| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump 08:57 - Nov 19 with 1983 views | Steve_M |
If anything nefarious occurred, and that is still unproven, then it may be impossible to tell how much that affected the vote. However for the government, opposition and most of the media to largely ignore a growing body of evidence for something that proved so devisive and will have implications for decades is very odd:
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/16/why-britain-needs-its-own-mueller/
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:12 - Nov 19 with 1942 views | itfcjoe |
A fascinating read - can someone spell out in simple terms why Brexit is good for the Russians? Presumably just weakening the EU.
Does feel like Putin is taking over the world from inside the Kremlin |  |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:18 - Nov 19 with 1933 views | Steve_M |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:12 - Nov 19 by itfcjoe |
A fascinating read - can someone spell out in simple terms why Brexit is good for the Russians? Presumably just weakening the EU.
Does feel like Putin is taking over the world from inside the Kremlin |
Yes, basically. Anything that weakens the West is good in his eyes, this is a man who thinks the collapse of the Soviet Union was a great tragedy. More specifically, a weaker, less united West is less able to impose sanctions and for all the bluster that sanctions are making Russia stronger the Magnitsky Act is greatly problematic to wealthy Russians with money from, err, interesting sources. | |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:19 - Nov 19 with 1931 views | StokieBlue |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:12 - Nov 19 by itfcjoe |
A fascinating read - can someone spell out in simple terms why Brexit is good for the Russians? Presumably just weakening the EU.
Does feel like Putin is taking over the world from inside the Kremlin |
Russia has had some success being ahead of the curve in social media manipulation but that's known about now and will be curtailed. They have also been shown up recently with the Salisbury episode.
I think it feels a bit like the opposite to you. A country that knows it's becoming increasingly irrelevant due to 50 years of mismanaging it's economy is desperately trying to remain relevant. It's basically only relevant militarily now and it's going to slip down that pecking order as well over the next few decades.
A similar argument could be made for the UK and Brexit with regards to trying to remain relevant.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:20 - Nov 19 with 1924 views | WeWereZombies |
Hmmmm, Leave.EU's conduct doesn't sound very British, does it? |  |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:56 - Nov 19 with 1891 views | caught-in-limbo |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:12 - Nov 19 by itfcjoe |
A fascinating read - can someone spell out in simple terms why Brexit is good for the Russians? Presumably just weakening the EU.
Does feel like Putin is taking over the world from inside the Kremlin |
Contrary to what some on this site believe, I don't speak for the Kremlin, Moscow or even Uncle Vlad himself.
I'm interested in geopolitics though, and during the time I've been posting on here, probably around 12 years, I've immersed myself in all the hot geopolitical topics of the day. That of course has meant getting an understanding of what's going on in Libya, the Middle East, North Korea, Brexit and most recently Russia - sadly, because my reading is not restricted to UK sources, this has meant that I have been labelled an apologist or troll for every country or leader put forward by the UK press and government as Monster of the Month.
But to answer your question:
Russia has a very heavy hydrocarbon based economy. If Russia can't sell its gas, the fragility of its economy is there for all to see. It's for that reason that the West is trying to source an alternative to Russian gas for Europe, Russia's biggest single market. Russia needs this European market to hold its economy together and until Syria is broken up and Middle Eastern gas is available via Turkey, Europe needs Russian gas.
In my opinion, this explains why the West is hell-bent on breaking up Syria, and why Russia (since late 2015) has been so keen to prevent that happening.
So Russia benefits from a friendly and united Europe. Putin even said last week (to my surprise) that he even approved of an EU Army - I certainly don't!
Russia like China wants trading partners. They don't care who they deal with as long as there is payment. We have the same ethics-free policies towards Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. Russia doesn't want wars because they wouldn't stand a chance in a combined assault from US and NATO forces, and that's before you include CENTCOM and any future EU Army thrown into the mix.
The West is not looking for a war either, but via its sabre-rattling and constant demonisation of Russia, it's forcing them into another economy-crippling arms race. Understandably, the West wants a 1990's Russia where its resources can be plundered by West-friendly oligarchs and the country left powerless against a hegemonic west.
So, in my view, and it'll be a minority view on this site, Russia does not benefit from Brexit or a fractured Europe in any way. Clearly, it's not what the media in the UK (or in Spain for that matter) is telling you, so it'll be dismissed as a Kremlin press release by the usual Russophobes who post here.
