| Paul Cook 17:51 - Dec 10 with 8489 views | pennblue |
stands head and shoulders above any of the candidates being bandied about
Just saying |  |
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| Paul Cook on 09:19 - Dec 11 with 978 views | Yallop |
| Paul Cook on 09:03 - Dec 11 by Mullet |
Faith is bullsh1t though. You don’t win anything on faith. That’s why we ended up relegated and wallowing in this sh1thole league. |
How about the faith we showed in John Lyall?
John Duncan finished 9th and got the sack. Next season Lyall finished 14th. We showed faith and look how that worked out |  | | |
| Paul Cook on 09:24 - Dec 11 with 959 views | JDB23 |
| Paul Cook on 06:40 - Dec 11 by Yallop |
Really? So if we finish this season in the bottom third you'll want this manager out as well.
What a shower of impatient entitled fans we've turned into. |
Yes, patience is not a god given right. I’d suggest if a manager came in and made the team we have now relegation candidates then they probably aren’t very good and definitely should not be allowed to waste more of the ownership groups money.
It really should not be hard to even get a slight improvement out of this team in the 3rd division. | | | |
| Paul Cook on 09:26 - Dec 11 with 954 views | Whos_blue |
I think the OP makes an interesting point. Paul Cook of February 2021 probably would be the stand out name. I don’t think many of us predicted it wouldn't work out the way it has, though I'm sure someone will be along to claim they called it on day one!
The problem was that many of the people who wanted to Cook to go (with some justification) were never able to come up with a credible replacement.
If Neil Harris is the pinnacle of what we aspire to, I'm not sure that's the most inspiring of appointments. None of us actually know who's coming though.
Most of us will get behind whoever comes in whether they're our preferred choice or not, but I'm fearful those fans who see promotion this season and nothing else will do, may not get their wish and will start to turn on the new incumbent early.
I really do think we're in trouble, as the fans, well those that post here, are so entrenched in their positions, I worry this place could continue to remain divided for some time.
Could any manager unite us? Not from the current list I'm afraid. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Paul Cook on 09:39 - Dec 11 with 913 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Paul Cook on 01:03 - Dec 11 by townblue |
How long though? Was quite clearly not working. Can't spaff the money we have and give it a year. |
I think any manager deserves a full season with their players. We've seen with Lambo you can't judge after half a season we all thought we were going up. Danny Cowley got hammered by us and Pompey looked awful now he's manager of the month.
Or how about the forums sweetheart Mark Warburton as prime example
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11688/12490167/
Unless we look like relegation fodder managers deserve time becuease usually building one takes time and for every Wigan that people can point to there are more examples of managers who are affored time bringing success |  |
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| Paul Cook on 10:22 - Dec 11 with 867 views | positivity |
| Paul Cook on 09:11 - Dec 11 by BiGDonnie |
You're only as good as your last job. |
cook's last job before us was much better than any of the people who might replace him! | |
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| Paul Cook on 10:34 - Dec 11 with 864 views | lowhouseblue |
isn't this the lesson from 5 out of 6 of our last managerial appointments? surely we've learnt that sacking and replacing is just rolling a die. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Paul Cook on 10:37 - Dec 11 with 850 views | Mullet |
| Paul Cook on 09:19 - Dec 11 by Yallop |
How about the faith we showed in John Lyall?
John Duncan finished 9th and got the sack. Next season Lyall finished 14th. We showed faith and look how that worked out |
It wasn’t really faith at all though was it? That promotion was a shock and the club were not bankrolled by new owners in this division.
The aims and context were totally different. It’s like criticising Cook because SBR never bought that many players in a decade etc. |  |
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| Paul Cook on 11:10 - Dec 11 with 797 views | pointofblue |
| Paul Cook on 10:22 - Dec 11 by positivity |
cook's last job before us was much better than any of the people who might replace him! |
Keane and Hurst could say the same thing - still made a mess of it here. Cook has the worst winning percentage of all of our managers throughout history, excluding Hurst and Milburn. | |
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| Paul Cook on 11:10 - Dec 11 with 798 views | Ely_Blue |
| Paul Cook on 07:19 - Dec 11 by pennblue |
You can't defend the statistics, they don't make good reading.
