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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? 07:55 - May 24 with 17558 viewsHerbivore

All of the terrorist attacks perpetrated in the UK this century have been carried out by people born and raised here. We really need to start asking some hard questions about why it is that people born and raised in the UK are drawn towards killing their fellow citizens in large numbers. It's too easy to just blame religion, there are hundreds of thousands (possibly over a million?) of UK citizens of the Muslim faith who would never consider taking another life. We can't look for simplistic answers anymore, this is a complex problem and unless we tackle the underlying causes of young Brits being susceptible to radical ideas we will never make any progress.

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:12 - May 24 with 2170 viewsfactual_blue

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:22 - May 24 by CaptainObvious

i only think their birthplace is relevant for liberals to point score. some of them seem desperate for a white christian to carry out an atrocity.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

Where the latest chap was born is once again a timely reminder that there is no evidence of hordes of jihadists flooding in from Syria pretending to be refugees.

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:14 - May 24 with 2165 viewsEireannach_gorm

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:16 - May 24 by homer_123

One could also ask the questions, how do we stop Brits killing non-Brits?

Coalition forces kill 30 in a school in Raqqa.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/s-coalition-syria-air-strike

Read down that thread and a further 46 were killed the week before.

One can argue how accurate these are but, there is no doubt that in these situations innocent lives are lost.

On a personal level, it feels to me that we get ourselves involved in situations such as this to try and stop mistreatment of others (laudable) but also to preserve our way of life. However, we end up making the situation worse, more often than not. We may preserve our way of life and thinking but by killing others?


Or ask the question, how do we stop Muslims killing Muslims?

https://www.cfr.org/peace-conflict-and-human-rights/sunni-shia-divide/p33176#!/

As the ' World Police' got involved in this conflict so the world now seems to be a legitimate target.
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:16 - May 24 with 2163 viewstaximan

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:08 - May 24 by Darth_Koont

Not sure we do all know who "they" are.

Earlier you seemed to think it was people who attend mosques.


it wasn't me that posted that the cnt responsible for this latest attack was radicalised in a local mosque
it was in response to this that i suggested knocking those factories of hate down
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:23 - May 24 with 2151 viewsDarth_Koont

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:16 - May 24 by taximan

it wasn't me that posted that the cnt responsible for this latest attack was radicalised in a local mosque
it was in response to this that i suggested knocking those factories of hate down


If it's not a mosque, it's a church or somewhere else.

Shall we shut down the Internet because of Breivik? He also targeted kids but even picked them off one by one in cold blood.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:26 - May 24 with 2148 viewsCaptainObvious

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:12 - May 24 by factual_blue

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

Where the latest chap was born is once again a timely reminder that there is no evidence of hordes of jihadists flooding in from Syria pretending to be refugees.


I don't think i could have found better examples than those links to prove my point.

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:27 - May 24 with 2139 viewstaximan

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:23 - May 24 by Darth_Koont

If it's not a mosque, it's a church or somewhere else.

Shall we shut down the Internet because of Breivik? He also targeted kids but even picked them off one by one in cold blood.


something has to be done, other than your suggestion of "engaging" with them !!

i have no idea what the solution is

do you have a wife and children ?
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:33 - May 24 with 2128 viewsDarth_Koont

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:27 - May 24 by taximan

something has to be done, other than your suggestion of "engaging" with them !!

i have no idea what the solution is

do you have a wife and children ?


Yes. And I want the world to be a safer place for them of course.

That's why I say engage with whoever you can. Fighting extremists just entrenches the views - added to which they often don't reveal themselves to be terrorists until they carry out an act so there's nobody to fight.

We could also spend much of our time and resources on addressing the underlying causes and thinking what we ourselves could do. If you really want to stop extremism in our own country, why not stand up and say you support British Muslims?

Pronouns: He/Him

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 14:49 - May 24 with 2079 viewseireblue

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:27 - May 24 by taximan

something has to be done, other than your suggestion of "engaging" with them !!

i have no idea what the solution is

do you have a wife and children ?