I hope that helps you form an opinion in your search for an answer to your question. |  |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:08 - Nov 19 with 1879 views | giant_stow |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:56 - Nov 19 by caught-in-limbo |
Contrary to what some on this site believe, I don't speak for the Kremlin, Moscow or even Uncle Vlad himself.
I'm interested in geopolitics though, and during the time I've been posting on here, probably around 12 years, I've immersed myself in all the hot geopolitical topics of the day. That of course has meant getting an understanding of what's going on in Libya, the Middle East, North Korea, Brexit and most recently Russia - sadly, because my reading is not restricted to UK sources, this has meant that I have been labelled an apologist or troll for every country or leader put forward by the UK press and government as Monster of the Month.
But to answer your question:
Russia has a very heavy hydrocarbon based economy. If Russia can't sell its gas, the fragility of its economy is there for all to see. It's for that reason that the West is trying to source an alternative to Russian gas for Europe, Russia's biggest single market. Russia needs this European market to hold its economy together and until Syria is broken up and Middle Eastern gas is available via Turkey, Europe needs Russian gas.
In my opinion, this explains why the West is hell-bent on breaking up Syria, and why Russia (since late 2015) has been so keen to prevent that happening.
So Russia benefits from a friendly and united Europe. Putin even said last week (to my surprise) that he even approved of an EU Army - I certainly don't!
Russia like China wants trading partners. They don't care who they deal with as long as there is payment. We have the same ethics-free policies towards Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. Russia doesn't want wars because they wouldn't stand a chance in a combined assault from US and NATO forces, and that's before you include CENTCOM and any future EU Army thrown into the mix.
The West is not looking for a war either, but via its sabre-rattling and constant demonisation of Russia, it's forcing them into another economy-crippling arms race. Understandably, the West wants a 1990's Russia where its resources can be plundered by West-friendly oligarchs and the country left powerless against a hegemonic west.
So, in my view, and it'll be a minority view on this site, Russia does not benefit from Brexit or a fractured Europe in any way. Clearly, it's not what the media in the UK (or in Spain for that matter) is telling you, so it'll be dismissed as a Kremlin press release by the usual Russophobes who post here.
I hope that helps you form an opinion in your search for an answer to your question. |
Why would the EU being broken up or weakened stop Russia selling gas to it's countries? If anything, a politically weakened Europe would be less able to take collective action to seek alternative sources of energy. |  |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:08 - Nov 19 with 1881 views | StokieBlue |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:56 - Nov 19 by caught-in-limbo |
Contrary to what some on this site believe, I don't speak for the Kremlin, Moscow or even Uncle Vlad himself.
I'm interested in geopolitics though, and during the time I've been posting on here, probably around 12 years, I've immersed myself in all the hot geopolitical topics of the day. That of course has meant getting an understanding of what's going on in Libya, the Middle East, North Korea, Brexit and most recently Russia - sadly, because my reading is not restricted to UK sources, this has meant that I have been labelled an apologist or troll for every country or leader put forward by the UK press and government as Monster of the Month.
But to answer your question:
Russia has a very heavy hydrocarbon based economy. If Russia can't sell its gas, the fragility of its economy is there for all to see. It's for that reason that the West is trying to source an alternative to Russian gas for Europe, Russia's biggest single market. Russia needs this European market to hold its economy together and until Syria is broken up and Middle Eastern gas is available via Turkey, Europe needs Russian gas.
In my opinion, this explains why the West is hell-bent on breaking up Syria, and why Russia (since late 2015) has been so keen to prevent that happening.
So Russia benefits from a friendly and united Europe. Putin even said last week (to my surprise) that he even approved of an EU Army - I certainly don't!
Russia like China wants trading partners. They don't care who they deal with as long as there is payment. We have the same ethics-free policies towards Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. Russia doesn't want wars because they wouldn't stand a chance in a combined assault from US and NATO forces, and that's before you include CENTCOM and any future EU Army thrown into the mix.
The West is not looking for a war either, but via its sabre-rattling and constant demonisation of Russia, it's forcing them into another economy-crippling arms race. Understandably, the West wants a 1990's Russia where its resources can be plundered by West-friendly oligarchs and the country left powerless against a hegemonic west.
