| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:55 - Oct 6 with 4282 views | StokieBlue |
It's a pretty flaky article really.
You seem to not want any debt - the only way for their to be no debt is for everyone to live within their means and be happy for a country to live within it's means. Nobody seems to want that so debt will continue to be used.
Unless you have another alternative?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:55 - Oct 6 with 4283 views | J2BLUE |
You really need to develop some sort of balance. Without my debt i'd be a lot poorer. |  |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:59 - Oct 6 with 4269 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:55 - Oct 6 by StokieBlue |
It's a pretty flaky article really.
You seem to not want any debt - the only way for their to be no debt is for everyone to live within their means and be happy for a country to live within it's means. Nobody seems to want that so debt will continue to be used.
Unless you have another alternative?
SB |
Something to do with property prices bring related to wages.....the good old days!
I found it quite a good observation on the political usefulness of debt. |  |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:02 - Oct 6 with 4263 views | jeera |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:59 - Oct 6 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Something to do with property prices bring related to wages.....the good old days!
I found it quite a good observation on the political usefulness of debt. |
This is the trouble. It's practically impossible for so many people to live within their means now if they want somewhere to live. |  |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:14 - Oct 6 with 4246 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:02 - Oct 6 by jeera |
This is the trouble. It's practically impossible for so many people to live within their means now if they want somewhere to live. |
It's almost like it's part of a plan or something to make some people obscenely wealthy off the debt slavery of the majority isn't it. They could throw in some feel good words like "freedom" and "choice" to make it feel better. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:17 - Oct 6 with 4240 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:55 - Oct 6 by StokieBlue |
It's a pretty flaky article really.
You seem to not want any debt - the only way for their to be no debt is for everyone to live within their means and be happy for a country to live within it's means. Nobody seems to want that so debt will continue to be used.
Unless you have another alternative?
SB |
"You seem to not want any debt - the only way for their to be no debt is for everyone to live within their means and be happy for a country to live within it's means. "
....are you really suggesting that this is a bad thing ? | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:24 - Oct 6 with 4224 views | StokieBlue |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:17 - Oct 6 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"You seem to not want any debt - the only way for their to be no debt is for everyone to live within their means and be happy for a country to live within it's means. "
....are you really suggesting that this is a bad thing ? |
I am suggesting it's not possible unless you're willing to give up a lot of things, something the country is clearly not happy to do.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:53 - Oct 6 with 4202 views | sparks |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:17 - Oct 6 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"You seem to not want any debt - the only way for their to be no debt is for everyone to live within their means and be happy for a country to live within it's means. "
....are you really suggesting that this is a bad thing ? |
Not a bad thing. But you appear to ignore the significant issues of personal choice and responsibility. Slavery is an inflicted abomination. To compare thatcwuth debt is offensive. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:23 - Oct 7 with 4100 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:53 - Oct 6 by sparks |
Not a bad thing. But you appear to ignore the significant issues of personal choice and responsibility. Slavery is an inflicted abomination. To compare thatcwuth debt is offensive. |
Ah the old choice chestnut......the only "choice" is to live under the system imposed upon us. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:27 - Oct 7 with 4090 views | Pendejo |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 22:55 - Oct 6 by J2BLUE |
You really need to develop some sort of balance. Without my debt i'd be a lot poorer. |
I assume... "Without my debt I'd be a lot poorer"... that this means the debt to which you refer is a mortgage on a house that has subsequently increased in value.
Which is fine for the generations up to the point at which the ordinary working people could afford to buy a house at 3.5 x salary + 10% for deposit.
HOWEVER
Once houses prices outstripped sensible mortgage lending I would assert that people are now entering debt to pay for every day items / subsistence rather than something "special" - holiday, car, new kitchen etc. Hence a cycle of debt that only defaulting on repayments [or winning the lottery] enables the individual to escape*. Defaulting i.e. toxic debt very bad for the economy as a whole but hey ho as long as the government can bail out the banks and the rich get richer off the tax payer who cares?
