| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? 12:46 - Jun 18 with 3619 views | Swansea_Blue |
Standards are slipping.
We've gone from May's £600m Brexit dividend with a "minor" tax top-up, to Hunt (the *unt) confirming that Brexit savings (if any) won't be "anywhere near enough" all in the space of a couple of days.
Why are we happy to let a thoroughly ineffective 'leader' brazenly and repeatedly lie to us? |  |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:02 - Jun 18 with 1246 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 13:33 - Jun 18 by BtreeBlueBlood |
They didnt factor this in........
And now gaming addiction is going to be treated by the nhs!!
Well there goes the 20billion! |
Yeah, I'd probably need £1bn just for mine  | |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:07 - Jun 18 with 1235 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 13:52 - Jun 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
So its OK to lie so long as youre not in power? |
No, not at all. As I said in response to Glassers, Corbyn was equally wrong to claim he was going to part-fund pledges also through a 'Brexit dividend'.
I'd like honesty from all sides.
I'm not a Labour fan, but I also don't agree with the stock response of 'what about Labour' whenever the Tories are criticised. | |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:23 - Jun 18 with 1216 views | No9 |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 13:11 - Jun 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Because when they dismally failed to win the general election, they were making huge promises that they couldnt fund. |
How do you know they couldn't fund it?
The costed it & it get a slagging from the IFS
The tories didn't cost theirs & no one said a word
Double standards |  | | |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:39 - Jun 18 with 1215 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 13:13 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
I don't know. Possibly the same place as last time (which presumably was through increased taxes through economic growth?), as at least they've a track record of investing in the NHS.
Anyway this wasn't meant to be a Labour v Cons debate. Even the Tory's biggest supporters surely can't be happy with what's coming out of number 10 recently? |
Labour would have kept us in the single market and customs union, and saved around £10bn a year for a start. Would they actually have spent it on the NHS? I am quite sure they would. [Post edited 18 Jun 2018 14:42]
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:41 - Jun 18 with 1206 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:23 - Jun 18 by No9 |
How do you know they couldn't fund it?
The costed it & it get a slagging from the IFS
The tories didn't cost theirs & no one said a word
Double standards |
I think quite a few people said something.
However what is worse, a wildly inaccurate set of costings which because they are printed seem legitimate to some when they are clearly not or nothing at all?
Both are pretty rubbish in my opinion.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:02 - Jun 18 with 1184 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 13:46 - Jun 18 by StokieBlue |
You've hit the nail on the head here.
It's easy to grab the headlines with something like this and then roll back a few days later knowing that the vast majority won't be paying enough attention to notice the backtracking and it won't be in the interests of whoever runs their social media news feeds to tell them.
SB |
Here's another one.
Trump has just posted this:
Crime "way up". Yet latest figures show it's at a 30 year low!
But he'll be blindly supported by all his followers. Makes my blood boil. | |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:08 - Jun 18 with 1181 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:02 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
Here's another one.
Trump has just posted this:
Crime "way up". Yet latest figures show it's at a 30 year low!
But he'll be blindly supported by all his followers. Makes my blood boil. |
Apparently, we should engage in debate with the believers and peddlers of this rubbish.
There is no engaging with people who lie or desperately need the lies to keep their beliefs. It's like trying to have a scientific discussion with Creationists. |  |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:14 - Jun 18 with 1171 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:02 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
Here's another one.
Trump has just posted this:
Crime "way up". Yet latest figures show it's at a 30 year low!
But he'll be blindly supported by all his followers. Makes my blood boil. |
If he was a more intelligent man I would say that he has deliberately mixed a truth with a lie in order to try and legitamise the lie.
He's clearly not that clever though so he probably actually believes all the points in the statement which makes it worse.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:15 - Jun 18 with 1163 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:08 - Jun 18 by Darth_Koont |
Apparently, we should engage in debate with the believers and peddlers of this rubbish.
There is no engaging with people who lie or desperately need the lies to keep their beliefs. It's like trying to have a scientific discussion with Creationists. |
One should always engage in debate and challenge nonsense.
If it’s not challenged it will grow and spread. Just because it’s tiresome and annoying it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:20 - Jun 18 with 1161 views | DanTheMan |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:15 - Jun 18 by StokieBlue |
One should always engage in debate and challenge nonsense.
