| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here 08:25 - Oct 23 with 8711 views | Steve_M |
After all the build up then, the familiar sense of frustration and resignation. The combination of a failure to take good chances when on top and a lack of real belief that we could get back into the match after going behind is becoming a little too common at the moment.
First the good stuff, I thought the first half performance was good: it had energy and movement and chances created. It was let down by the failure to force a decent save out of Gunn and the continuing weakness wide. Even in that half Norwich had too much time to cut in and shoot from the edge of the box.
Norwich were clearly told to go full on with the gamesmanship in the second half and it worked, we couldn't get any rhythm or tempo to our play although still did enough to spurn another good chance. We might have been ok but for the goal and, given how awful it was, that's a very big but. Yes, Skuse was off the pitch but someone needed to take charge in the middle in his absence.
After that, we disappointed. No lack of effort but a real lack of belief and conviction in what we did. Just like the second halves at QPR and against Bristol City or the last 30 minutes at Sheffield we attacked but never really looked like we thought we would score. The crowd felt it too - the reaction to the corner at the end showed that fans wanted to be positive but needed something to get behind.
How does this change? In the short-term it's down to McCarthy (shouting for Evans to sack him won't have any effect and will be counter-productive to the team) to get the balance right - we can do it as we showed for part of yesterday's match but we don't have the tactical flexibility to change it effectively - it comes down to individual skill rather than a system. When out best player is as poor on the ball as he was yesterday then we are obviously weaker.
The real failing of McCarthy in recent years is that we don't have a system of play. We're trying to play the ball around more, and generally succeeding, and sporadically we play with energy and tempo but everything is improvised. We are better than last season, the failings yesterday notwithstanding we have a goal threat that wasn't there last season but it isn't really enough to suggest we're going to see year-on-year improvement: that familiar sense of resignation and frustration reigns at Portman Road.
I've spoken to very few fans who don't think that last Summer was the ideal time to change manager, certainly I can't see how we progress without a change next Summer. It's not that McCarthy has done a bad job because overall he hasn't - but five years is a long time, Burley was only manager for seven and a half and we are just drifting at the moment.
The thing is though that whilst Evans still owns the club,a new manager isn't going to do more than provide a short-lived burst of optimism for fans. The cycle will continue: if Evans gets the right appointment then it might take three years rather than 18 months before fans want another change.
It's not just about the money going in but Evans lack of a plan or coherent approach to the club - if anyone believes that the five point plan hastily made up last season is more than window dressing than perhaps I can interest you in some magic beans? The whole state of the ground, paint peeling off the outside of the North stand is symptomatic of a cost-cutting approach that will cost more to rectify in the long-term. Not that Evans really seems to care about the long-term.
It's not so much frustrating as depressing and I don't see way out of it in the current football environment. A few good wins, the odd shout in the play-offs and that's about it. I don't see any point spending the rest of the season wanting the manager sacked, the good bits yesterday suggested that we can do ok this season with MM and then we are back hoping Evans can manage the transition to a new manager properly*.
*Spoiler: he probably won't. [Post edited 23 Oct 2017 8:31]
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:51 - Oct 23 with 2153 views | Garv |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:22 - Oct 23 by christiand |
The right side was a problem all day long yesterday, but MM won't play an out an out winger there as he can't shoe-horn Waghorn into the side otherwise. This is what I can't understand he has a player in Rowe that is desperate to prove himself at this level, playing well for the U23 side which even MM has acknowledged recently, but he just doesn't get a sniff of any first team action. He showed enough last season that he looks decent going forwards and he is prepared to do the horrible stuff to help the right back defensively. |
Along with midfield in general Mick's biggest failure. He has Rowe and a Manchester City player and he doesn't use them. |  |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:53 - Oct 23 with 2143 views | soupytwist |
My son and I had had season tickets for the last 6 seasons & didn’t renew at the end of last season. Yesterday was the first time we’d seen the team this season. All it did was reinforce the decision not to renew. The same failings with one or two bright spots - Nydam, introduction of Downes, Waghorn going forward on the right in the first half. At best we’re treading water and in reality we’re watching other clubs leave us behind. McCarthy is unlikely to get us relegated but we could be too close to the wrong end of the table for comfort again.
As Mick Mills said, MMc needs to find a way of integrating the right players into the right formation. Garner needs his shoulder sorting out, bite the bullet and get that done. In the meantime stop putting Waghorn out wide and stick him up front, alongside McGoldrick or just ahead of him. Put someone on the right (Sears? Rowe?) who will give our full back some cover. Keep Skuse deep if necessary and add two midfielders with some energy - Downes/Nydam and AN Other, presumably Adeyemi. Hope that HUws gets fit before the end of the season. Work out what to do with Celina.
I’m not saying there are easy answers to all of that, but if MMc can’t work it out he needs to consider alternative employment. |  | | |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:54 - Oct 23 with 2136 views | Jimmy86 |
To coin a word used by Stuart Watson quite frequently, the feeling of apathy I suffered from yesterday was quite sad. Of course I still care, but I'm resigned to the fact it was going to happen. There's a real ground hog day feeling surrounding the club.