*ok so I'm sure careful budget planning can work... but, other than me, who does that eh?
[ps haven't read the article yet] |  |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:30 - Oct 7 with 4091 views | J2BLUE |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:23 - Oct 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ah the old choice chestnut......the only "choice" is to live under the system imposed upon us. |
What alternative system would you have?
Haven't you previously posted that you choose to live entirely without debt?
The current system imposed on me is making me richer both in terms of net worth and decreasing my monthly expenses. Debt has allowed me to have a mortgage where I pay less to own a two bedroom flat and gain equity than I would to rent a room in a shared house/flat. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:41 - Oct 7 with 4071 views | bluejake78 |
May be I'm missing some thing.I freckin well hit the pain with my 1st house...not even a bed.
Stop mincing around and give 100% you will get there...I was teetotal for 5 years.Never say never and don't be a wimp....I can't make it....wake up and do it. |  | | |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:44 - Oct 7 with 4066 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:30 - Oct 7 by J2BLUE |
What alternative system would you have?
Haven't you previously posted that you choose to live entirely without debt?
The current system imposed on me is making me richer both in terms of net worth and decreasing my monthly expenses. Debt has allowed me to have a mortgage where I pay less to own a two bedroom flat and gain equity than I would to rent a room in a shared house/flat. |
The only real "choice" I have made is as much as possible not to take part in the madness ! If you are paying off more than just the interest on your debt then good luck to you, otherwise (and this is not directed at you) I think we are here.....
Ps I think you will find it's the bank that owns your flat at the moment. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:48 - Oct 7 with 4053 views | No9 |
A good article but propably doesn't go far enough in reminding people what debt has done an, in the UK at least its role in creating the underclass.
Up until the end of the 70's borrowing money had always been limited to the ability to repay the debt. After that it became a case of how much do you want. And of course the endless battering of the mind that you had to get on the housing ladder - or else.
It was a control mechanism by the UK state to encourage people to get into heavy debt so you would be less likley to take any actions to better yourself ( the status quo is safe - bollox) to be happy with your lot etc. etc.
We have moved on to a place where people are less likely to be cocerned about personal bankruptcy or just handing back the car keys to the dealer when they can't afford to poay the instalments.
As all sources are now warnign the politicians it is not just the national debt that is out of control it is personal / household the only question is when will the bang come and how big will it be?
In that respect the author of the article hasn't complete the analysis |  | | |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:49 - Oct 7 with 4045 views | J2BLUE |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:27 - Oct 7 by Pendejo |
I assume... "Without my debt I'd be a lot poorer"... that this means the debt to which you refer is a mortgage on a house that has subsequently increased in value.
Which is fine for the generations up to the point at which the ordinary working people could afford to buy a house at 3.5 x salary + 10% for deposit.
HOWEVER
Once houses prices outstripped sensible mortgage lending I would assert that people are now entering debt to pay for every day items / subsistence rather than something "special" - holiday, car, new kitchen etc. Hence a cycle of debt that only defaulting on repayments [or winning the lottery] enables the individual to escape*. Defaulting i.e. toxic debt very bad for the economy as a whole but hey ho as long as the government can bail out the banks and the rich get richer off the tax payer who cares?
*ok so I'm sure careful budget planning can work... but, other than me, who does that eh?
[ps haven't read the article yet] |
Well yes and no. A near identical flat sold for £41,000 more than I paid about 3-4 months ago but that isn't something i'm thinking about really. It's kind of nice but it's fairly meaningless really because other property will have gone up in value as well and I will either be living here or moving to another property so the 'gains' aren't really gains. I think i'd prefer the value of properties to fall back to the level I bought at for the sake of first time buyers.
I was mainly talking about my monthly expenses. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:56 - Oct 7 with 4035 views | J2BLUE |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:44 - Oct 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The only real "choice" I have made is as much as possible not to take part in the madness ! If you are paying off more than just the interest on your debt then good luck to you, otherwise (and this is not directed at you) I think we are here.....