This guy had a wife.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-34862437/paris-attacks-i-will-not-give
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 14:51 - May 24 with 2070 viewscaught-in-limbo

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:11 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue

Hang in a minute. You have stated in here several times that you support Russia's military action against Jihadi fighters on Syria.


The difference of course being that after 4 years of conflict against jihadists, the Syrian government invited Russia to assist them.

Originally, NATO and western powers used to pretend that their main reason for being in Syria was to remove ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, but now they don't even bother pretending.

It is certainly clear from your contributions to Syria threads that the toppling of the Syrian government is your focus for our intervention, whether that is based on humanitarianism or otherwise.

Even in this thread you managed to bring up the subject of Assad's removal, when in fact the Syrian Army is the main opposition to ISIS/ISIL/Daesh on the ground.

I think there are very few people outside right wing politics in Britain who seriously believe our main motive for military intervention in Syria is primarily to remove ISIS.

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 15:18 - May 24 with 2047 viewsnoggin

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:16 - May 24 by taximan

it wasn't me that posted that the cnt responsible for this latest attack was radicalised in a local mosque
it was in response to this that i suggested knocking those factories of hate down


Do you seriously think knocking down mosques would hinder radicalisation?

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:10 - May 24 with 1984 viewsgordon

An interesting and different perspective on this is: what is it about young men which makes them so much more likely than women to kill or attempt to kill large numbers of civilians? Whether it be gunmen in American High Schools or Jihadists in Western Europe, why is it always males, and why doesn't the media draw attention to this and why isn't it discussed? (I don't ask that in a conspiracy theory sort of way)
Is there anything that societies could do to reduce the likelihood of teenage and young adult males being drawn towards indiscriminate killing?
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:12 - May 24 with 1978 viewsRadlett_blue

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:10 - May 24 by gordon

An interesting and different perspective on this is: what is it about young men which makes them so much more likely than women to kill or attempt to kill large numbers of civilians? Whether it be gunmen in American High Schools or Jihadists in Western Europe, why is it always males, and why doesn't the media draw attention to this and why isn't it discussed? (I don't ask that in a conspiracy theory sort of way)
Is there anything that societies could do to reduce the likelihood of teenage and young adult males being drawn towards indiscriminate killing?


because young men tend to go through more angst. Also reflected in highest number of suicides being young men. Most creative artists have their most prolific period when young men.

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:24 - May 24 with 1966 viewsEireannach_gorm

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:10 - May 24 by gordon

An interesting and different perspective on this is: what is it about young men which makes them so much more likely than women to kill or attempt to kill large numbers of civilians? Whether it be gunmen in American High Schools or Jihadists in Western Europe, why is it always males, and why doesn't the media draw attention to this and why isn't it discussed? (I don't ask that in a conspiracy theory sort of way)
Is there anything that societies could do to reduce the likelihood of teenage and young adult males being drawn towards indiscriminate killing?


Interesting old but relevant article on women bombers.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/12/30/why_are_so_many_of_russia_s_sui
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:43 - May 24 with 1950 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:18 - May 24 by Darth_Koont

Engaging with people. Showing tolerance and empathy. Not trying to impose a narrow view of culture on others.

We've got a lot of work to do ourselves to make the UK a better country before we start demanding stuff from minorities.


While taximan is far too simplistic you seem to be saying that it's all our own fault. Victim blaming after this sort of incident is despicable... you really should be ashamed
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:44 - May 24 with 1945 viewsJ2BLUE

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 11:56 - May 24 by taximan

seeing the pictures of some of the victims has made me incredibly angry

i'm not getting all of this tolerance stuff

they hate us and they want to kill us


Absolutely no one has suggested tolerance of terrorists.

Truly impaired.
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:51 - May 24 with 1934 viewsThe_Romford_Blue

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:44 - May 24 by J2BLUE

Absolutely no one has suggested tolerance of terrorists.


