| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one 08:00 - May 22 with 7520 views | giant_stow |
Fatal and in broad daylight on the high Street. Govt, get a fcking grip ffs. Govern! |  |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 08:05 - May 22 with 4164 views | Herbivore |
Too busy with Brexit, governing is on hold for at least the next two and a half years as it has been for the last two years, sadly. |  |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 08:11 - May 22 with 4144 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 08:05 - May 22 by Herbivore |
Too busy with Brexit, governing is on hold for at least the next two and a half years as it has been for the last two years, sadly. |
Totally agree. The opportunity costs of brexit are ignored and huge. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 09:51 - May 22 with 4048 views | imsureazzure |
Would they be allowed to 'get a grip' by the excusers?
Does the mayor not have any influence?
Stop and search, 10 years for possession of a knife 1st offence, it would work if there was a continued programme, no leniency no excuses.
Stop and search doubtless has problems but in the short term it is very much required. |  | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 09:56 - May 22 with 4033 views | chicoazul |
Alternatively, everyone stop doing coke. Your selfish pleasures are a direct cause of this violence. |  |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 10:00 - May 22 with 4018 views | Uncle_Bulgaria |
We have a Mayor who sees his current job as a stepping stone to a leadership role in the Labour Party in the next few years, and uses it as a platform to take potshots in the media at national & international governments/political figures he disagrees with.
He is impotent, ineffective and utterly mute on the major issue that obviously disturbs the majority of Londoners. Doesn't want his name associated with something deteriorating so alarmingly. Central Government bears responsibility too but the Mayor has demonstrably failed to show any leadership or willingness to grasp a very dangerous situation. |  | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 10:28 - May 22 with 3978 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 10:00 - May 22 by Uncle_Bulgaria |
We have a Mayor who sees his current job as a stepping stone to a leadership role in the Labour Party in the next few years, and uses it as a platform to take potshots in the media at national & international governments/political figures he disagrees with.
He is impotent, ineffective and utterly mute on the major issue that obviously disturbs the majority of Londoners. Doesn't want his name associated with something deteriorating so alarmingly. Central Government bears responsibility too but the Mayor has demonstrably failed to show any leadership or willingness to grasp a very dangerous situation. |
All fair points chaps (es?)
Although isn't the Mayor limited by central budgets to a degree (in terms of extra police)?
And Chico, couldn't decriminalisation achieve the same outcome, without coke fiends being asked to change and the benefit added tax income if drugs were regulated? Some of this violence isn't drug related either, but just robbery... [Post edited 22 May 2018 10:29]
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:07 - May 22 with 3943 views | Guthrum |
What exactly can the government do about drug gang warfare in London? All of the activity involved is already illegal. Pouring money into the police means it needs to be taken from somewhere else, e.g. the NHS. |  |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:16 - May 22 with 3928 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:07 - May 22 by Guthrum |
What exactly can the government do about drug gang warfare in London? All of the activity involved is already illegal. Pouring money into the police means it needs to be taken from somewhere else, e.g. the NHS. |
That's a very defeatist question, if you don't mind me saying so fella.
Personally, I'd reverse the spending cuts on police and boost numbers massively and if that can't be done by spending more in total, then take money off pensions: the only area which has been left untouched by austerity, more or less.
I like also like the ideas above re stiffer sentences (more money to be spent on prisons, but see above for funding) and increased stop and search *if* done respectfully and without prejudice -ie stopping gang members known to local coppers, not just black kids. Make it impossible for them to take a knife out. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:23 - May 22 with 3909 views | Radlett_blue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:07 - May 22 by Guthrum |
What exactly can the government do about drug gang warfare in London? All of the activity involved is already illegal. Pouring money into the police means it needs to be taken from somewhere else, e.g. the NHS. |
The rise in knife crime is largely related to gang culture, not lack or resources. If someone has some constructive suggestions as to what the government should do about gang culture, I would love to hear them. |  |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:28 - May 22 with 3902 views | tcblue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:16 - May 22 by giant_stow |
That's a very defeatist question, if you don't mind me saying so fella.