Sick of hearing Evans can't compete financially, that's absolute cobblers. The man is worth 765million... The fact is he won't compete and there's a big difference between can't and won't. That is well and truly Evans fault.
Now to Mick, who has by and large done a good job with the hand he's been dealt, that must be recognised first and foremost. In the play off season, whilst it wasn't pretty or easy on the eye, our direct style was effective and achieved results.
We prided ourselves on being hard to beat, but the fact we now concede so many poor goals, so frequently worries me greatly, as that is Mick's bread and butter.
At Wolves and throughout his managerial career Mick has been a 4 4 2 man, even during his time at town. Problem with this, is 4 4 2 was successful in the past. Not many teams play 4 4 2 now, as the midfield gets over run. Mick's biggest fault is he has no defined system. We have recently changed system 2 or 3 times again and it smacks of make it up as you go along.
There are managers out there who could do a job with our current squad, which is certainly better than last season and possibly the best during Mick's time here. We need to decide on a system, that will get the best out of the players we have available and stick with this for a run of games. Don't shoehorn players into a system, just to get them into the team.
Missed yesterdays game, due to work. Don't know whether it would be painful viewing to watch the recording on sky.
Where do we go from here?? [Post edited 23 Oct 2017 10:00]
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:54 - Oct 23 with 2133 views | Steve_M |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:25 - Oct 23 by SWGF |
I liked Nodge's formation and balance. They had players playing in their positions. The three behind Jerome were well suited to their roles; two wingers/wide players and a number 10 (all of who worked hard and dropped back when needed). The two in front of the back four formed a decent shield. Jerome didn't do much other than occasionally occupy our centre halves but that's his job, I suppose.
As it goes, I reckon we could have the players to mimic their formation and could do well with it, however MM seems to want to constantly change formation without necessarily changing the personnel to suit it.
As seemingly ever, we were getting our best players on the pitch and trying to get them into a formation which may or may not have matched their capabilities/strengths; again forcing McG into a left wing role which may or may not have had an effect on his performance which was poor. Waghorn blew hot and cold. Not convinced Garner was fit. Similarly Adeyemi who visibly flagged in the second half.
Pretty much everyone I spoke to at halftime and who I glanced on Twitter was citing the space in wide areas (in front of Spence particularly) as being a problem. It just continued in the second half. If the wide players aren't going to offer their fullbacks any cover, you may as well play Celina and let him just attack. We were relying on the central midfield three to have to run out wide to cover, which may have resulted in Adeyemi blowing out of his backside early.
One thing we picked up on, as you have, is what looked like a distinct lack of belief to actually make something happen. That's last season all over and results in the lumping of the ball up front which we saw more of in the second half, esp after they'd scored.
We need a result against Burton. This season could quickly turn as sterile and flat as the last if MM gets the whiff of relegation in his nostrils. |
Norwich certainly knew what they were doing, the lack of goal threat will probably stop them making a very strong promotion challenge and their failure to win home matches will make things harder. Jerome and Hoolihan looked a great deal less effective than they used to but Madison was very good.
We do risk becoming very easy to play against: sit back, let us get frustrated and then exploit the gaps. There are a few teams good enough to do that in this division. Equally I don't think Burton are one of them, if we go out and play like in the first half yesterday then we should have a good chance of winning that. | |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:02 - Oct 23 with 2105 views | itfcjoe |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:14 - Oct 23 by ITFC_Forever |
A settled back four would certainly help....people moaning about Spence yesterday obviously didn't see Iorfa at Sheff U.
Yesterday was probably Spence's worst game for us, he's actually been ok on the whole. |
As bad as Spence was, he was up against a good player and got no support from Waghorn. They stretched the game wide very well and he was totally isolated. |  |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:06 - Oct 23 with 2084 views | ITFC_Forever |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:02 - Oct 23 by itfcjoe |
As bad as Spence was, he was up against a good player and got no support from Waghorn. They stretched the game wide very well and he was totally isolated. |
Yes, I kind of alluded to that point in my long post (although perhaps not very well)... our 433 was too narrow and allowed Norwich to exploit the space out wide and then isolate and run rings around the FBs, Spence in particular. |  |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:07 - Oct 23 with 2079 views | itfcjoe |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:25 - Oct 23 by SWGF |
I liked Nodge's formation and balance. They had players playing in their positions. The three behind Jerome were well suited to their roles; two wingers/wide players and a number 10 (all of who worked hard and dropped back when needed). The two in front of the back four formed a decent shield. Jerome didn't do much other than occasionally occupy our centre halves but that's his job, I suppose.
As it goes, I reckon we could have the players to mimic their formation and could do well with it, however MM seems to want to constantly change formation without necessarily changing the personnel to suit it.