You can't defend some of the last few games either. Why did the team perform like they did in the 1st half against Barrow. What was that all about? What was going through their minds?
You can't defend it.
But lets take Klopp's record at Liverpool:
https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/10/Liverpool/season-history
He joined October 2015, and after 9 months in charge, they finished 8th.
So based on the 'stats' arguments, they should have sacked him right?
The truth of the matter is, we should have given him more time, and we have now shot ourselves well and truly in the foot. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 7:21]
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Did Klopp openly throw the team he inherited under the bus to a man and boy, getting no results from them, not even a new manager bounce from Cook.
So you want to compare Klopp who finished 8th in the Premier League with Cook……… now you really have lost the plot, Klopp is up against Chelsea, Man City, United, Arsenal, Spurs etc, all clubs who are equal in size, stature and playing staff to Liverpool, we aren’t talking Plymouth, Rotherham and the mighty MK Dons here now! |  |
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| Paul Cook on 11:12 - Dec 11 with 795 views | Ely_Blue |
| Paul Cook on 08:37 - Dec 11 by pennblue |
I get all that, and you can't argue with what you are saying. But at the end of the day, having faith in a manager comes down to whether you think he will get it right or not.
I am flogging a dead horse. We do need to move on. I hope the new appointment is soon, or even better we go and spank Wigan 5-0 today. |
Spanking Wigan will probably only end up being a false dawn and we’ll put in another abject display against Barrow anyway | |
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| Paul Cook on 11:23 - Dec 11 with 776 views | Churchman |
| Paul Cook on 10:37 - Dec 11 by Mullet |
It wasn’t really faith at all though was it? That promotion was a shock and the club were not bankrolled by new owners in this division.
The aims and context were totally different. It’s like criticising Cook because SBR never bought that many players in a decade etc. |
We were awful in Lyall’s first season. Gates were poor, apathy was rife and disappointment quite high. Nobody who was there was saying ‘oh well we’ve found our level, 9 years after having one of the best teams in Europe’. Signings were moderate - two notables were Steve Whitton (why has he bothered with that donkey?) and Paul Goddard (old bloke, 5 years too late). They were astute signings for no money.
However, to those who were there, it was clear Lyall was wrestling with basics (like going to head a ball with the eyes open - my dad saw him go berserk at one of the centre halves in training for doing that) and passing the ball instead of the Duncan hoof.
I don’t remember any hint that Lyall was for the chop because in those days it was assumed managers would be given a bit of time. He also had a decent reputation and was thought a good fit for Ipswich. Duncan was actually the first manager in the club’s professional history to be fired.
I believe the aims were pretty similar and the club was wanting to get out of the division. Drifting along with gates of under 10,000 wasn’t what anyone wanted. It’s why they outed Duncan. So yes, I believe they showed faith in Lyall. At hire and fire Town now, he’d have been kicked out after a season at best. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 11:28]
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| Paul Cook on 11:39 - Dec 11 with 759 views | Ely_Blue |
| Paul Cook on 11:23 - Dec 11 by Churchman |
We were awful in Lyall’s first season. Gates were poor, apathy was rife and disappointment quite high. Nobody who was there was saying ‘oh well we’ve found our level, 9 years after having one of the best teams in Europe’. Signings were moderate - two notables were Steve Whitton (why has he bothered with that donkey?) and Paul Goddard (old bloke, 5 years too late). They were astute signings for no money.
However, to those who were there, it was clear Lyall was wrestling with basics (like going to head a ball with the eyes open - my dad saw him go berserk at one of the centre halves in training for doing that) and passing the ball instead of the Duncan hoof.
I don’t remember any hint that Lyall was for the chop because in those days it was assumed managers would be given a bit of time. He also had a decent reputation and was thought a good fit for Ipswich. Duncan was actually the first manager in the club’s professional history to be fired.