So, in my view, and it'll be a minority view on this site, Russia does not benefit from Brexit or a fractured Europe in any way. Clearly, it's not what the media in the UK (or in Spain for that matter) is telling you, so it'll be dismissed as a Kremlin press release by the usual Russophobes who post here.
I hope that helps you form an opinion in your search for an answer to your question. |
So, after your summary I have two questions:
1) Do you believe Russia interfered in the US election and subsequent votes in Europe such as brexit?
2) Why does a broken up Syria make it easier to get gas from places like Iran? Any pipeline could have been built with a united Syria - they wouldn't have objected given the income.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:15 - Nov 19 with 1864 views | caught-in-limbo |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:08 - Nov 19 by giant_stow |
Why would the EU being broken up or weakened stop Russia selling gas to it's countries? If anything, a politically weakened Europe would be less able to take collective action to seek alternative sources of energy. |
Gas gets to countries via pipelines. Do you expect the Russians to build a separate pipe from the Russian boarder to each European country that wants it? What happens if all countries on Russia's border decide not to buy or transport Russian gas but other countries do? Of course they need a friendly and united Europe. | |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:21 - Nov 19 with 1857 views | giant_stow |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:15 - Nov 19 by caught-in-limbo |
Gas gets to countries via pipelines. Do you expect the Russians to build a separate pipe from the Russian boarder to each European country that wants it? What happens if all countries on Russia's border decide not to buy or transport Russian gas but other countries do? Of course they need a friendly and united Europe. |
Aren't the Russians still supplying gas to Ukraine, despite war? I accept that I could be wrong there!
If Europe breaks up politically, will all the current pipelines be destroyed? Will everyone forgo the gas they've been buying and go cold just to spite their neighbours?
To me, it seems the real threat to Russia is alternative fuels and perhaps there's not a lot they can do about that, so gas will be supplied until it can be replaced irrespective of geopolitics. It'll be replaced more quickly with European and global consensus, so Russia tries to destroy that. | |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:28 - Nov 19 with 1841 views | caught-in-limbo |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:21 - Nov 19 by giant_stow |
Aren't the Russians still supplying gas to Ukraine, despite war? I accept that I could be wrong there!
If Europe breaks up politically, will all the current pipelines be destroyed? Will everyone forgo the gas they've been buying and go cold just to spite their neighbours?
To me, it seems the real threat to Russia is alternative fuels and perhaps there's not a lot they can do about that, so gas will be supplied until it can be replaced irrespective of geopolitics. It'll be replaced more quickly with European and global consensus, so Russia tries to destroy that. |
They were until about 2 weeks ago. Belarus were continuing to supply Ukraine. But Russia has finally put an end to that following Ukrainian neo-nazi attacks on Russian Orthodox churches in the Ukraine.
"To me, it seems the real threat to Russia is alternative fuels and perhaps there's not a lot they can do about that, so gas will be supplied until it can be replaced irrespective of geopolitics. It'll be replaced more quickly with European and global consensus, so Russia tries to destroy that."
Well, that is certainly one of the goals from the recent climate change meetings. But gas supplies are dirt cheap compared to alternative non-fossil fuels presently, so Russia and other hydrocarbon based economies have nothing a fear for a while. | |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 12:29 - Nov 19 with 1767 views | No9 |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:15 - Nov 19 by caught-in-limbo |
Gas gets to countries via pipelines. Do you expect the Russians to build a separate pipe from the Russian boarder to each European country that wants it? What happens if all countries on Russia's border decide not to buy or transport Russian gas but other countries do? Of course they need a friendly and united Europe. |
There are numerous pipelines across Europe/Scandinavia/Middle east & Russia et al.
The investents in these pipelines is international. The new fields in Russia & the old block are getting further away and the terrain is difficult. It is becoming difficult to find parties willing to invest with constrution costs being so high and return on investment a long way off. |  | | |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 13:53 - Nov 19 with 1735 views | Bluesquid |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 09:18 - Nov 19 by Steve_M |
Yes, basically. Anything that weakens the West is good in his eyes, this is a man who thinks the collapse of the Soviet Union was a great tragedy. More specifically, a weaker, less united West is less able to impose sanctions and for all the bluster that sanctions are making Russia stronger the Magnitsky Act is greatly problematic to wealthy Russians with money from, err, interesting sources. |
Yeah and it's on so many levels aswell, frightening stuff.
