people have differing opinions which is fine.

As for Dozzells Bobblehat. Wow. Just wow.

Please read any article about defunding the police. It might help you understand. Just look up ‘what does it mean to defund the police' and you'll be greeted with hundreds of results saying that it's about redirecting funds into the community.

Apparently I'm ‘self righteous' for speaking out against racism, and trying to help people understand. Everybody right now needs to be anti racist, not just non racist. Going against Black Lives Matter is racist. Saying All Lives Matter is incredibly ignorant. If you go on any post on social media regarding race, you'll see the racist comments. Earlier today I saw a post by the conservatives saying happy Father's Day, featuring a black man and his child. Some of the comments included saying it was ‘disgusting' and it should be taken down because it did not show white people. Now am I ‘self righteous' for calling that racist?

Now onto your next point, I am fully aware that I am not black. I do however listen to people of ethnic minorities and their experiences. I have a friend from Hong Kong who has had multiple people shout ‘coronavirus' at her. I had a Muslim friend whose parents did not let her wear a hijab in case she got abuse, just like her mother. I have not seen those cases myself, but they happened. Just as they happen every single day to people of minorities. It is the height of white privilege to think that there's not a problem with racism.

And on to your final point, I'm assuming you're talking about David Dorn? Obviously his murder was completely awful, nobody is saying it isn't. However you bringing it up is a way of trying to deflect attention from the problem at hand. He was not killed purely because of his race. It was at the hands of an extremely small minority of people that cause violence and looting at these protests (which is reported more than the peaceful protests which form the majority). Also what about the far right protesters causing much more violence, attacking police, doing Nazi salutes and pissing on memorials? Or are you fine with that?

It is not jumping on the bandwagon to speak out about racism that has been going on for 400 years. You do not have to be young to stand up. You do not have to be black to understand that racism exists. Educate yourself.

ITFCRICH... I am truly embarrassed to call you a fellow Ipswich fan! Racism worse than COVID??? We have lost 40 odd thousand lives to this horrible virus!!! What a pathetic human being you really are!! And I was delighted to see ‘white lives matter' banner flown over the ethiad last night.... I was beginning to think my white life didn't matter!!!

ITFCRICH -
Yes I know what defunding means and it's all compete rubbish come up with by snowflakes with no life experience BUT on the BLM page it quite clearly says ABOLISH the Police. Go onto BLM website . I can't cut and paste on here so I can't show you .
Admittedly it is referring to the USA but people here are still donating to them and quoting them.as the way forward.
They are not . No doubt that makes me racist . Again, I am not .
Teresa May has already defunded the Police , we need to be spending more money not less.
No I am not ok with far right idiots who had no intention of protecting anything , I have already stated as much . Anyone using violence or destroying property I have no time for .
You've sort of proved my point with your story about your friend . Racism isn't just Black and White . It's all wrong and all lives do matter . The slogan says no lives matter until black lives matter . This is wrong , they all matter and always have . 95% of people in this country think that . It's not socially acceptable now to be racist . One awful incident in another country has caused hysteria here . If you see racism should it be dealt with ? Yes of course , absolutely. The vast majority of people supporting BLM have great intentions but it is being done in totally the wrong way and is turning it into black v white and bringing out the right wing idiots and turning many sympathetic people against it who are fed up with the preaching of the ' woke' mainly younger generation and the biased reporting at present .

ITFCRICH - The very fact that we are discussing it and everyone is airing their views (whether we agree or not) is a positive thing. Any racism be it, white against black, black against white etc is wrong full stop. However surely they could protest after COVID when it is safer for everyone, i'm sure the issue of racism sadly isn't going to disappear in the next month or so !!

A couple more observations - For me certain things are no win situations if you're doing an impression of someone you have to look like them .... if they didn't do the impressions or did them without changing the skin colour that would be viewed as racist too. The people calling for episodes of little britain, fawlty towers ETC to be taken off air because of percieved racism are not calling for the film white chicks to be scrapped when it's the same principal but the other way around. Absolutely raise awareness and stop racism but also stop looking for things from 40 / 50 years ago that arn't there, i have autism ... am i offended by rain man ? no because it's fiction.

The problem is for every person who has a grievance and genuinely feels strongly there is an idiot who just wants to cause trouble and give that cause a bad name - that didn't just happen this time it happened with students protesting about tuition fees, in the Gay Pride parades ... everything.

You address all these issues and raise awareness but you will never stop people taking things too far and being idiots.

Tractorboy, good thing I'm ashamed for you to be a fellow Ipswich fan too then. I'm not saying COVID doesn't matter, but it is not a long standing issue, and it is being solved. How can protesting against racism be wrong and completely irresponsible while it's fine for thousands of people to flock to beaches and parks? Again, the 40000 deaths are awful, and I'm not trying to disrespect them, but how many millions of people have died because of racism? COVID also disproportionately affects ethnic minorities more, partly due to the systemic racism in place and minorities much more likely to have low paid jobs in contact with lots of people and living in poverty.

Of course your white life matters, no one is disputing that. However you do not have to deal with racism on a daily basis. Right now, black lives do not seem to matter, hence why there are protests. It is ignorant to say ‘white lives matter' and pretty disrespectful.

Dozzells Bobblehat, this is copied straight from blacklivesmatter.com:

We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive.

Yep, clearly says abolish...