As seemingly ever, we were getting our best players on the pitch and trying to get them into a formation which may or may not have matched their capabilities/strengths; again forcing McG into a left wing role which may or may not have had an effect on his performance which was poor. Waghorn blew hot and cold. Not convinced Garner was fit. Similarly Adeyemi who visibly flagged in the second half.
Pretty much everyone I spoke to at halftime and who I glanced on Twitter was citing the space in wide areas (in front of Spence particularly) as being a problem. It just continued in the second half. If the wide players aren't going to offer their fullbacks any cover, you may as well play Celina and let him just attack. We were relying on the central midfield three to have to run out wide to cover, which may have resulted in Adeyemi blowing out of his backside early.
One thing we picked up on, as you have, is what looked like a distinct lack of belief to actually make something happen. That's last season all over and results in the lumping of the ball up front which we saw more of in the second half, esp after they'd scored.
We need a result against Burton. This season could quickly turn as sterile and flat as the last if MM gets the whiff of relegation in his nostrils. |
4231 seems the most obvious fit for the squad we have, it puts nearly all our better players in roles that suit them in both an attacking and defensive sense.
GK - Bart, Gerken
RB - Connolly, Spence, Iorfa
CB - Webster, Smith, Chambers
LB - Knudsen, Kenlock
CM - Skuse, Adeyemi, Nydam, Downes, Huws
3 behind striker - Celina, McG, Sears, Ward, Rowe
ST - Waghorn, Garner
Bar possibly Waghorn and Kenlock, that just works. Madness that we haven't given it an extended run when we have had some good results playing that way - this need to change it up every game is not doing the players any favours | |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:11 - Oct 23 with 2063 views | Darth_Koont |
Excellent post.
You nailed it with the idea that our play is "improvised". Exactly my feeling when we see players unable to combine that effectively and seemingly taking the direct but low-percentage option time and again.
I think on one hand that giving players the opportunity to try things means we can score goals out of nothing and get results. And it also gives players like McGoldrick and Waghorn the freedom and space they often thrive on. But of course in games where we could and probably should apply team pressure it's a common failing to see us lose the ball cheaply with that approach.
If I'm looking at the potential for us to get better at this I suppose the difference this year is having players who are more comfortable on the ball throughout the team. And a combination of Skuse and Adeyemi who look capable of doing the hard work in midfield to put us in the right sort of position to keep the ball.
But we quickly need to see this change in personnel bring about a change in performances not just the false dawns of a good half here and an excellent 5 minutes there. Problem is that now it's the results that first and foremost need to change around ... |  |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:14 - Oct 23 with 2050 views | Jimmy86 |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:07 - Oct 23 by itfcjoe |
4231 seems the most obvious fit for the squad we have, it puts nearly all our better players in roles that suit them in both an attacking and defensive sense.
GK - Bart, Gerken
RB - Connolly, Spence, Iorfa
CB - Webster, Smith, Chambers
LB - Knudsen, Kenlock
CM - Skuse, Adeyemi, Nydam, Downes, Huws
3 behind striker - Celina, McG, Sears, Ward, Rowe
ST - Waghorn, Garner
Bar possibly Waghorn and Kenlock, that just works. Madness that we haven't given it an extended run when we have had some good results playing that way - this need to change it up every game is not doing the players any favours |
Mick will even change systems 2 or 3 times in a game!! That smacks of make it up as you go along.
We need a settled system for a number of games, the players will then be aware of their roles and also others around them.
Mick used to have us so well drilled as a team and we were harder to beat than what we are now. We're conceding soft goals on a frequent basis and Mick has always prided himself on keeping things right and being hard to beat | | | |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:29 - Oct 23 with 2011 views | imsureazzure |
narwich looked coached, they had a plan, they had round pegs in round holes, they were more "professional" than us, we were out managed, our fans were out sung by supporters who sang original if sh1t songs, what a depressing day and Monday is even worse.
FFS MM have some pride and jack it in. |  | | |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:53 - Oct 23 with 1958 views | SWGF |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:51 - Oct 23 by Garv |
Along with midfield in general Mick's biggest failure. He has Rowe and a Manchester City player and he doesn't use them. |
And is less likely to use them the more we have to "dig in" and grind out results, esp away from home. |  |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 11:27 - Oct 23 with 1919 views | Illinoisblue |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 10:02 - Oct 23 by itfcjoe |
As bad as Spence was, he was up against a good player and got no support from Waghorn. They stretched the game wide very well and he was totally isolated. |
Good point re Waghorn; for all mick’s talk of his players having to do the ugly stuff and track back, and work hard, That wasn’t too evident from Waghorn |  |
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| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 12:04 - Oct 23 with 1877 views | StNeotsBlue |
| A few thoughts on yesterday and where we go from here on 09:01 - Oct 23 by Reuser_is_God |
How we are so weak at RB is a joke, since January MM has signed 3 players to play there but he doesn't know who to pick because none of them are very good. |
Agree entirely, Spence's best games have been playing as part of a central 3 and we have TWO loaned right backs who aren't good enough for the starting eleven. |  | | |
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