I believe the aims were pretty similar and the club was wanting to get out of the division. Drifting along with gates of under 10,000 wasn’t what anyone wanted. It’s why they outed Duncan. So yes, I believe they showed faith in Lyall. At hire and fire Town now, he’d have been kicked out after a season at best. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 11:28]
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If I saw cook or any of his coaches show any semblance of trying to change things or getting frustrated with his team from the touch line at them not doing what he wanted then I could understand and give some time to the guy to get things right but none of us saw any passion and desire that we could change that from the management | |
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| Paul Cook on 11:41 - Dec 11 with 752 views | leitrimblue |
| Paul Cook on 08:16 - Dec 11 by itfcjoe |
Klopp who finished the season at 2 points per game basically over last third of season and got to the UEFA Cup and League Cup final? Definitely similar to a manager who could string two wins together once in a season worth of games |
So klopp started v poorly, the Liverpool board stayed with him and by the final third of the season he had turned it around and was averaging 2 points a game? I think you could be on to something. Cook out! |  | | |
| Paul Cook on 11:41 - Dec 11 with 751 views | Radlett_blue |
| Paul Cook on 11:10 - Dec 11 by pointofblue |
Keane and Hurst could say the same thing - still made a mess of it here. Cook has the worst winning percentage of all of our managers throughout history, excluding Hurst and Milburn. |
Keane was given a season and a half, but with an above average budget for the league we were in, still flirting with relegation didn't look good enough. I doubt he'd have done better with more time.
Jewell got the "new manager bounce", then had a scruffy season, followed by a disastrous start with a side packed with loan players.
Cook had an excellent CV, getting most of his clubs promoted in his second season. While we don't know how big a factor the absence of Richardson was, Cook hadn't impressed with the old Town squad or his new, expensively assembled one. I see why he's been sacked, but if we're going to swap him for someone with a similar or worse CV, such as Neil Harris, I don't get the point. The new man might have a different style of play; I felt Town needed a consistent football strategy but it looks like we're going to keep changing manager until we hit the jackpot and it could be a long wiat, certainly too long for the new owners. |  |
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| Paul Cook on 11:44 - Dec 11 with 727 views | pointofblue |
| Paul Cook on 11:23 - Dec 11 by Churchman |
We were awful in Lyall’s first season. Gates were poor, apathy was rife and disappointment quite high. Nobody who was there was saying ‘oh well we’ve found our level, 9 years after having one of the best teams in Europe’. Signings were moderate - two notables were Steve Whitton (why has he bothered with that donkey?) and Paul Goddard (old bloke, 5 years too late). They were astute signings for no money.
However, to those who were there, it was clear Lyall was wrestling with basics (like going to head a ball with the eyes open - my dad saw him go berserk at one of the centre halves in training for doing that) and passing the ball instead of the Duncan hoof.
I don’t remember any hint that Lyall was for the chop because in those days it was assumed managers would be given a bit of time. He also had a decent reputation and was thought a good fit for Ipswich. Duncan was actually the first manager in the club’s professional history to be fired.
I believe the aims were pretty similar and the club was wanting to get out of the division. Drifting along with gates of under 10,000 wasn’t what anyone wanted. It’s why they outed Duncan. So yes, I believe they showed faith in Lyall. At hire and fire Town now, he’d have been kicked out after a season at best. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 11:28]
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Your second paragraph is key though - to those there it was obviously what Lyall was trying to do, what approach he was trying to impose. In comparison, what the heck was Cook’s approach? What was he trying to achieve? | |
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| Paul Cook on 11:46 - Dec 11 with 704 views | leitrimblue |
| Paul Cook on 09:26 - Dec 11 by Whos_blue |
I think the OP makes an interesting point. Paul Cook of February 2021 probably would be the stand out name. I don’t think many of us predicted it wouldn't work out the way it has, though I'm sure someone will be along to claim they called it on day one!
The problem was that many of the people who wanted to Cook to go (with some justification) were never able to come up with a credible replacement.
If Neil Harris is the pinnacle of what we aspire to, I'm not sure that's the most inspiring of appointments. None of us actually know who's coming though.
Most of us will get behind whoever comes in whether they're our preferred choice or not, but I'm fearful those fans who see promotion this season and nothing else will do, may not get their wish and will start to turn on the new incumbent early.
I really do think we're in trouble, as the fans, well those that post here, are so entrenched in their positions, I worry this place could continue to remain divided for some time.