Black lives matter means black lives matter too. All lives can't matter until black lives matter because, right now, black lives don't matter to many people. Same goes for everyone else, however, black lives seem to matter less than other minorities. This ‘hysteria' is caused by the racism that has been present for so long. I am quite frankly ashamed of myself that it has taken me this long to start standing up against it instead of quietly watching as it goes on. Finally, we might be seeing some actual change due to the amount of people doing the same. It is becoming less socially acceptable to be racist because people are actually starting to call it out, which is great.

If these sympathetic people are sick of the younger generation protesting maybe they aren't that sympathetic after all. This is not a trend. This momentum needs to continue, and if that means some white people get annoyed, that's their problem.

Pencilpete, I agree it's great that we're talking about this, and thank you for being so polite about it too. I think the reason people didn't wait until after COVID to protest is because the movement would have lost so much momentum. It had to start with that anger. Many people would have forgotten about the incident if they waited a few months after it happened, just as they did after all the other innocent black killings. Obviously it's not ideal to be protesting with what's going on atm, but it's creating the changes that are needed.

I understand what you're saying. The main problem is to do with blackface which has been used for many years to mock and dehumanise black people. The same cannot be said for the ‘whiteface' used in white chicks. As for shows being scrapped for racist jokes, I think it's another place where opinions completely differ. Some people might claim that they're just jokes so shouldn't be offensive, but if black people are offended, are they ok? Some of theses shows are completely out of date and perhaps should be cut down instead of cancelled. I personally haven't seen much of the two shows you mentioned so I'm not sure how many racist jokes are included. At the end of the day it's not my place to decide if jokes are offensive or not. Like you said, you might not be offended by rain man but somebody else could be.

Yes there are always going to be people that just want to cause trouble. Thankfully I believe most protests are becoming entirely peaceful. You do have to understand the reason why people were so angry though.

ITFCRICH - I would never be rude just because someone has a slightly different take on things and you're absolutely correct that offence is never given it's taken and what one person might be OK with, another may not be and of course i can understand why people are angry. My main point is that we should be concentrating on the issues we have in society NOW like the American police who thought it was ok to kneel on a guys neck until he died or the idiots who think it's OK to go a football match and aim abuse and monkey chant at Black players - thats what we need to stamp out. I don't think looking back in history at people like Churchill or 70s sitcoms and saying they were wrong because the world was a different place then with different attitudes but as i said in a previous post the point we have got to now is because of what happened in the past not just on racism but on issues like medicine, advances in technology ETC - doctors used to amputate limbs and people died from infections, they used to drain blood as a form of treatment without realising they were making things worse, it doesn't mean that they were butchers or murderers it just meant that they didn't know what they were doing was wrong at the time. Black people were seen as slaves at the same times that Kings believed that their wives could decide if they had a boy or a girl and charged them with treason if they didn't give birth to what they wanted !!! these people weren't racist or sexist they were uneducated and we shouldn't pass judgement on someone from 100-200 years ago based on the information we have at our disposal today.

Pencil you are saying everything I need to say and thank you for it! However I think we are fighting a losing battle with ITFCRICH! How many times do I need to say i am not racist and I judge people on their character whether it be black or white! I am totally against these mindless thugs at football etc and who abuse black people but these protests are going too far and to say it's offensive that someone flies a banner over a stadium with thee opposite ‘white lives matter' is being nothing but stubborn! These protests should have been controlled in a more academic matter and people would have respected their views more! Smashing places up.. looting and destroying English culture was well below the belt!

Tractorboy, it's all well and good you saying that you aren't racist, but you need to be actively anti racist. Also I never called you racist in the first place...

Saying ‘white lives matter' is not offensive on its own, however in the context it is extremely ignorant. It is used as a direct counter to BLM and suggests that you are dismissing the racist experiences of black people, and the history of racism. Once again, ‘black lives matter' is not saying they matter more, nor that white lives matter less, just that they matter. White people were not used as slaves. White people do not live in fear of the police. White people do not face racist abuse wherever they go. I suggest reading into why saying ‘all lives matter' or ‘white lives matter' is wrong.

As for the protests, it is an extremely small minority of people looting in the US, and even smaller in the U.K. Pretty much all protests are completely peaceful. As someone who has attended a BLM protest, I can assure you there was no violence, looting or ‘smashing places up.' If this English culture you talk about being destroyed includes the statues of slave traders, I am ashamed to be English, not that I was particularly proud in the first place. The amount of racism in this country is disgraceful. Ever thought that people's lives are more important than this ‘culture?'

Can I just point out that white people have been used as slaves throughout the years.
The Romans and the Vikings being prime examples.
North African Muslim pirates took many white Christian slaves to work as labourers, galley slaves and white concubines between the 1500's and 1780.
Parts of Cornwall had towns and villages on the south coast depopulated.
This also applied to Irishman crossing from the south to the south west of England.
Even today white women from poorer eastern European countries are sold into prostitution with no hope of escape.
Before the American civil war, poor European settlers were also enslaved at the hands of wealthy plantation owners.
To say that white people were not used as slaves is factually incorrect.

The B.L.M movement has made many aware of the discrimination black people face in not only the U.S but in Europe, Asia and other parts of the world.

Myself included.

Now, how about a Mick McCarthy story to get us riled?

That's a sure winner in regards of comments Phil and Gav 😉

Northstandveteran, thanks for pointing that out, I perhaps spoke too generally. I didn't actually know about some of that so thanks for letting me know.

Also, #mccarthyin