Ps I think you will find it's the bank that owns your flat at the moment. |
I'm paying more than just the interest. I would never opt for an interest only mortgage.
You're right, the bank do own it at the moment but my mortgage is very low (thanks to help with a deposit which I was lucky enough to receive) and barring some extraordinary unforeseen circumstances I will always be able to pay it. I have also locked in a low rate for 5 years of which I have 4 years and 2 months remaining so higher interest rates short term won't affect me. I can't see any way interest rates are going to be significantly higher in 4 years time and i'm hoping to have a decent lump sum to pay some off the mortgage amount. My point here is that used well debt can be very helpful IMO. There's sensible debt and there is stupid debt. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:57 - Oct 7 with 4032 views | Pendejo |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 23:53 - Oct 6 by sparks |
Not a bad thing. But you appear to ignore the significant issues of personal choice and responsibility. Slavery is an inflicted abomination. To compare thatcwuth debt is offensive. |
Definition of slave[ry]
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/slave
Supports use here, all that is missing are the physical chains . You could argue that when one financial institution sells their "book" to another it is the equivalent of the slaves being traded between owners.
As for inflicted, as I've posted elsewhere on this thread, where a person is using debt for subsistence due to ridiculous cost of property [buying or renting] vis a vis the debt is inflicted. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:58 - Oct 7 with 4029 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:48 - Oct 7 by No9 |
A good article but propably doesn't go far enough in reminding people what debt has done an, in the UK at least its role in creating the underclass.
Up until the end of the 70's borrowing money had always been limited to the ability to repay the debt. After that it became a case of how much do you want. And of course the endless battering of the mind that you had to get on the housing ladder - or else.
It was a control mechanism by the UK state to encourage people to get into heavy debt so you would be less likley to take any actions to better yourself ( the status quo is safe - bollox) to be happy with your lot etc. etc.
We have moved on to a place where people are less likely to be cocerned about personal bankruptcy or just handing back the car keys to the dealer when they can't afford to poay the instalments.
As all sources are now warnign the politicians it is not just the national debt that is out of control it is personal / household the only question is when will the bang come and how big will it be?
In that respect the author of the article hasn't complete the analysis |
I think you might enjoy his back catalogue as it covers most of this.
One of the images I have in my mind is of the property owning middle classes (all that unearned 'wealth' tied up in inflated property values ) as being the key holding jailers for the status quo prison owners ! Luckily I don't hold a grudge! | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:59 - Oct 7 with 4020 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:44 - Oct 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The only real "choice" I have made is as much as possible not to take part in the madness ! If you are paying off more than just the interest on your debt then good luck to you, otherwise (and this is not directed at you) I think we are here.....
Ps I think you will find it's the bank that owns your flat at the moment. |
You still haven't answered how the world progresses without individuals, companies and governments getting in debt. You seem to be suggesting all debt is somehow inherantly evil and should be avoided at all costs.
An individual/ company/ country will be worse off if it only ticks over and everyone survives on what they produce or earn. If another individual/company/country is prepared to "risk" measured debt to progress and invest then they will be ahead of the game nearly always.
It's seemingly a brilliant, utopian dream to live without debt, within means and self sufficiently but in reality it's bobbins, and it's not people being forced to do other wise, its people attempting to potentially have better lives.
Now excessive and bad debts are another issue entirely, but to suggest that debt is all to do with the man keeping us as slaves is absolutely ridiculous. |  | | |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:01 - Oct 7 with 4016 views | J2BLUE |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:58 - Oct 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think you might enjoy his back catalogue as it covers most of this.
One of the images I have in my mind is of the property owning middle classes (all that unearned 'wealth' tied up in inflated property values ) as being the key holding jailers for the status quo prison owners ! Luckily I don't hold a grudge! |
It seems that it isn't the system that is wrong, it's the lack of financial education.