Could any manager unite us? Not from the current list I'm afraid. |
Have we ever had a 4 manager season? | | | |
| Paul Cook on 11:50 - Dec 11 with 696 views | BlueBadger |
| Paul Cook on 19:14 - Dec 10 by pennblue |
Have you ever hired 19 skilled people before and had them all finely tuned within four months?
If you have please chuck your name into the hat. |
Our opponents today hired 17 and are second in the division.
The side just below them did 14. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 11:53]
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| Paul Cook on 12:02 - Dec 11 with 664 views | tractorshark |
Cook’s biggest mistake was the people he employed as his backroom team.
Forget the Leam Richardson debate, we don’t know for sure whether he was the brains behind the outfit.
But it was fairly clear that Roberts and Jeffers were just jobs for the boys appointments based on being Scousers and having once played for the club.
Regardless of whether these guys had coaching talent, perception is everything.
And when you watched the three of them on the touchline, they never ever convinced you they truly knew what they were doing or could influence or change the game.
If they did, why did Cook turn to Peter Reid? Surely he would have backed his own men but again it was a mate’s rates appointment.
I still think we jumped too early on Cook but as I said earlier in this thread he can’t moan about being sacked because his record was poor.
Unfortunately if you ask me do I think he would have got us promoted this season, the answer would be no. But I do think we had more of a chance of being promoted with him than we do with some of the managers being mentioned.
The owners have got a massive week ahead. My biggest worry is despite all the great PR and financial backing, they don’t know their football.
Which leaves Ashton and Co to advise them. Let’s hope he has a more of a clue than the people who advised Marcus Evans. | | | |
| Paul Cook on 13:42 - Dec 11 with 597 views | broncos77 |
| Paul Cook on 18:22 - Dec 10 by pennblue |
A few mistakes were made for sure. |
Cook had decent credentials for the job but made Big mistakes
It seemed his ego went OTT once he was promised big money and could have any players he wanted (mostly from his earlier jobs)
He revelled in his Demolition Man actions - and treated players he was rejecting very badly (ignoring the old adage of treat people well on the way up etc...)
He brought in players 'promising' them he would build a team around them, then went out and signed others that took their place - 'because he could'
He hyped the 'best squad in the league' etc - when we know from England example that a top '23' doesnt give you a top 11; in fact having so many alternatives in key positions just brings confusion for manager and players
Then when appealing for patience for side to 'gel' he does not use the 'extra' cup games to pick his best team and give then time to do so
and when things clearly not working the players and fans get fed up, and he blames
them
He's missed the best opportunity he's had in his career - and has only himself to blame
Surely other clubs now will be wary of risking his 'demolition' approach | | | |
| Paul Cook on 13:54 - Dec 11 with 579 views | bazza |
| Paul Cook on 11:50 - Dec 11 by BlueBadger |
Our opponents today hired 17 and are second in the division.
The side just below them did 14. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 11:53]
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Pretty sure Wednesday had a similar sized clear out to us.. |  | | |
| Paul Cook on 14:02 - Dec 11 with 556 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Paul Cook on 06:40 - Dec 11 by Yallop |
Really? So if we finish this season in the bottom third you'll want this manager out as well.
What a shower of impatient entitled fans we've turned into. |
"On borrowed time" was my actual phrase.
It wouldn't worry you if the new manage had us involved in a relegation battle? Would it worry you if we were relegated? Some fans seem to think we ought to be no better than Cheltenham and Cambridge. Whilst we have no divine right, we ought to have better ambition than that. Call it entitled if you want, I call it not accepting obscurity let alone mediocrity. |  |
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| Paul Cook on 14:39 - Dec 11 with 507 views | Keaneish |
| Paul Cook on 11:50 - Dec 11 by BlueBadger |
Our opponents today hired 17 and are second in the division.
The side just below them did 14. [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 11:53]
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The Cowleys only won 1 in 7 pre the game at Fratton Park when we convincingly beat them. Now they’re three points off the play-offs and they’ve just won manager of the month.
Massively short-sighted and premature to sack Cook? Let’s just all agree, “yes” and move on. |  |
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