My little ankle biters were in tears yesterday when i threw out one of their favorite cartoons and yelled at them "No more Putin propaganda in this house!"
"Anthony Glees, an intelligence expert from The University of Buckingham told The Times: 'Masha is feisty, even rather nasty, but also plucky.
'She punches above her weight. It's not far-fetched to see her as Putinesque.'"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/childrens-show-is-propaganda-for-putin-say-cr | | | |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 13:55 - Nov 19 with 1725 views | StokieBlue |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 13:53 - Nov 19 by Bluesquid |
Yeah and it's on so many levels aswell, frightening stuff.
My little ankle biters were in tears yesterday when i threw out one of their favorite cartoons and yelled at them "No more Putin propaganda in this house!"
"Anthony Glees, an intelligence expert from The University of Buckingham told The Times: 'Masha is feisty, even rather nasty, but also plucky.
'She punches above her weight. It's not far-fetched to see her as Putinesque.'"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/childrens-show-is-propaganda-for-putin-say-cr |
That's silly.
It's an annoying cartoon but there is nothing particularly wrong with it.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 14:07 - Nov 19 with 1696 views | itfcjoe |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 13:55 - Nov 19 by StokieBlue |
That's silly.
It's an annoying cartoon but there is nothing particularly wrong with it.
SB |
Having your 2 year old constantly saying 'Mat the Bear' make sit particularly wrong for me | |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 14:17 - Nov 19 with 1687 views | Bluesquid |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 10:08 - Nov 19 by StokieBlue |
So, after your summary I have two questions:
1) Do you believe Russia interfered in the US election and subsequent votes in Europe such as brexit?
2) Why does a broken up Syria make it easier to get gas from places like Iran? Any pipeline could have been built with a united Syria - they wouldn't have objected given the income.
SB |
"Any pipeline could have been built with a united Syria - they wouldn't have objected given the income. "
According to this article Assad rejected a proposed pipeline plan with Qatar opting instead for a $10 billion pipeline plan with Iran.
"These strategic concerns, motivated by fear of expanding Iranian influence, impacted Syria primarily in relation to pipeline geopolitics. In 2009 - the same year former French foreign minister Dumas alleges the British began planning operations in Syria - Assad refused to sign a proposed agreement with Qatar that would run a pipeline from the latter's North field, contiguous with Iran's South Pars field, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and on to Turkey, with a view to supply European markets - albeit crucially bypassing Russia. An Agence France-Presse report claimed Assad's rationale was "to protect the interests of [his] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas".
Instead, the following year, Assad pursued negotiations for an alternative $10 billion pipeline plan with Iran, across Iraq to Syria, that would also potentially allow Iran to supply gas to Europe from its South Pars field shared with Qatar. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the project was signed in July 2012 - just as Syria's civil war was spreading to Damascus and Aleppo - and earlier this year Iraq signed a framework agreement for construction of the gas pipelines. "
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical | | | |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 14:19 - Nov 19 with 1680 views | XYZ |
There's a number of independent investigative journalists in the UK and US who are gradually joining all the dots.
And then all the information gets passed to Mueller & Co.
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 14:29 - Nov 19 with 1659 views | Steve_M |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 13:53 - Nov 19 by Bluesquid |
Yeah and it's on so many levels aswell, frightening stuff.
My little ankle biters were in tears yesterday when i threw out one of their favorite cartoons and yelled at them "No more Putin propaganda in this house!"
"Anthony Glees, an intelligence expert from The University of Buckingham told The Times: 'Masha is feisty, even rather nasty, but also plucky.
'She punches above her weight. It's not far-fetched to see her as Putinesque.'"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/childrens-show-is-propaganda-for-putin-say-cr |
Well one seemingly daft over-reaction definitely means there is no Russian case to answer here. | |
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| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 14:36 - Nov 19 with 1644 views | Bluesquid |
| More Brexit: NYRB on the questions of financing and links to Russia and Trump on 14:29 - Nov 19 by Steve_M |
Well one seemingly daft over-reaction definitely means there is no Russian case to answer here. |
Oh come on Steve, don't be too hard on him, he's one of our "intelligence experts". | | | |
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