People have the choice to educate themselves about their finances. It should be taught in schools but people have the choice to learn for themselves. | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:04 - Oct 7 with 4000 views | No9 |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:01 - Oct 7 by J2BLUE |
It seems that it isn't the system that is wrong, it's the lack of financial education.
People have the choice to educate themselves about their finances. It should be taught in schools but people have the choice to learn for themselves. |
& J2, pre 80's that education was at hand when you went to borrow money.
The 80s' was he time when the public, especially young people, were taught to forget silly things like debt our inflation will take care of that
Even at 15% interest rates some people were still taking out loans | | | |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:08 - Oct 7 with 3994 views | No9 |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:58 - Oct 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think you might enjoy his back catalogue as it covers most of this.
One of the images I have in my mind is of the property owning middle classes (all that unearned 'wealth' tied up in inflated property values ) as being the key holding jailers for the status quo prison owners ! Luckily I don't hold a grudge! |
I have a pile of books to read which provide interesting insights into how we got into this mess.
Of course we have more people wh are even more desperate to make us believe the Chicago school were right, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I shall make a note to reearch his stuff | | | |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:11 - Oct 7 with 3987 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:58 - Oct 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think you might enjoy his back catalogue as it covers most of this.
One of the images I have in my mind is of the property owning middle classes (all that unearned 'wealth' tied up in inflated property values ) as being the key holding jailers for the status quo prison owners ! Luckily I don't hold a grudge! |
I get that the housing market is at present becoming a sh1t storm but the ridiculously devisive language aimed at those who happen to own there own home just makes the debate pointless.
"property owning middle classes" Two thirds of people in the UK own their own home(though this is falling admittedly). Plus there are plenty of nice middle class people who dont and plenty of working class people who do.
Framing everything as class warfare/ rich vs poor, us vs the man is a fun thing to do when whipping up hysteria but otherwise pointless.
I say all this as a postie owning my own home, how confusing. Am I a downtrodden debt slave working class drone or a hoity toity middle class snob benefitting from the oppressed millions who is part of the problem? | | | |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:25 - Oct 7 with 3972 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 09:59 - Oct 7 by Axeldalai_lama |
You still haven't answered how the world progresses without individuals, companies and governments getting in debt. You seem to be suggesting all debt is somehow inherantly evil and should be avoided at all costs.
An individual/ company/ country will be worse off if it only ticks over and everyone survives on what they produce or earn. If another individual/company/country is prepared to "risk" measured debt to progress and invest then they will be ahead of the game nearly always.
It's seemingly a brilliant, utopian dream to live without debt, within means and self sufficiently but in reality it's bobbins, and it's not people being forced to do other wise, its people attempting to potentially have better lives.
Now excessive and bad debts are another issue entirely, but to suggest that debt is all to do with the man keeping us as slaves is absolutely ridiculous. |
Out of interest, have you read the article, it's about the political opportunism of debt. The reality is that I essentially agree with you, however so much debt offered today does not meet your criteria. Furthermore I would have to add the proviso that any useful debt should be used for the end of creating a steady state economy and not to further unsustainable growth and eventual ecocide. I have added links to positive money many times before but here we go again...
http://positivemoney.org/ | |
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| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:27 - Oct 7 with 3966 views | Pendejo |
| A lovely blog on debt slavery..... on 10:01 - Oct 7 by J2BLUE |
It seems that it isn't the system that is wrong, it's the lack of financial education.
People have the choice to educate themselves about their finances. It should be taught in schools but people have the choice to learn for themselves. |
I both disagree and agree with your opening stement.
The system IS wrong, and it went wrong when the council houses were first sold off without replenishment or repayment clauses [e.g. make 10% profit, pay 10% of the profit back into the system].
Had the supply of sellable council housing been kept up, replenished and there been subject to repayment clauses we would not be at the point where the average home is 12.5 times the average wage in London.
I most certainly agree with the point about financial education. Budgeting more relevant in real life than trig for most of us. | |
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