If it’s not challenged it will grow and spread. Just because it’s tiresome and annoying it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done.
SB |
It's not even that, it's that it doesn't matter what you say, it does not matter if you can prove without a shadow of a doubt it's a blatant lie, they'll just continue on regardless.
Take that tweet for example, it's obviously a complete fabrication. But it does not matter, because if you challenge it they'll just double down on it being a mainstream media lie or something else. This is Populism as it's absolute "finest". The truth no longer matters, it's all about getting people's emotions going. |  |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:26 - Jun 18 with 1154 views | jeera |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 13:15 - Jun 18 by Swansea_Blue |
And that's another thing. They seem to be prepared to do something to save their own skin, but shouldn't housing be high up on the agenda irrespective of which group of voters it might attract?
Where's the vision, where's the responsibility, where's the leadership? |
Yes. It would be nice if someone addressed these issues because it's the right thing to do.
To actually try to help the people they represent instead of worrying about looking good for votes. |  |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:29 - Jun 18 with 1144 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 15:20 - Jun 18 by DanTheMan |
It's not even that, it's that it doesn't matter what you say, it does not matter if you can prove without a shadow of a doubt it's a blatant lie, they'll just continue on regardless.
Take that tweet for example, it's obviously a complete fabrication. But it does not matter, because if you challenge it they'll just double down on it being a mainstream media lie or something else. This is Populism as it's absolute "finest". The truth no longer matters, it's all about getting people's emotions going. |
Totally agree.
However if the lies and fake news aren't challenged then you have no chance of stopping it. At least challenging it means there is always the chance that more sensible times will return.
Otherwise pretty much all is lost and that's a really depressing thought.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 16:01 - Jun 18 with 1113 views | No9 |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 14:41 - Jun 18 by StokieBlue |
I think quite a few people said something.
However what is worse, a wildly inaccurate set of costings which because they are printed seem legitimate to some when they are clearly not or nothing at all?
Both are pretty rubbish in my opinion.
SB |
They are, as you say, pretty rubbish but the faithful will believe what they want to.
I listened to the bloke from the IFS damn them both but what h said was it was easy to rubbish the oposiiton because they hadn't said how they would fund it,whereas the party of government were actually misleading the people by not actually saying anything about their plans and got support for it from their media.
Whereas the first gets shot down because someone sits down & does the maths the other is actually worse because it makes no attempt to provide any costings which could be analysed - in the commercial world you most certainly would not get away with the second ecen if you argued with he first they were wrong. | | | |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 16:12 - Jun 18 with 1103 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 16:01 - Jun 18 by No9 |
They are, as you say, pretty rubbish but the faithful will believe what they want to.
I listened to the bloke from the IFS damn them both but what h said was it was easy to rubbish the oposiiton because they hadn't said how they would fund it,whereas the party of government were actually misleading the people by not actually saying anything about their plans and got support for it from their media.
Whereas the first gets shot down because someone sits down & does the maths the other is actually worse because it makes no attempt to provide any costings which could be analysed - in the commercial world you most certainly would not get away with the second ecen if you argued with he first they were wrong. |
Is it worse though? If something is published then many people will deem it to be official and correct regardless of what the IFS says. Others won't be able to check the figures themselves. People still vehemently believe the numbers in the costing document even though they have been analysed and discounted.
Publishing something lends credibility which is hard to remove when it's wrong - that's the problem we have now with all the fake news.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 16:40 - Jun 18 with 1081 views | No9 |
| Nothing on May's lie and magic money tree? on 16:12 - Jun 18 by StokieBlue |
Is it worse though? If something is published then many people will deem it to be official and correct regardless of what the IFS says. Others won't be able to check the figures themselves. People still vehemently believe the numbers in the costing document even though they have been analysed and discounted.
Publishing something lends credibility which is hard to remove when it's wrong - that's the problem we have now with all the fake news.
SB |
In the commercial (real) world a costed proposal would be argued about and finally agreed or rejected.
A non costed proposal would see the proposer disqualified.
If the tories conduct business with their contractors / suppliers as they have the public in this matter then it is hardly surprising some contractors / suppliers go bust & others rip off the taxpayer. | | | |
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