Of course not

It's sad that he can't see the difference

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:00 - May 24 with 1928 viewsDanTheMan

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:43 - May 24 by FrowsyArmLarry

While taximan is far too simplistic you seem to be saying that it's all our own fault. Victim blaming after this sort of incident is despicable... you really should be ashamed


I don't think he's blamed the children...

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:05 - May 24 with 1925 viewsJ2BLUE

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:43 - May 24 by FrowsyArmLarry

While taximan is far too simplistic you seem to be saying that it's all our own fault. Victim blaming after this sort of incident is despicable... you really should be ashamed


You really do just say the first thing you think of with zero consideration don't you?

Truly impaired.
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:08 - May 24 with 1918 viewsThe_Romford_Blue

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:43 - May 24 by FrowsyArmLarry

While taximan is far too simplistic you seem to be saying that it's all our own fault. Victim blaming after this sort of incident is despicable... you really should be ashamed


?

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:15 - May 24 with 1911 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:00 - May 24 by DanTheMan

I don't think he's blamed the children...


Indirectly.
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:20 - May 24 with 1903 viewsgordon

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:24 - May 24 by Eireannach_gorm

Interesting old but relevant article on women bombers.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/12/30/why_are_so_many_of_russia_s_sui


That's interesting. Here's a good quote from an article in Time Magazine about gender and mass killings:

"Our refusal to talk about violence as a public-health problem with known (or knowable) risk factors keeps us from helping the young men who are at most risk and, of course, their potential victims. When we view terrible events as random, we lose the ability to identify and treat potential problems, for example by finding better ways to intervene with young men during their vulnerable years. There is so much more we need to learn about how to prevent violence, but we could start with the sex difference that is staring us in the face."

Culture, mental illness and mass killings is also interesting: a study found that 70 percent of Americans with psychoses who heard voices reported that the voices urged them toward violence. In India, that number was 20 percent, and in Ghana, only 10 percent. So the prevalence of male violence in culture likely plays a part in mass killings too.

There may well be a great deal in common between the typical lone shooter in a US high school and your typical jihadi bomber, and obvious differences too. But a deeper consideration of the correlations and risk factors etc may be very useful in understanding what's happening in W Europe.
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:20 - May 24 with 1902 viewstaximan

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 19:51 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue

Of course not

It's sad that he can't see the difference


don't be "sad" on my behalf

give me a shout when you have children and grandchildren of your own

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:23 - May 24 with 1887 viewstaximan

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:15 - May 24 by FrowsyArmLarry

Indirectly.


me ?

are you saying i have blamed the victims ?

i sincerely hope that you are not
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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:28 - May 24 with 1875 viewsMullet

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 13:16 - May 24 by taximan

it wasn't me that posted that the cnt responsible for this latest attack was radicalised in a local mosque
it was in response to this that i suggested knocking those factories of hate down


Didsbury mosque is unlikely to be the site of his radicalisation given it's in the heart of an incredibly middle/upper middle class suburb and he spent the last few years in Libya and possibly Syria.

There is a report his views as a teenager were reported to the Police and questions are being asked of the laudable, but ultimately laughable prevent initiative.

He'd have been a teenager at the time. It's looking like his siblings took a line of being more extreme, more "devout" than their parents. He lived in Whalley Range which can be a very Muslim-centric existence if you want it to be I would assume.

The people of Manchester haven't responded in the way you have. There was a shameful arson attack in Oldham which is clearly using the tragedy as a terrible excuse in a more parochial and divided community just outside the city.

But on the whole I'm glad to hear far more sensible suggestions and ones less aligned with the mentality that caused this individual to fall into the hands of the scum that made him into a mass murderer.

We don't need more of them, with more causes, colours and grievances on both sides.

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How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:28 - May 24 with 1875 viewsFrowsyArmLarry

How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 20:23 - May 24 by taximan

me ?

are you saying i have blamed the victims ?

i sincerely hope that you are not


No, I was talking about dearths comments that "we" have a lot of work to do to accept Islamic principles before we look to minorities to change.

You really are a bit dim if you didn't get that
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