Personally, I'd reverse the spending cuts on police and boost numbers massively and if that can't be done by spending more in total, then take money off pensions: the only area which has been left untouched by austerity, more or less.
I like also like the ideas above re stiffer sentences (more money to be spent on prisons, but see above for funding) and increased stop and search *if* done respectfully and without prejudice -ie stopping gang members known to local coppers, not just black kids. Make it impossible for them to take a knife out. |
The problem is that stop and search isn't done respectfully and without prejudice. Anywhere. And doesn't resolve the root cause. What's the bigger fear for some of these people do you think - being stopped and jailed, or being out in a fight without a knife and facing someone who has?
It's too simplistic to point the fingers at policing tactics, or even the swingeing cuts - yeah, neither of these things help in a crisis, but what's the bigger picture, why are people doing this? Why do people choose, or have to resort to this life? What do we as a society do to enable this behaviour? Can we really just believe that they are all just 'bad people'? |  | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:28 - May 22 with 3897 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:23 - May 22 by Radlett_blue |
The rise in knife crime is largely related to gang culture, not lack or resources. If someone has some constructive suggestions as to what the government should do about gang culture, I would love to hear them. |
There's been much noise made recently from those in the know (coppers, local politicians, community leaders) about police cuts resulting in a liase fair attitude amongst gangs members. I can't give you hard facts, but the opinions are out there. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:31 - May 22 with 3893 views | chicoazul |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:23 - May 22 by Radlett_blue |
The rise in knife crime is largely related to gang culture, not lack or resources. If someone has some constructive suggestions as to what the government should do about gang culture, I would love to hear them. |
Clamp down on buyers of drugs not sellers. Remove the demand. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:33 - May 22 with 3887 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:28 - May 22 by tcblue |
The problem is that stop and search isn't done respectfully and without prejudice. Anywhere. And doesn't resolve the root cause. What's the bigger fear for some of these people do you think - being stopped and jailed, or being out in a fight without a knife and facing someone who has?
It's too simplistic to point the fingers at policing tactics, or even the swingeing cuts - yeah, neither of these things help in a crisis, but what's the bigger picture, why are people doing this? Why do people choose, or have to resort to this life? What do we as a society do to enable this behaviour? Can we really just believe that they are all just 'bad people'? |
I totally agree that wider culture and society is the root cause of crime full stop, not just gang violence. But no one ever wants to go near that do they, cause it's just too uncomfortable and big. It brings up questions about how we *all* live and that just gets stuck in a political loop, so what are we left with in reality? Stop and search and more policing. Again, I have no evidence, but have read several community leader types saying that there *is* a place for stop and search if done the right way. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:33 - May 22 with 3886 views | tcblue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:31 - May 22 by chicoazul |
Clamp down on buyers of drugs not sellers. Remove the demand. |
Agree. And do the same for alcohol and tobacco. | | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:35 - May 22 with 3865 views | chicoazul |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:33 - May 22 by tcblue |
Agree. And do the same for alcohol and tobacco. |
Alcohol and tobacco are legal. Children arent killing one another in the streets over control of an illegal trade in gin. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:36 - May 22 with 3861 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:31 - May 22 by chicoazul |
Clamp down on buyers of drugs not sellers. Remove the demand. |
Prohibition didn't work in yankland - why would it work now?
How about legalisation and regulation? | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:36 - May 22 with 3852 views | BloomBlue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:28 - May 22 by giant_stow |
There's been much noise made recently from those in the know (coppers, local politicians, community leaders) about police cuts resulting in a liase fair attitude amongst gangs members. I can't give you hard facts, but the opinions are out there. |
Where as when they talk to gang members they laugh at that and say increasing police numbers wouldn't make any difference. The issue now is they can see alll the goading etc on social media and one a person/grp want to look big on Facebook or whatever they're going to go after them irrelevant of police numbers.
What you're seeing now is one of the disadvantages of social media. |  | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:36 - May 22 with 3855 views | tcblue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:35 - May 22 by chicoazul |
Alcohol and tobacco are legal. Children arent killing one another in the streets over control of an illegal trade in gin. |
Good point.
Okay, legalise the other drugs then.
We got there chico! We have solved this. High five! | | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:39 - May 22 with 3844 views | tcblue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:33 - May 22 by giant_stow |
I totally agree that wider culture and society is the root cause of crime full stop, not just gang violence. But no one ever wants to go near that do they, cause it's just too uncomfortable and big. It brings up questions about how we *all* live and that just gets stuck in a political loop, so what are we left with in reality? Stop and search and more policing. Again, I have no evidence, but have read several community leader types saying that there *is* a place for stop and search if done the right way. |
But it has NEVER been done the right way. Not even in New York City which was the much lauded model here last time we discussed this (they are quietly dropping it).
So, it isn't reality. There's no magic because it relies upon asking our police to be beyond prejudice, which is unrealistic. | | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:41 - May 22 with 3838 views | giant_stow |
Normally, I wouldn't bother with down arrows, but must admit I'm intrigued as to why these ones came? Do you fellas think the govt has no power over this at all and should just give up? Was it the swearing?! I'm a little baffled...! | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:45 - May 22 with 3830 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:39 - May 22 by tcblue |
But it has NEVER been done the right way. Not even in New York City which was the much lauded model here last time we discussed this (they are quietly dropping it).
So, it isn't reality. There's no magic because it relies upon asking our police to be beyond prejudice, which is unrealistic. |
I'm not asking individual police officers to be beyond prejudice, as that's impossible for any individual. What I am looking for is a fair system with checks and accountability whereby known local gang members can be targeted, with respect and dignity. This shouldn't be impossible. [Post edited 22 May 2018 11:46]
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:46 - May 22 with 3828 views | brazil1982 |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:16 - May 22 by giant_stow |
That's a very defeatist question, if you don't mind me saying so fella.
Personally, I'd reverse the spending cuts on police and boost numbers massively and if that can't be done by spending more in total, then take money off pensions: the only area which has been left untouched by austerity, more or less.
I like also like the ideas above re stiffer sentences (more money to be spent on prisons, but see above for funding) and increased stop and search *if* done respectfully and without prejudice -ie stopping gang members known to local coppers, not just black kids. Make it impossible for them to take a knife out. |
Take money off pensions? My Mum would love that, being on the minimum amount.
Maybe ask why some cultural groups of our lovely, diverse-rich capital are so stabby. | | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:47 - May 22 with 3821 views | giant_stow |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:46 - May 22 by brazil1982 |
Take money off pensions? My Mum would love that, being on the minimum amount.
Maybe ask why some cultural groups of our lovely, diverse-rich capital are so stabby. |
Ah, you're a racist! Ok mr, no worries. | |
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| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:48 - May 22 with 3818 views | tcblue |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:45 - May 22 by giant_stow |
I'm not asking individual police officers to be beyond prejudice, as that's impossible for any individual. What I am looking for is a fair system with checks and accountability whereby known local gang members can be targeted, with respect and dignity. This shouldn't be impossible. [Post edited 22 May 2018 11:46]
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And yet it hasn't ever been done fairly, to my knowledge. Why is that, do you think?
(I don't have any answers either, and I don't like chucking the towel in, but equally it seems a bit simplistic that we're assuming that it's something achievable and yet the people who are experts in their field haven't been able to do it) | | | |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:53 - May 22 with 3805 views | Guthrum |
| Three more stabbings in Islington alone in the last few days, one on 11:23 - May 22 by Radlett_blue |
The rise in knife crime is largely related to gang culture, not lack or resources. If someone has some constructive suggestions as to what the government should do about gang culture, I would love to hear them. |
One particular problem is about aspirations. If joining a gang and dealing drugs is perceived to be the best way of escaping from a life of poverty and low status on an ageing housing estate in South London, then it's bound to attract people. It's no coincidence that sport and music are also furiously popular in those areas - other passports out.
To change that would require massive investment to provide education and decent-paying jobs for kids to go into. Not going to happen. Even if the money was there, the work isn't. | |
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